Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3

[Lalalacasbah]

For anyone who thinks that the killer is likely a native born Japanese, when you do a search of army and navy surplus stores, there’s hundreds and hundreds of such stores all over Japan. I counted 50 or more in Tokyo by googling. Plenty sell second hand American military supplies as well. Just for anyone who thinks the bag is a red herring and not a personal item the killer imported from America (or a better way to put it is imported the sand with him) – just something interesting to think about.

That bag has been a powerful driver in the ideas for sure. If we took away the bag... would the same conclusions be drawn? Where would the theories go if no bag? I'm curious I admit.

I'm sure Nic will weigh in as there is a few more things tied to the military than just the bag IIRC. It's good to get discussions happening, keep the thread bumping and get some global attention on this case!

 

[Incoherent]

For anyone who thinks that the killer is likely a native born Japanese, when you do a search of army and navy surplus stores, there’s hundreds and hundreds of such stores all over Japan. I counted 50 or more in Tokyo by googling. Plenty sell second hand American military supplies as well. Just for anyone who thinks the bag is a red herring and not a personal item the killer imported from America (or a better way to put it is imported the sand with him) – just something interesting to think about.

The bag was made in Osaka and sold in Japan, however the TMPD have never released the information of who made it and who sold it. Just that 2850 units were made and sold throughout Kanto. I haven’t managed to dig up anything on that yet but will see if I can if the info is out there somewhere.

The sand theory I believe indicated more that the killer took the bag with him places, including the US, as there was reportedly more than one type of sand in there - from Japan and the US, both from areas with AF bases. I’m unsure if there was any definitive conclusion on that. But the bag was definitely made and sold in Japan, making it unlikely a surplus store would sell it I think? Unsure on that.

 

[Hausos]

The bag was made in Osaka and sold in Japan, however the TMPD have never released the information of who made it and who sold it. Just that 2850 units were made and sold throughout Kanto. I haven’t managed to dig up anything on that yet but will see if I can if the info is out there somewhere.

The sand theory I believe indicated more that the killer took the bag with him places, including the US, as there was reportedly more than one type of sand in there - from Japan and the US, both from areas with AF bases. I’m unsure if there was any definitive conclusion on that. But the bag was definitely made and sold in Japan, making it unlikely a surplus store would sell it I think? Unsure on that.

That's pretty good information. If the sand belonging to only one specific desert is true, then either the killer purchased the bag in the Kanto region, took it with him to America to that desert, and happened to get sand in the bag (or placed it there himself), and later on returned to Japan with the bag. This brings more credence to the military theory (shifting between bases).

Or, he somehow brought the sand along with him, purchased the bag, and got the sand in the bag somehow.

 

[Hausos]

That bag has been a powerful driver in the ideas for sure. If we took away the bag... would the same conclusions be drawn? Where would the theories go if no bag? I'm curious I admit.

I'm sure Nic will weigh in as there is a few more things tied to the military than just the bag IIRC. It's good to get discussions happening, keep the thread bumping and get some global attention on this case!

I think the idea of a foreign killer arose solely from the sand and haplogroups of the killer. The sand is honestly the biggest lead so I can understand why it serves as the main driver. Without the sand in the picture, then we're at back at our starting point, and the case becomes much, much more difficult to sleuth if the killer is actually Japanese and has been living in Japan.

 

[Incoherent]

I think the idea of a foreign killer arose solely from the sand and haplogroups of the killer. The sand is honestly the biggest lead so I can understand why it serves as the main driver. Without the sand in the picture, then we're at back at our starting point, and the case becomes much, much more difficult to sleuth if the killer is actually Japanese and has been living in Japan.

The TMPD are also certain the shoes did not come from Japan due to the half size. If the killer was going between bases in the US, possibly South Korea too, and Japan, it could explain where the shoes came from as well as the sand and, in addition, any potential indications from his DNA of him being a foreigner that is in Japan but not from there.

The TMPD have logged his fingerprints with Interpol and have openly discussed and looked into the killer not being Japanese or living in Japan, and it was even the main theory in the early days printed in newspapers and discussed on TV. So in my opinion I don’t really see this theory as something that was simply cooked up because of a few minor details and could just fall apart easily, it is something that the TMPD have deemed a real possibility of being true.

If we go by the their estimates that the killer was between 15-24 in 2000 when he committed the murders, it means that, if he isn’t dead already, he is currently between the ages of 39 and 48.

He still has plenty of time to mess up on something and have those prints taken from him, anywhere in the world, for it to trigger a match.

 

[Sillybilly]

Admin note

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Thank you.

 

[vls12345]

I am trying to remember if any professional profilers came up with suggested info about the killer.

I know LE has given a possible age range, etc. But has a professional profiler worked with Tokyo LE to develop a profile to release to the public?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I am trying to remember if any professional profilers came up with suggested info about the killer.

I know LE has given a possible age range, etc. But has a professional profiler worked with Tokyo LE to develop a profile to release to the public?

I did some brief searches online as I wanted to know this as well.

