Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3

[Lalalacasbah]

Re: handkerchiefs and hip bag…
I’ve been looking over that today and have spotted a few things.

According to this article, the hip bag had a hole in the bottom and a few other smaller holes. The image attached is from the TMPD DVD on the case but it is not clarified whether this is the real bag or a replica.
Regardless, if you look at the white circle you can see a hole in the bottom. Other circles show smaller holes:
View attachment 531596
From memory the knife was slightly too big for the bag, so I’m wondering if, after it slicing a hole in the bottom, the killer used a handkerchief to cover the end of the knife to prevent more holes and that’s why it ended up with a slice in it. Rather than using the handkerchief as a specific method to grip the knife to stab reminiscent of fish mongers and certain Asian countries, it was just due to trying to protect the bag from being damaged further. I’m neither here nor there with this, just what I noticed.

And now just on the hip bag itself, I was trying to see if I could find who exactly manufactured the bag. It was said to be made down in Osaka and sold up in Tokyo with 2850 units made, but I couldn’t find the name of who made it exactly from my searches. I just so happened to do an image search on that particular style of bag, and what came up were almost exact replicas… all being sold as military special operations equipment in Japan. It seems this style of bag, though bought in Japan, may have been sold under military equipment. See screenshot:View attachment 531595

Nice sleuthing and good catch @Incoherent! Amazing!!! Military again... This case needs international attention to get pressure needed to push the DNA and international processes along.

Might be a bit out there and maybe already done but @FacelessPodcast I know you've done so much hard work on your articles and podcast, have you ever thought about approachin any of the big US stations that do the true crimes shows (20/20, Dateline, so many of them, etc.) with your work, findings and theories? I feel since a Japan crime many folks (even crime buffs) I've mentioned this story to have never heard about it!!

Those shows have a large US based audience and a viewer might recognized something familiar, ie: clothes, hip bag, or person fitting the profiles, friend of friend, son of an acquaintance/friend that rings a bell... something/anything!

 

[Deleted member 347117]

I strongly believe I found out who the POI is. Actually, I’m thinking about 2 boys in particular, maybe 3 but I’m not convinced about the third one at all. I’m leaning towards one a little bit more, considering all the informations that I gathered while attentively reading the threads. If that’s him, then his name is indeed kind of common and it’s very hard to find concrete informations about him without using the right tools or having connections with experienced people who could have access to the background of anyone. But, there are still some “handcrafted” ways to find things out, if you’re cunning enough.

Now, I don’t know what can be done with that. I believe it’s been a year since Nicolas uncovered some kind of truth, a promising lead at least. How can things move forward now? What can be done? Is being very patient part of a strategy?

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Might be a bit out there and maybe already done but @FacelessPodcast I know you've done so much hard work on your articles and podcast, have you ever thought about approachin any of the big US stations that do the true crimes shows (20/20, Dateline, so many of them, etc.) with your work, findings and theories? I feel since a Japan crime many folks (even crime buffs) I've mentioned this story to have never heard about it!!

Those shows have a large US based audience and a viewer might recognized something familiar, ie: clothes, hip bag, or person fitting the profiles, friend of friend, son of an acquaintance/friend that rings a bell... something/anything!

I wish it were that simple, @Lalalacasbah. I can't get into details about what I'm doing in an effort to get this off the ground. But you can rest assured that I'm trying my best. On this front, and on the subject of the POI, a few points to the thread in general. From here on in, I'll keep mention of the POI to a minimum / focus my replies to posts only on the case itself.

1. For those here that think I'm 'trying to control the narrative' or that I'm 'holding on to the story'. It's flat-out wrong to the point of being grossly offensive. This isn't about me, nor is it about trying to make money. Not that I need to explain myself to any one of you but I can assure you that any money involved is negligible. Beyond that, if anyone genuinely thinks that I would put my own interests above that of Setsuko Miyazawa, that's deeply saddening. I started the thread to share information and ideas surrounding the case. I continue with my efforts, despite having very little time or resources to easily dedicate to it, because of her. Because of the Miyazawas. I would respectfully request you all refrain from making ad hominem attacks against me, whether directly or through implication, even if you find my silences or actions frustrating or hard to understand. Not only are they against TOC, it makes it harder for me to return to WS.

2. For those wondering why it isn't just a case of approaching the TMPD with a name of the POI. If it were that simple, it would have been done long ago. I would hope you give me enough credit not to think me stupid enough to not have considered this. But none of you know the ins and the outs of my conversations with the TMPD beyond what I have shared. If I thought this would lead to the killer being investigated, I would have done it. My strong belief, based on personal experience, is that approaching the TMPD (in the very specific format that they would ever actually read) with the name of a POI will go nowhere if it falls outside of certain parameters.

