Jaycee's Girls

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I hesitate to weigh in as I know my posts have upset a few others. I believe that some must think that I cannot celebrate or recognize innocence--that I've become jaded through my children's victimization. I happen to believe that no one has a better vantage point than me to shout from the rooftops when I come across innocence, growth, healing, and goodness.

I strongly agree with Songline and Imbackon about integration. Imbackon, your comment about the loss of your cat was a perfect example!! I think everyone, regardless of whether they are survivors or not, can relate.

In our experience of raising eight rape victims, I can personally attest to the fact that each child healed and "integrated" in their own unique way. There were many surprises, too. A couple of our children who have the most serious special needs, seemed to put everything back together quite quickly. Possibly this is because they have never intellectualized their abuse. They know they were hurt, the hurt stopped, and now they are moving on. However, our higher functioning kids did not do as well. Each one grappled and struggled to heal and many are still very much on that path. We are right next to them, buoying them up when they stumble, and celebrating each tiny step towards healing.

Even after the sheer agony of the trial and the conviction (the rapist got 10 years and served every day of it), we experienced periodic upsets. We had rashes of suicide attempts when the case came to the surface again (appeal, Supreme Court, Post Conviction Relief Trial, and request for the governor's clemency). These were also times when we saw a lot of simple acting out, risk taking, and sudden strange illnesses. The children who suffered from serious PTSD had hospitalizations at these times. Heck, when the children had to testify at the PCR Trial and face their rapist again, we thought the whole family would crumble. And this was ten years after the rapes!!

To this day, anything pertaining to the case can set just about any of us off. There are triggers literally everywhere. I was not personally raped but every single time I have to climb marble steps (as in the court house), I feel physically sick. I can only imagine what it does to my kids, who are now all in their 20s. The rapist had a common name and seeing that name on our caller ID causes hearts to race. We had a subpoena delivered to the house recently (for a minor, unrelated issue) and I spent a week peeling adult kids off the ceiling. Our oldest son (not one of the victims) recently took our grandson to an open house at school and ran into the rapist's mother (who works in the same school our grandson attends). Our son had to go out to his car and throw up. There was just too much deja vu for him to bear.

Just as the therapists told us years ago, our children revisit their abuse at transitions in their lives..leaving home, having a close relationship, becoming an aunt or uncle. It was shocking to me to watch our kids start welcoming their nieces and nephews into our lives when they were born. They were literally afraid to touch the babies and toddlers!! We had to ease everyone into celebrating and honoring the wonder of babies and children and the inherent innocence of these little ones. Once taught, they've been highly appropriate and incredibly careful about boundaries (even with their special needs).

We are well on our way to a much more normal life but it will forever be changed by one horrible monster. Twelve years were ripped away from us. Twelve years which should have been normal and full and wonderful but were instead focused on a monster and his crimes.

It is my humble opinion that Jaycee and her girls have a long road ahead of them. We will probably never know all the sordid details on their lives (nor should we) but we can surmise that they've been terribly traumatized. Years of joy and normalcy were stolen from them at the very least. However, with therapy, the unconditional love of friends and family, and their own inner strength, they can survive and triumph.

I do believe in miracles. I wish you could meet my kids.
 
I hesitate to weigh in as I know my posts have upset a few others. I believe that some must think that I cannot celebrate or recognize innocence--that I've become jaded through my children's victimization. I happen to believe that no one has a better vantage point than me to shout from the rooftops when I come across innocence, growth, healing, and goodness.

I strongly agree with Songline and Imbackon about integration. Imbackon, your comment about the loss of your cat was a perfect example!! I think everyone, regardless of whether they are survivors or not, can relate.

In our experience of raising eight rape victims, I can personally attest to the fact that each child healed and "integrated" in their own unique way. There were many surprises, too. A couple of our children who have the most serious special needs, seemed to put everything back together quite quickly. Possibly this is because they have never intellectualized their abuse. They know they were hurt, the hurt stopped, and now they are moving on. However, our higher functioning kids did not do as well. Each one grappled and struggled to heal and many are still very much on that path. We are right next to them, buoying them up when they stumble, and celebrating each tiny step towards healing.