The only thing that really came up were social media personalities making videos - not to disregard their credentials but I couldn't find anything in an article or published (yet!)

 

[Incoherent]

I have an update on a few things.

Going back to where the hip bag was sold and also Ogikubo station, I was looking into newspapers and magazines sold in Tokyo and across Japan and I came across this flyer that was featured in the Shukan Shincho, which is a very influential magazine, as well as on their website the Daily Shincho:



This is a flyer from the Seijo Police that was reportedly handed out in the Ogikubo area in 2017. It lists exactly where the items the killer had were sold in Ogikubo and, amazingly, it also says the hip bag was sold there too.
There is a building attached to Ogikubo station called Town Seven that housed and sold almost everything the killer had.

A quick translation:
Tshirt, hat, gloves - Marufuru, 4th floor (now closed)
Handkerchiefs - Muji, 2nd floor
Hip bag - Marche, 2nd floor (now closed)
Knife - Seiyu, 5th floor (exactly where I found it still there a few days ago)
Jacket - Uniqlo, 3rd floor (not listed on the poster but it is there)

In my opinion this makes it incredibly likely and plausible the killer did indeed get almost everything from Ogikubo and it could be a link in this case.

Nic has previously mentioned the Miyazawas did pass through this station so I think we could possibly have our meeting point here.

 

[Eliver]

I have an update on a few things.

Going back to where the hip bag was sold and also Ogikubo station, I was looking into newspapers and magazines sold in Tokyo and across Japan and I came across this flyer that was featured in the Shukan Shincho, which is a very influential magazine, as well as on their website the Daily Shincho:

View attachment 532937

This is a flyer from the Seijo Police that was reportedly handed out in the Ogikubo area in 2017. It lists exactly where the items the killer had were sold in Ogikubo and, amazingly, it also says the hip bag was sold there too.
There is a building attached to Ogikubo station called Town Seven that housed and sold almost everything the killer had.

A quick translation:
Tshirt, hat, gloves - Marufuru, 4th floor (now closed)
Handkerchiefs - Muji, 2nd floor
Hip bag - Marche, 2nd floor (now closed)
Knife - Seiyu, 5th floor (exactly where I found it still there a few days ago)
Jacket - Uniqlo, 3rd floor (not listed on the poster but it is there)

In my opinion this makes it incredibly likely and plausible the killer did indeed get almost everything from Ogikubo and it could be a link in this case.

Nic has previously mentioned the Miyazawas did pass through this station so I think we could possibly have our meeting point here.

This is a great lead.
Did the Miyazawas go there specifically on December 30 or previously?

If that's really the case, I wonder if the killer just casually picked them that day at Ogikubo and followed them or he had previously saw them there and planned it even further back in time.

If he did pick them that day it could very well be he studied the route, went back and then acted the night.

 

[Incoherent]

This is a great lead.
Did the Miyazawas go there specifically on December 30 or previously?

If that's really the case, I wonder if the killer just casually picked them that day at Ogikubo and followed them or he had previously saw them there and planned it even further back in time.

If he did pick them that day it could very well be he studied the route, went back and then acted the night.

I am unsure about why or when the Miyazawas were in Ogikubo. Nic may have an answer for that, but he has said the family were definitely there.

I suspect that he could have followed the family back home one day and then planned his attack for another day. I don’t believe it was ever mentioned the family left the immediate area on December 30th, though they did do shopping around Chitose and Seijo train stations.

Ogikubo is a very busy station, and the likely route home (easiest and fastest) via train for the Miyazawas would be Ogikubo > Shinjuku > Chitose Karasuyama or Seijo Gakuenmae. All of these stations, especially on weekends, are crowded and a person who could blend into the crowd would not have much trouble following them.

In one of my previous posts a train schedule for Seijo Gakuenmae station was attached to the fridge door, so perhaps that station was where they were followed from to their home.

This is all just MOO for if they were followed.

 

[GreK]

What I'm getting at is - are you trying to say you think the killer perhaps has a background in B&Es prior to murders then got bored and then escalated to wanting to 'try' murder?

I'll try to explain. The goal is robbery and the goal is murder, these are completely different goals. The criminal did not have the goal of killing everyone, or killing in general. A knife - to intimidate, to take someone hostage, for example to protect yourself from a dog. The knife has a huge number of uses. For example, he took it like this specifically to open locks on windows, to open, for example, a chain on the front door, maybe it’s convenient for them to open interior doors, etc. This knife is very versatile in this case. Most people think that it is exclusively for killing, but its scope is much wider. If his goal was to kill everyone, he would probably have taken another, more suitable, durable, convenient one - so as not to cut himself. Based on the knife, I think that it is not for murder, which means its main purpose was not murder. It turns out it's a robbery. The main goal and plan was this, but it turned out that I had to kill him. The murders were carried out completely unprofessionally. This is my opinion, which is being twisted. Like a thief - a pro, like a killer - a beginner. All JMO.

 

[Knitty]

This thread is closed. Please continue at Thread #4.