Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3

[FacelessPodcast]

I might be able to get the Yokota 2001 yearbook soon. I’ll give an update.

Great news, pls keep us posted.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

A stir fry?! How have I missed that.

I just edited, apologies. WASN'T about to start making a stir-fry.

 

[atomicsciencegal]

I just edited, apologies. WASN'T about to start making a stir-fry.

Too funny, thank you.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

@Lalalacasbah did you contact the guy selling the sweater to know where he got it from?

No I did not. His picture on the selling site is not him. I did find him on FB (and his selling pic is on there in his photos). There is a photo what looks to be him in his youth with some pals, kinda look like skater style a bit but maybe not. Not fancy dressed like killer, but more worn skater type clothes (that I was used to seeing at my high school in the 90s).

Again, I find it weird the killer would take a light colored sweater and something that is NOT his style - it stands out! I find this a bit perverse even if he did do it out of necessity (wounded). Interesting he didn't just go shirtless with his jacket on.

The seller did attend this boarding school (I think I'm ok to post this public school link), class of 2000 so maybe similar age as killer. Likely no connection whatsoever but that shirt is sad to look at for me regardless

Home

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Wow, This is a great catch, @Lalalacasbah. I think the chances of it being Mikio's are low --just by the numbers-- but you just never know. Given the size of the sweater, the size of it, the label and its condition, in theory, it could've been bundled away somewhere and then ended up in a charity haul recently.

I agree, doubtful THE sweater but it does look like it was stashed somewhere because of the wrinkles. There would be blood stains maybe too. The yellow around the collar would be from sweat I think.

Was it still for sale when you saw it? It was already sold when I clicked on it. At any rate, it belongs with the TMPD for them to eliminate. Or, on the off-chance this contains the killer's forensic material, that could obviously be huge.

I didn't notice last night, ugh I should've noticed. I just checked my screen shots and I don't have one with the product status. Yes, probably easy for TMPD to track down if they wanted and at least rule it out.

He ate with one hand because the other one was injured. I think it probably also informed his choices; he wasn't about to start making a stir-fry with his preferred hand injured.

Oh man.... yes that makes 100% sense! Haha sometimes I don't know where my mind is at on this thread Thanks for your patience everyone while I learn details. Stir-fry eh? haha

 

[Lalalacasbah]

He went to a house with his face covered and a knife in his bag. To me, that's a stronger indicator of a plan to kill than his white shoes / shirt being an indicator of spontaneity. JMO.

Totally a bit of a kill kit but then why white still? Seems bizarre. Maybe he wanted to see the blood on himself?

 

[atomicsciencegal]

Totally a bit of a kill kit but then why white still? Seems bizarre. Maybe he wanted to see the blood on himself?

Or, even though he purchased a knife (and possibly wrapped it in a handkerchief to prevent it from poking another hole in his bag) - he did NOT think that it would come to the point where he would use it. After all, he strangled Rei first.

 

[SteveL]

Re: handkerchiefs and hip bag…
I’ve been looking over that today and have spotted a few things.

According to this article, the hip bag had a hole in the bottom and a few other smaller holes. The image attached is from the TMPD DVD on the case but it is not clarified whether this is the real bag or a replica.
Regardless, if you look at the white circle you can see a hole in the bottom. Other circles show smaller holes:
View attachment 531596
From memory the knife was slightly too big for the bag, so I’m wondering if, after it slicing a hole in the bottom, the killer used a handkerchief to cover the end of the knife to prevent more holes and that’s why it ended up with a slice in it. Rather than using the handkerchief as a specific method to grip the knife to stab reminiscent of fish mongers and certain Asian countries, it was just due to trying to protect the bag from being damaged further. I’m neither here nor there with this, just what I noticed.

And now just on the hip bag itself, I was trying to see if I could find who exactly manufactured the bag. It was said to be made down in Osaka and sold up in Tokyo with 2850 units made, but I couldn’t find the name of who made it exactly from my searches. I just so happened to do an image search on that particular style of bag, and what came up were almost exact replicas… all being sold as military special operations equipment in Japan. It seems this style of bag, though bought in Japan, may have been sold under military equipment. See screenshot:View attachment 531595

When asked about the sand in the bag, the Chief stated "The bag could belong to someone else." Maybe TMPD knew this specific bag belonged to Special Ops forces? The Chief may have been respectfully dismissive acknowledging the bag/sand. Was he also passively suggesting the bag's existence, but ownership by someone else? Most of us acknowledge the killer was the son of a military officer. Is it possible the bag's owner was the killer's father, and the killer "borrowed" it? My father was a US Navy veteran stationed in Viet Nam. I recall several unique military items he owned I would've gladly "borrowed."