Even after the sheer agony of the trial and the conviction (the rapist got 10 years and served every day of it), we experienced periodic upsets. We had rashes of suicide attempts when the case came to the surface again (appeal, Supreme Court, Post Conviction Relief Trial, and request for the governor's clemency). These were also times when we saw a lot of simple acting out, risk taking, and sudden strange illnesses. The children who suffered from serious PTSD had hospitalizations at these times. Heck, when the children had to testify at the PCR Trial and face their rapist again, we thought the whole family would crumble. And this was ten years after the rapes!!

To this day, anything pertaining to the case can set just about any of us off. There are triggers literally everywhere. I was not personally raped but every single time I have to climb marble steps (as in the court house), I feel physically sick. I can only imagine what it does to my kids, who are now all in their 20s. The rapist had a common name and seeing that name on our caller ID causes hearts to race. We had a subpoena delivered to the house recently (for a minor, unrelated issue) and I spent a week peeling adult kids off the ceiling. Our oldest son (not one of the victims) recently took our grandson to an open house at school and ran into the rapist's mother (who works in the same school our grandson attends). Our son had to go out to his car and throw up. There was just too much deja vu for him to bear.

Just as the therapists told us years ago, our children revisit their abuse at transitions in their lives..leaving home, having a close relationship, becoming an aunt or uncle. It was shocking to me to watch our kids start welcoming their nieces and nephews into our lives when they were born. They were literally afraid to touch the babies and toddlers!! We had to ease everyone into celebrating and honoring the wonder of babies and children and the inherent innocence of these little ones. Once taught, they've been highly appropriate and incredibly careful about boundaries (even with their special needs).

We are well on our way to a much more normal life but it will forever be changed by one horrible monster. Twelve years were ripped away from us. Twelve years which should have been normal and full and wonderful but were instead focused on a monster and his crimes.

It is my humble opinion that Jaycee and her girls have a long road ahead of them. We will probably never know all the sordid details on their lives (nor should we) but we can surmise that they've been terribly traumatized. Years of joy and normalcy were stolen from them at the very least. However, with therapy, the unconditional love of friends and family, and their own inner strength, they can survive and triumph.

I do believe in miracles. I wish you could meet my kids.

Oh My God...this was so hard to read and the tears are just streaming. :(
I wish I can hold and kiss you :blowkiss::blowkiss:
You are an angel :angel: to those children.
I have to say I could not do what you do, I will have to call you HERO, and hope that you are forever blessed.

I do know (not from experience but from counseling others)
that it will take a lot of time. And even when healed there will be times when something will trigger them. :(
Their lives will never be like the nice girl next door.

I also know that the Media will only tell us they are doing well. The less we have to discuss, the faster
the story goes away and the faster they can live like normal people; stop having media everywhere.
A trigger can be in a simple place like 7/11 on the paper stand. Everything will soon quite down.

Obviously the other reason is it is none of our business, and we do not get to be a peeping tom in
peoples life. THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO PRIVACY :)
The media is giving us the minimum, to satisfy us and then they will go away.

This site is about helping to solve a case.
There is nothing to solve. They are home and healing.

I do hope this Forum will very soon become just one thread of updates.
PS:
If you need to talk - it is free :) just send me a PM and I will send you my other contact info.
 
The step dad reports that she was happy to see her mom, etc...
Her sister reports that the girls are playing around etc...
I do not think that is called integrated well :crazy:
Integrated takes some time.
I am sorry but you do not understand the severity of how
the mind works.
I do not care if she is the most CONSCIOUS SOUL, she was only discovered August 27 not even a month ago, and you have her already integrated??????: :waitasec: :crazy:

Trust me...she is no way integrated. The woman is suffering and needs help...and time. The torment and torture her mind has gone through takes much time to heal...she may be suffering from PTSD which could make her appear to handle life's basic issues well.....sometimes it is when the victims are in a safe enviornment that the walls come tumbling down. Prayers for Jaycee and the girls.
 