3. Ultimately, I respect this group a great deal. But you are, mostly, anonymous. Yet you all know my name. Please understand that trust is very difficult in my position. I am not going to be explaining the ins and the outs of my investigation, nor am I going to be sharing details that I am unable to with any one of you. I'm sorry to those that find this frustrating. But this will never outweigh the promise I made to Setsuko to do my best to find the man responsible. My strong belief is that the best way to do this is to get the evidence we need so that the TMPD cannot ignore it. So, for the last time, I am working hard to make it a reality.

Apologies for the long post, guys. That is all I'm going to say on this.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I strongly believe I found out who the POI is. Actually, I’m thinking about 2 boys in particular, maybe 3 but I’m not convinced about the third one at all. I’m leaning towards one a little bit more, considering all the informations that I gathered while attentively reading the threads. If that’s him, then his name is indeed kind of common and it’s very hard to find concrete informations about him without using the right tools or having connections with experienced people who could have access to the background of anyone. But, there are still some “handcrafted” ways to find things out, if you’re cunning enough.

Now, I don’t know what can be done with that. I believe it’s been a year since Nicolas uncovered some kind of truth, a promising lead at least. How can things move forward now? What can be done? Is being very patient part of a strategy?

Welcome to the thread, @tenko. As per my last post, I'm not going to be sharing information about the POI, nor am I going to be confirming or denying anything. This is not to be vague or some sort of edgelord. I am doing what I believe will have the greatest chance of a positive outcome.

 

[Deleted member 347117]

Welcome to the thread, @tenko. As per my last post, I'm not going to be sharing information about the POI, nor am I going to be confirming or denying anything. This is not to be vague or some sort of edgelord. I am doing what I believe will have the greatest chance of a positive outcome.

Sure, I have read attentively your last comment. I wasn’t asking for any information regarding the POI tho, just asking about what can be done, because it seems to me that time flies by and yet nothing moves forward. But maybe it is just an illusion, because we cannot see what’s happening underneath your investigation. I wish you to be the great White Knight in this case and uncover the truth, put the right person in front of their responsibilities (not without the help of other knights, of course). Allowing light to come back and prevail over the forces of evil.

 

[Kittybunny]

I don't think DNA can tell you much about age? It's not my area of expertise so happy to give way to others who know more. I think the TMPD theory about him being a momma's boy was based on the other clues taken a whole. I'm assuming they must have evidence they haven't shared, though. Just one or two years ago, they publicly revised the killer's age range down from 15-40 to 15-24. I can't imagine this was done on guesswork.

Sooooo to re-focus the thread conversation back in a non-POI specific manner, I’m going to share some general info on estimating age using DNA that I found, with the caveat that I’m not an expert, obviously. But it does seem that you can possibly use DNA to estimate age. It’s more of a biological age than chronological age, but one can imagine that the younger you are the closer the two are, since disease and environmental factors haven’t taken their toll yet.

“One method scientists use to measure biological age examines the epigenome, which contains a record of changes to a cell’s DNA and DNA-associated proteins. Epigenetic clocks are tools used by researchers to quantify biological age using a set of biological markers.”

https://www.nia.nih.gov/news/age-estimated-changes-dna-can-help-predict-health-outcomes-mortality-older-adults#:~:text=One%20method%20scientists%20use%20to,a%20set%20of%20biological%20markers.

Overall, fascinating!

 

[Lalalacasbah]

If the killer had a traditional Japanese homemade style type meal of beans, wouldn't that signal he is local and not eating on the base or American type food?

I have zero knowledge of base life, so sorry if a stupid question! I do not know how it works on a base...I guess I would guess families may cook/eat local cuisine where you are posted but would the killer/killer's family still cook that for dinner let's say in their home?

Or did he go to a friend's house for dinner before the crime?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I strongly believe I found out who the POI is. Actually, I’m thinking about 2 boys in particular, maybe 3 but I’m not convinced about the third one at all. I’m leaning towards one a little bit more, considering all the informations that I gathered while attentively reading the threads. If that’s him, then his name is indeed kind of common and it’s very hard to find concrete informations about him without using the right tools or having connections with experienced people who could have access to the background of anyone. But, there are still some “handcrafted” ways to find things out, if you’re cunning enough.

Now, I don’t know what can be done with that. I believe it’s been a year since Nicolas uncovered some kind of truth, a promising lead at least. How can things move forward now? What can be done? Is being very patient part of a strategy?