It's probable the killer's injuries obtained during the attack required medical attention. It's logical to assume his father attended to his wounds. But, to merely dismiss the killer's father as a military doctor doesn't sufficiently explain the coverup. I don't like when this thread devolves into crazy theories about murderous monks, Chinese terrorists and South Korean hit men. However, my research seems to suggest the POIs father was more than just an MD, but probably has much higher implications.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Or, even though he purchased a knife (and possibly wrapped it in a handkerchief to prevent it from poking another hole in his bag) - he did NOT think that it would come to the point where he would use it. After all, he strangled Rei first.

I get what you're saying but I'm of the thought if you bring a knife (or gun) into a stranger's house you have intent to use it! MOO

 

[cenazoic]

Most of us acknowledge the killer was the son of a military officer.

This is the sort of thing I think we should avoid stating as a fact. We do not know such a thing.

Not only that, but I believe seizing on breadcrumbs here, researching them, and then deciding your discoveries are the answer is naive at best, and at worst, actively detrimental to good research. You can’t allow a theory to guide the facts or the spin you put on them. (If I have to read one more time about the pad being evidence of “something something military”… to the moon, Alice!

Nic has his reasons for his POI. They are based on years of research and investigation. And yet, he created this thread, looking for feedback and the insights of others. In that context I could make a half-baked argument that finding another, different yet compelling POI would actually be more interesting and thought-provoking than simply following Nic’s tracks.

(And not picking on you, Steve! When I say ‘you’ I mean the universal you.)

 

[Incoherent]

I’m in Ogikubo today reflecting on the proximity of each place that sold the outfit and items and it’s as I remember it - they’re all next to one another.

Not only that, but I popped into the Seiyu at the train station and what is the first thing I see when in the kitchenware section:

I don’t know why I had assumed they wouldn’t be sold there anymore but sure enough, the entire range of them are still there.

 

[atomicsciencegal]

I’m in Ogikubo today reflecting on the proximity of each place that sold the outfit and items and it’s as I remember it - they’re all next to one another.

Not only that, but I popped into the Seiyu at the train station and what is the first thing I see when in the kitchenware section:
View attachment 532573
I don’t know why I had assumed they wouldn’t be sold there anymore but sure enough, the entire range of them are still there.

Is this the same branded knife, being sold all these years later?

 

[Incoherent]

Is this the same branded knife, being sold all these years later?

It is the exact knife the killer used.

 

[Eliver]

I’m in Ogikubo today reflecting on the proximity of each place that sold the outfit and items and it’s as I remember it - they’re all next to one another.

Not only that, but I popped into the Seiyu at the train station and what is the first thing I see when in the kitchenware section:
View attachment 532573
I don’t know why I had assumed they wouldn’t be sold there anymore but sure enough, the entire range of them are still there.

Truly and excellent find Incoherent.

The more details like these emerge and things we find, the more I'm convinced there's absolutely no way the TMPD hasn't noticed/pursued any of these things, even if they are not leads and it could just imply that the killer and the Miyazawa might have crossed path in Ogikubo.

For sure they are witholding information and for a good reason.
I'm not saying they are doing wrong, but just that it's very different from the country I was born and raised where police are very open about details in order to rely on tips from the general public.
This, of course, also leads to issues and the media's morbid attention.

Sorry if I went on a tangent here but the fact that you have found the exact same knife triggered these thoughts.

I'm sure the TMPD know way more than they seem to know.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

It is the exact knife the killer used.

Ugh it looks way bigger and horrific in your pic than the online photos I've seen

Kudos for the footwork you did on this!! All next to one another you say... so killer decided then and there to hit those stores up for what he needed and in a short period of time it sounds like. I wonder if something triggered him that day for him to decide he was going to commit murder and follow through on a fantasy/plan or whatever it was to him.

 

[Incoherent]

Truly and excellent find Incoherent.

The more details like these emerge and things we find, the more I'm convinced there's absolutely no way the TMPD hasn't noticed/pursued any of these things, even if they are not leads and it could just imply that the killer and the Miyazawa might have crossed path in Ogikubo.

For sure they are witholding information and for a good reason.
I'm not saying they are doing wrong, but just that it's very different from the country I was born and raised where police are very open about details in order to rely on tips from the general public.
This, of course, also leads to issues and the media's morbid attention.