Thank you, Songline, for your kindness. You know, I've had many people over the years tell me that "they couldn't do what I do" and yet no one gets a choice. Trust me, there were days...no months, that I didn't want to do what I was doing. It's like a sudden illness, no one would choose it but when it happens, you just put one foot in front of the other. And don't get me started on a Mother's guilt. There's always something you think you could have done differently, something you missed.

I can really relate to the trauma that Jaycee's mom is going through right now. Of course, she must be delighted beyond belief that her baby girl is back in her arms and her grandchildren are safe but this is a huge shock and she has so much hard work ahead of her. This whole terrible ordeal was not in her "life plan". Life just got turned upside down. You have to become reactive for a long time as the events unfold as they will. It's a lot like being run over by a truck.

The entire family unit will spin for a while and then will, hopefully, start to stabilize. That's when the healing begins.
 
Originally Posted by songline
The step dad reports that she was happy to see her mom, etc...
Her sister reports that the girls are playing around etc...
I do not think that is called integrated well
Integrated takes some time.
I am sorry but you do not understand the severity of how
the mind works.
I do not care if she is the most CONSCIOUS SOUL, she was only discovered August 27
not even a month ago, and you have her already integrated??????:

Trust me...she is no way integrated. The woman is suffering and needs help...and time. The torment and torture her mind has gone through takes much time to heal...she may be suffering from PTSD which could make her appear to handle life's basic issues well.....sometimes it is when the victims are in a safe enviornment that the walls come tumbling down. Prayers for Jaycee and the girls.


:waitasec: :waitasec:That is what I said..Maybe you want to quote the person I was replying to :waitasec: :waitasec:
Which was post #76
I do not need to trust you on this I did counsel for 15 years.
 
Originally Posted by songline
The step dad reports that she was happy to see her mom, etc...
Her sister reports that the girls are playing around etc...
I do not think that is called integrated well
Integrated takes some time.
I am sorry but you do not understand the severity of how
the mind works.
I do not care if she is the most CONSCIOUS SOUL, she was only discovered August 27 not even a month ago, and you have her already integrated??????:




:waitasec: :waitasec:That is what I said..Maybe you want to quote the person I was replying to :waitasec: :waitasec:

Actually, i was agreeing with you and jumping off your post...sorry if it was confusing!!! :truce:
 
MissIzzy,

I am so sorry for what your family has been through. I am appalled however that anyone could believe 10 years is enough for what this guy did. (I am referring to your case) It should have been 10 years solid for each child, and each rape.

I just can't believe that ANYONE would believe that a guy like that would never do a child harm again. And they put drug dealers in jail for life on "three strikes you're out?" I'm no fan of drug dealers, but I would rather see any non-violent drug offender out before I would see rapists and murderers released early due to full prisons or on "good behavior."
 
Trust me...she is no way integrated. The woman is suffering and needs help...and time. The torment and torture her mind has gone through takes much time to heal...she may be suffering from PTSD which could make her appear to handle life's basic issues well.....sometimes it is when the victims are in a safe enviornment that the walls come tumbling down. Prayers for Jaycee and the girls.
Absolutely needs a lot of help for a long time.
Not only for her own ordeal, but to cope for her children too. :)
double whammy.
God Bless JC and her girls. :praying: And her Mom too.
 
I think because the girls were his he did not rape them....alot of rapists lead double lives.... they have a wife and kids at home but they have a dark side and they rape or molest women or girls.
I think Jaycee would have said if they were abused...why hold back? when she said what happened to her in the beginning and she also said he had not touched her in years.
 
Nobody2--Actually we've been told to thank our lucky stars that the rapist got 10 years. He was a teen and was held until he turned 25. He's a lifetime RSO but never accepted any treatment. He has no post-prison supervision as he did his time. He lives in a mid-size Oregon city one block from a park. Yes, you read that right. And I imagine it drives you just as nuts as it does me. Oregon has no "boundary" laws. We're thankful that he didn't return to our town but we worry terribly about other children.