Sounds like you got some good sleuthing in! Hard to do any digging if the name is common for sure. Hoping something is found

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Sure, I have read attentively your last comment. I wasn’t asking for any information regarding the POI tho, just asking about what can be done, because it seems to me that time flies by and yet nothing moves forward. But maybe it is just an illusion, because we cannot see what’s happening underneath your investigation. I wish you to be the great White Knight in this case and uncover the truth, put the right person in front of their responsibilities (not without the help of other knights, of course). Allowing light to come back and prevail over the forces of evil.

Haha I don't know about white knight but thank you, @tenko. I will say that I agree with your previous comment on the POI in the sense that a LOT can be found out about him if you know where to look. I think a considerable amount of circumstance can be accumulated against him. But that is very different to concrete evidence. Until that time, he's innocent until proven otherwise.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Sooooo to re-focus the thread conversation back in a non-POI specific manner, I’m going to share some general info on estimating age using DNA that I found, with the caveat that I’m not an expert, obviously. But it does seem that you can possibly use DNA to estimate age. It’s more of a biological age than chronological age, but one can imagine that the younger you are the closer the two are, since disease and environmental factors haven’t taken their toll yet.

“One method scientists use to measure biological age examines the epigenome, which contains a record of changes to a cell’s DNA and DNA-associated proteins. Epigenetic clocks are tools used by researchers to quantify biological age using a set of biological markers.”

https://www.nia.nih.gov/news/age-estimated-changes-dna-can-help-predict-health-outcomes-mortality-older-adults#:~:text=One%20method%20scientists%20use%20to,a%20set%20of%20biological%20markers.

Overall, fascinating!

That IS interesting. The TMPD is a curious contradiction in terms of where they are technologically / culturally. On the one hand, they seem like an archaic and outmoded force; they require outside press requests to come via FAX, they communicate with Japanese press via the problematic kisha club system, they prop up a justice infrastructure with a 99.9999% conviction rate, etc etc. That's to say nothing of the lack of a legal framework for DNA investigative techniques outside of the 1:1 comparison to the existing criminal database -- the Miyazawa murders being the most notable exemplar, in my view. On the other hand, they have put an inordinate amount of personnel on this case across 24 years and still have a team of 30-40 dedicated detectives on this case. That would never happen in the UK, the US, or Spain (the nations which I have direct experience in). I'm sure in many other places it would be a similar story. They are in the conversation for the largest police force on earth, and I would imagine they are certainly the best-funded. I also know that they are starting to open up new technological angles, young forensic officers are seeking secondments / placements in the US and abroad at prestigious labs. If you look at their police sciences campus in Chiba, they evidently have all the tools to meet complex major crimes in a modern, sophisticated manner.

So, all that to say; on the one hand, I have my concerns that the killer's DNA is simply sleeping in a chiller somewhere and those answers, which we could glean very quickly but for a change in the laws, will be denied to Setsuko given that the speed of change is glacial in Japan. On the other hand, I know directly how hard they have worked on this case and I've never seen anything like it. Save for the investigative areas in which I think they have overlooked, it would not shock me if they have something very solid for them concluding his age was 15-24 on the night of the murders beyond simply betting he was a student based on his clothes and backpack having highlighter pen traces. Perhaps even something like your posted link, given that it doesn't directly infringe any privacy laws.

In short, super interesting! Let's hope they're on the right track.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

If the killer had a traditional Japanese homemade style type meal of beans, wouldn't that signal he is local and not eating on the base or American type food?

I have zero knowledge of base life, so sorry if a stupid question! I do not know how it works on a base...I guess I would guess families may cook/eat local cuisine where you are posted but would the killer/killer's family still cook that for dinner let's say in their home?

Or did he go to a friend's house for dinner before the crime?

This doesn't add up for me. Firstly, we know that USAF members / familial dependents can easily eat at the many restaurants in the local area around base. Not only that, many of the establishments actively court their custom. So, the killer could've been Japanese, or he could've been American and eating in Japan, or he could've been from Tuvalu for all we know. I don't think the contents of someone's stomach tell you much other than what he felt like eating anywhere in the last 30ish hours.

As you say, he might've eaten dinner at a friend's house (though in my own anecdotal experience, home visits in Japan are rare-- @Incoherent can talk more eloquently to that, no doubt). And I guess, just to play devil's advocate, he wouldn't even necessarily have to have been in Japan to eat that food. He could've been anywhere in Asia and then jumped on a plane. For all we know, he could've been on a flight from Los Angeles and simply elected the Asian menu, washing his sesame spinach down with a Singapore Sling.