Sorry if I went on a tangent here but the fact that you have found the exact same knife triggered these thoughts.

I'm sure the TMPD know way more than they seem to know.

I don’t think there is anything I have personally been able to unearth that the TMPD has not known from the beginning, or know already. I would even say they were likely stood in the exact store I was just in the very next day.

Ugh it looks way bigger and horrific in your pic than the online photos I've seen

Kudos for the footwork you did on this!! All next to one another you say... so killer decided then and there to hit those stores up for what he needed and in a short period of time it sounds like. I wonder if something triggered him that day for him to decide he was going to commit murder and follow through on a fantasy/plan or whatever it was to him.

It sounds stupid to say because it’s a knife, but it is very sharp.

He could have gone to Ogikubo and bought everything at once if he wanted to, yes. But some of the clothing and items were worn and had been owned for a while, so it suggests he possibly frequented that train station and area which would make more sense for a chance encounter with the Miyazawa family.

Additionally, I have just spotted an army and military surplus shop right by the station too but I did not have time to go in and see or talk to an employee. If you would like to see the shop’s website and what it sells check here.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

It sounds stupid to say because it’s a knife, but it is very sharp.

YES it looks very sharp in that picture. I am still shocked how huge it looks. I guess with all the dialogue about it not being and ideal knife to use compared to let's say the one the Idaho 4 guy used.. it's still a huge and sharp knife that did its damage. If I saw that in front of me... utterly terrifying.

He could have gone to Ogikubo and bought everything at once if he wanted to, yes. But some of the clothing and items were worn and had been owned for a while, so it suggests he possibly frequented that train station and area which would make more sense for a chance encounter with the Miyazawa family.

Hhhmm almost sounds like he'd be local to the area? Comfortable and seems to know the stores or do you think it's strictly related to the train station? Maybe not local actually as then he'd likely be recognized by clerks/staff if a regular customer or lived around there. And if I was to shop for "murder supplies" I would go somewhere out of my 'hood. Now I have to wonder if the clothes were a gimmick and purchased just for the crime since it seems to be in line with everything in one spot for his kill kit stuff so to speak. Do we know 100% the clothes were worn? They almost look flamboyant to commit murder in! MOO

Additionally, I have just spotted an army and military surplus shop right by the station too but I did not have time to go in and see or talk to an employee. It is potentially possible his hip bag could have come from there if the shop was around back then, since any bag similar to the killers seems to be sold under special operations equipment in Japan (whether it actually is or not I don’t know, it strikes me more as a “style” of a type of bag rather than the real thing). If you would like to see the shop’s website check here. Very much JMO here.

This is good information to know. Definitely wonder if shop was around back in 2000. Again, it sounds like he shopped for his kill stuff all in that small area which is interesting. I tried to look up the domain names for the shop and blog to see if I could tell when the domain/website was created/purchased or online but it won't let me. Not sure if because it's Japan(?) or not.

 

[Incoherent]

This is good information to know. Definitely wonder if shop was around back in 2000. Again, it sounds like he shopped for his kill stuff all in that small area which is interesting. I tried to look up the domain names for the shop and blog to see if I could tell when the domain/website was created/purchased or online but it won't let me. Not sure if because it's Japan(?) or not.

RSBM: sorry I removed that part of my post because I’m not sure if it’s actually possible it could have come from there, and it was more just a regular bag that resembled that kind of style. Unsure. But you’re welcome to speculate!

 

[Lalalacasbah]

RSBM: sorry I removed that part of my post because I’m not sure if it’s actually possible it could have come from there, and it was more just a regular bag that resembled that kind of style. Unsure. But you’re welcome to speculate!

No problem! And yeah, I'm always speculating for sure around here haha

ETA: I just noticed copyright for the site of that shop is 2010 and when I checked WayBack Machine which isn't really super reliable I don't think, looks like no real action until 2011 so maybe that shop opened around 2010ish. All speculation of course and MOO. Physical shop could have been there before they got online!

 

[Hausos]

For anyone who thinks that the killer is likely a native born Japanese, when you do a search of army and navy surplus stores, there’s hundreds and hundreds of such stores all over Japan. I counted 50 or more in Tokyo by googling. Plenty sell second hand American military supplies as well. Just for anyone who thinks the bag is a red herring and not a personal item the killer imported from America (or a better way to put it is imported the sand with him) – just something interesting to think about.