I know in my heart that this man will offend again. I cannot open a newspaper or check the internet without looking for his name. That is a fact that I can't do a thing about. Once a person has done his time, they're done. There's no civil commitment nor "predatory" label for those who offended before age 18. I know our local LE watch for him but he chose to live in another city. Hopefully, LE has talked to each other in our case. Sadly, they sure as heck didn't in Jaycee's.

I don't think Jaycee or her girls have to worry about PG or NG getting out, though. Let's hope not!!
 
I've been wanting to post an observation about Jaycee's girls and think maybe this is the correct thread.

As I've posted before, I'm the mother of eight rape victims. One thing that has not been discussed is something that probably not a whole lot of people are even aware of. When there are multiple victims and there is a pending trial, the victims are not allowed in any way to discuss their experiences among themselves. This isn't much of a problem unless the victims are related as they are in this case.

This was tremendously challenging for our family as our children were very close in age (6-12) and all have special needs. We were on strict orders from the DA's office not to allow any of the children any unsupervised time when they could talk about their abuse. If they brought it up, we were instructed to immediately remove them from the area and speak to them privately. We also had to log every single thing they said to us and turn it into the police daily.

It was a full eleven months from disclosure until trial and this rule made life miserable. We sat around the dinner table, all terribly needy and wanting to share, but unable to say a single word. No child could comfort another by saying that they'd experienced the same thing. The concern, of course, was that one child's comments might taint another's. The DA wanted to be able to ask our children under oath whether they had spoken of these things. When the defense attorney tried to question whether we'd really upheld these rules, I just about came unglued. We'd suffered for eleven months and parented in a totally unnatural way and she dared question us!!! Oh, it was hard.

Our kids were also not allowed to be in any group therapy together. That meant that over the course of the eleven months, we logged in over 200 individual therapy and trauma assessment sessions for our eight children who were victims and the five who were older and not victims.

I don't know how the DA's will instruct Jaycee and her family but I would imagine the situation will be similar. I just wanted to throw this out there as I know some probably imagine lots of bonding and sharing sessions as sisters, moms, and grandma weep together. That's not allowed. Just another cruel fact. The pain is not over yet.
 
I am so sorry to read of your family's story Missizzy. This is interesting though, if the same "restrictions" apply to Jaycee's daughters and her family.

That would mean that if the daughters HAD told the therapist about molestation, or if the therapist talked to them and let them know that what they had experienced WAS molestation and not just touching, that Jaycee wouldn't know.

As I recall, the children are not really mentioned in the complaint . . .Jaycee is "Jane Doe", there are not 3 "Jane Does", and nothing has been mentioned about the daughters being witnesses at trial.
 
I don't know how the DA's will instruct Jaycee and her family but I would imagine the situation will be similar. I just wanted to throw this out there as I know some probably imagine lots of bonding and sharing sessions as sisters, moms, and grandma weep together. That's not allowed. Just another cruel fact. The pain is not over yet.

You are making the assumption that the children were abused. There is no evidence for that. There are no charges pending, so the DA would have no reason to enforce something like that.
 
I am so sorry to read of your family's story Missizzy. This is interesting though, if the same "restrictions" apply to Jaycee's daughters and her family.

That would mean that if the daughters HAD told the therapist about molestation, or if the therapist talked to them and let them know that what they had experienced WAS molestation and not just touching, that Jaycee wouldn't know.

As I recall, the children are not really mentioned in the complaint . . .Jaycee is "Jane Doe", there are not 3 "Jane Does", and nothing has been mentioned about the daughters being witnesses at trial.

All the charges other than forcible confinement involve stuff that either took place before the children were born, or before they were old enough to be witnesses. The rape charges after the birth of the first child only mention one Jane Doe, and that obviously is Jaycee.

The only charge that they could bear witness to is the forcible confinement of Jaycee, and I doubt that is sufficient reason to prevent them from talking to each other.
 
The only charge that they could bear witness to is the forcible confinement of Jaycee, and I doubt that is sufficient reason to prevent them from talking to each other.