RE: the USAF base, he's huge -- some 12,000 people give or take. There are countless eateries / canteens. A Subway, even. On youtube you can find videos uploaded by former students going on excursions off-base or into Tokyo. Basically, in that city back in 2000, there are 31 million people. I don't think the contents of his stomach tell us much about where he's from per se.

 

[SteveL]

I strongly believe I found out who the POI is. Actually, I’m thinking about 2 boys in particular, maybe 3 but I’m not convinced about the third one at all. I’m leaning towards one a little bit more, considering all the informations that I gathered while attentively reading the threads. If that’s him, then his name is indeed kind of common and it’s very hard to find concrete informations about him without using the right tools or having connections with experienced people who could have access to the background of anyone. But, there are still some “handcrafted” ways to find things out, if you’re cunning enough.

Now, I don’t know what can be done with that. I believe it’s been a year since Nicolas uncovered some kind of truth, a promising lead at least. How can things move forward now? What can be done? Is being very patient part of a strategy?

In regards to the POIS common name

Search engine algorithms are designed to be intuitive and analytic. When doing a search, the engine defaults to what is commonly searched for by the public, what they “believe” you SHOULD be searching for, and what they think you ARE searching for.

Early on, my POIS common last name was indeed a problem. He would pop up several pages down. I had to filter through quite a few people sharing the name to eventually garner some nuggets.

However, as time has passed, he’s now appearing sooner on my search engines. This is due to a few factors. 1. Others are searching the same name. 2. Myself and others are narrowing down the search by focusing on one specific person with the name. 3. The search engine begins to “learn” who I specifically am searching.

My advice regarding search engines is to search with your POIS name and just a couple words you know about your POI. For instance, a great start would be “POI Yokota.” Then, you branch out with other searches “POI ‘residence’,” etc. But don’t try too many terms with one search. It can overwhelm and water down results. Gradually, the search engine will get to “know” your POI.

What I’ve personally found enlightening is my POI was initially a real pain in the arse finding. However, now he’s popping up sooner in my search results. Individually, my searches can’t illicit that response. That’s coming from a collective search. So it appears many of us share this particular POI.

 

[Deleted member 347117]

In regards to the POIS common name

Search engine algorithms are designed to be intuitive and analytic. When doing a search, the engine defaults to what is commonly searched for by the public, what they “believe” you SHOULD be searching for, and what they think you ARE searching for.

Early on, my POIS common last name was indeed a problem. He would pop up several pages down. I had to filter through quite a few people sharing the name to eventually garner some nuggets.

However, as time has passed, he’s now appearing sooner on my search engines. This is due to a few factors. 1. Others are searching the same name. 2. Myself and others are narrowing down the search by focusing on one specific person with the name. 3. The search engine begins to “learn” who I specifically am searching.

My advice regarding search engines is to search with your POIS name and just a couple words you know about your POI. For instance, a great start would be “POI Yokota.” Then, you branch out with other searches “POI ‘residence’,” etc. But don’t try too many terms with one search. It can overwhelm and water down results. Gradually, the search engine will get to “know” your POI.

What I’ve personally found enlightening is my POI was initially a real pain in the arse finding. However, now he’s popping up sooner in my search results. Individually, my searches can’t illicit that response. That’s coming from a collective search. So it appears many of us share this particular POI.

You’re right. Thanks for your advices and explanations. I believe I did it this way tho, maybe I need to think about other key words I could insert, hehe.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

This doesn't add up for me. Firstly, we know that USAF members / familial dependents can easily eat at the many restaurants in the local area around base. Not only that, many of the establishments actively court their custom. So, the killer could've been Japanese, or he could've been American and eating in Japan, or he could've been from Tuvalu for all we know. I don't think the contents of someone's stomach tell you much other than what he felt like eating anywhere in the last 30ish hours.

As you say, he might've eaten dinner at a friend's house (though in my own anecdotal experience, home visits in Japan are rare-- @Incoherent can talk more eloquently to that, no doubt). And I guess, just to play devil's advocate, he wouldn't even necessarily have to have been in Japan to eat that food. He could've been anywhere in Asia and then jumped on a plane. For all we know, he could've been on a flight from Los Angeles and simply elected the Asian menu, washing his sesame spinach down with a Singapore Sling.

RE: the USAF base, he's huge -- some 12,000 people give or take. There are countless eateries / canteens. A Subway, even. On youtube you can find videos uploaded by former students going on excursions off-base or into Tokyo. Basically, in that city back in 2000, there are 31 million people. I don't think the contents of his stomach tell us much about where he's from per se.