Right, but who knows if the daughters would have perceived forcible confinement as such. They probably just thought that Jaycees (and their own forcible confinement) was "normal", pathetically enough. Although at age 11 and 15 they were quite old enough to wonder why their sister never left the house (assuming that's true). Maybe they are just beginning to learn now, through their therapist, discussions with Jaycee, etc., what their lives were all about. I doubt, too, that they are kept from talking to each other, as I've heard nothing about the daughters testifying at trial.
 
Starlite and Angel, the two daughters Jaycee Lee Dugard had with her accused kidnapper, Phillip Garrido, were "starved of information," have never watched TV, have never heard of the U.S. President, and are undergoing "de-brainwashing" therapy, according to investigators Wednesday.
[URL="http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/09/exclusive-r

"They are both intelligent kids but they are very naive about the real world," a Contra Costa Sheriff's Department officer told the UK Sun. The girls "have no concept of math, geography and history or anything outside their town of Antioch."
QUOTE]

Plenty of kids have actually be IN school, and they don't know that stuff either. Well, they may know who Obama is on a superficial level, but that's about it. Geography? History? Pffffft. PUH-LEASE.

I have no doubt that with intensive tutoring and self-driven study, the girls can become culturally literate and even far surpass many students their own age.

Is this actually reliable about them being starved of information and never watched TV? There are conflicting reports. There was a TV and VCR in the tent where Jaycee stayed.
The aunt in her press conference mentioned that movies they liked was one of the things Jaycee and her mom talked about and it included movies released since 1991. The one specifically mentioned was "Enchanted" which if its the same "Enchanted"" I'm thinking of is a disney movie released in 2007.
 
Is this actually reliable about them being starved of information and never watched TV? There are conflicting reports. There was a TV and VCR in the tent where Jaycee stayed.
The aunt in her press conference mentioned that movies they liked was one of the things Jaycee and her mom talked about and it included movies released since 1991. The one specifically mentioned was "Enchanted" which if its the same "Enchanted"" I'm thinking of is a disney movie released in 2007.

i also remember hearing jaycees girls were playing video games.
i think what is going on here is they have acces to movies and video games but no news programs.............kinda like when a jury is sequestered and they get a newspaper with stuff cut out of it
 
Is this actually reliable about them being starved of information and never watched TV? There are conflicting reports. There was a TV and VCR in the tent where Jaycee stayed.
The aunt in her press conference mentioned that movies they liked was one of the things Jaycee and her mom talked about and it included movies released since 1991. The one specifically mentioned was "Enchanted" which if its the same "Enchanted"" I'm thinking of is a disney movie released in 2007.

From a press conference with Jaycee's aunt Tina http://www.usposttoday.com/jaycee-lee-dugard-new-photos-released/
Miss Dugard said she sat with Jaycee and watched a DVD of the Disney film Enchanted about a fairytale princess. She said her niece talked about wanting to see the Sandra Bullock romantic comedy The Proposal.

So, she watched Enchanted AFTER the reunion with her family.
 
Natal--You are correct in that I am making an assumption that the younger girls might have been abused in some fashion. I apologize as I shouldn't make that leap.

My point, however, is that testimony must be preserved and I've learned that the justice system rarely concerns itself with the victims' well-being. Trial preparation is brutal. In my experience, very few concessions are made because of a victims' fear or discomfort. Thank goodness we have victims' advocates and advocacy groups. Our family would have perished without them. Their goal, though, is to preserve the victims' rights--not follow best practice for mental health and healing while awaiting a trial. This is where one would think that a family could step in. My experience was that our family had our hands tied behind our backs and were prohibited from offering the solace our kids desperately needed.

Our older children who were not victims, our friends, extended family, and teachers were not permitted to allow our children who were victims to speak of the abuse until the trial was over. The school actually had educational aids follow and supervise our children so this didn't happen.

We know that Jaycee is an abuse survivor. I think we all agree that her healing needs to begin. I'm really just trying to dispel any thoughts that the girls and Jaycee and the parents can speak freely and share their experiences. I wish I was wrong!! I know this part of the criminal process just floored me as I felt that my children needed to talk.

Thank you for calling me out on that assumption.
 

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