Gotcha, thanks! Learning so much! Didn't realize home visits are rare although I recall it mentioned on the thread knocking on someone's door is rare. So much to absorb here

Yes maybe @Incoherent can clarify, I got the impression the meal wasn't one typically served in restaurants or somethign bought but was more a home prepared one but what do I know! JMO

 

[Incoherent]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

Gotcha, thanks! Learning so much! Didn't realize home visits are rare although I recall it mentioned on the thread knocking on someone's door is rare. So much to absorb here

Yes maybe @Incoherent can clarify, I got the impression the meal wasn't one typically served in restaurants or somethign bought but was more a home prepared one but what do I know! JMO

The meal eaten by the killer is one that is incredibly common and could be found in any restaurant, and bought fresh in supermarket in Japan too. To me it doesn’t say much about him, just that he was in Japan and ate some Japanese-style food.
It doesn’t indicate that he must be Japanese and cannot be American either for example, because if you were to examine the contents of my stomach and basing that on who I was you’d likely never guess I’m originally from and was raised in a small town in southern England, UK.
To add, being an American doesn’t necessarily mean you’re heading for the mashed potatoes and pork chops (sorry for the generalisation here), especially if you’ve already been raised on Asian-style dishes.

As for eating at a friend’s house during the time period of a few days before December 30th - unlikely. It was a very busy time, offices and companies and closed, families had all gathered and were cleaning and preparing for celebrations, it wouldn’t be usual or appropriate.
To add on here, a person turning up at the Miyazawa’s at 11pm on a Saturday, December 30th, asking to be let inside for whatever reason would be so incredibly rude and inappropriate that even if it was Mikio’s own cousin he still wouldn’t have done it. Let alone some potential piano teacher asking for wages or someone needing the toilet. JMO.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

The meal eaten by the killer is one that is incredibly common and could be found in any restaurant, and bought fresh in supermarket in Japan too. To me it doesn’t say much about him, just that he was in Japan and ate some Japanese-style food.
It doesn’t indicate that he must be Japanese and cannot be American either for example, because if you were to examine the contents of my stomach and basing that on who I was you’d likely never guess I’m originally from and was raised in a small town in southern England, UK.
To add, being an American doesn’t necessarily mean you’re heading for the mashed potatoes and pork chops (sorry for the generalisation here), especially if you’ve already been raised on Asian-style dishes.

As for eating at a friend’s house during the time period of a few days before December 30th - unlikely. It was a very busy time, offices and companies and closed, families had all gathered and were cleaning and preparing for celebrations, it wouldn’t be usual or appropriate.
To add on here, a person turning up at the Miyazawa’s at 11pm on a Saturday, December 30th, asking to be let inside for whatever reason would be so incredibly rude and inappropriate that even if it was Mikio’s own cousin he still wouldn’t have done it. Let alone some potential piano teacher asking for wages or someone needing the toilet. JMO.

Ah ok, thank you. Good to get solid info on the food thing. I had read it was more a homemade meal somewhere but you've clarified it's all over the place so nothing special. I totally get the food doesn't really define this guy unless there was something about the food but there's not! So enough about beans lol

So is this another clue about the killer? That he wasn't with family during these hours and possibly during this celebratory time. I'm guessing it was discussed here with people who know about base curfews. What would a base curfew be and is it different for teens, young adults under 20 let's say?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

What are everyone's thoughts of the killer before and after the crime? Do you all think this was his first time and do you think he killed again after?

Part of me thinks he might want the notoriety or acknowledgement if he killed again after this and would make it known it was "him again".

The other part of me thinks maybe he got spooked with being wounded so bad and went under the radar or led a normal life after getting this out of his system. I'm torn on this.

 

[Deleted member 347117]

What are everyone's thoughts of the killer before and after the crime? Do you all think this was his first time and do you think he killed again after?

Part of me thinks he might want the notoriety or acknowledgement if he killed again after this and would make it known it was "him again".

The other part of me thinks maybe he got spooked with being wounded so bad and went under the radar or led a normal life after getting this out of his system. I'm torn on this.

He’s probably living normally now, trying to stay away from his past actions, thinking he’s in the clear. But I believe what he did is something he still thinks about frequently. Maybe he dreams of it, maybe after 24 years he still fears being caught. Who knows.

 

[Deleted member 347117]

顔なき人
冬夜に消えた
秘密だけ

 

[Deleted member 347117]

Once you commit such a crime, as hard as you try to move on and build a normal life, things can never be normal below the surface. The soul is stained and blackened. Some might live in fear, and to live in fear is not to live at all.