JLM: Morgan Harrington/Fairfax Rape Victim - *Forensic Link* to MH #2

[jamicat]

Whatever the DNA evidence is and where it was found on MH and what it matched of JM's thing or JM's DNA sample directly, we'll find out in time, I'm sure. When the results from the JM's cheek swab are run and analysed, there may be some direct links.

MH's parents have released a lot of information that is beyond what LE has given out. Whether they are paraphrasing, using exact words, have assumptions in there themselves is not fully known. MH's remains have been described as skeletal, so where DNA was found on her would be limited--under the nails, hair, teeth? I don't know. I don't know if any shreds of clothing or anything was found with her. LE has not released much info on this to the public. Nor do we even know exactly what the cause of death was and how MH's parents know she was raped, that she was beaten brutally, how hard she fought. The bones were broken badly from what I've read, but whether that was done in just dragging her body to where it was left, whether machinery or animals or anything got to it...I have no idea what story MH"s remains could tell a coroner.

 

[otto]

"Harrington's remains were found Jan. 26, 2010 at Anchorage Farm in Albemarle County, 10 miles outside of Charlottesville. While police released few details about Harrington's death, her family said in 2010 her murder had been violent, with several bones broken. She had also been raped, they said."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/09/30/forensic-link-morgan-harrington-hannah-graham-family-hope/

"However, her parents, both medical professionals, say signs of violence were obvious on their daughter's remains, which were released from evidence and returned to them in February.

"He chooses to kill in a savage and brutal way," says Gil Harrington, an oncology nurse, of her daughter's killer, "to break her bones before he murdered her." Dan Harrington, a psychiatrist, confirms that his daughter's skeleton showed "brutal damage."

http://www.readthehook.com/68346/shattered-bones-harringtons-say-morgans-killer-violent-sadistic

 

[Justice101]

DNA on Morgan (not her shoes, her shirt, or other clothing) matches the DNA taken from a 2005 rape victim.

Yes, that is exactly what I remembered... that it was on her... either still under her fingernails after 3 months, or in her deepest body cavities

 

[ksj3]

Whatever the DNA evidence is and where it was found on MH and what it matched of JM's thing or JM's DNA sample directly, we'll find out in time, I'm sure. When the results from the JM's cheek swab are run and analysed, there may be some direct links.

MH's parents have released a lot of information that is beyond what LE has given out. Whether they are paraphrasing, using exact words, have assumptions in there themselves is not fully known. MH's remains have been described as skeletal, so where DNA was found on her would be limited--under the nails, hair, teeth? I don't know. .

snipped

There is some report somewhere, and I've scoured for it in the last few days and can't find it, that her remains were more than skeletal; that there was some tissue remaining.

Does anyone else recall seeing that and can you find it?

The Harringtons describe "a wealth of physical evidence" at the scene including clothing. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/morgan-...ice-link-va-tech-slaying-to-unsolved-assault/

 

[otto]

snipped

There is some report somewhere, and I've scoured for it in the last few days and can't find it, that her remains were more than skeletal; that there was some tissue remaining.

Does anyone else recall seeing that and can you find it?

The Harringtons describe "a wealth of physical evidence" at the scene including clothing. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/morgan-...ice-link-va-tech-slaying-to-unsolved-assault/

"Morgan Harrington's death was a homicide, the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner in Richmond said Tuesday. ...

Experts have enough tissue from Morgan D. Harrington to conduct several tests, though those tests could take many months, the parents of the slain college student said Thursday. ...

“You have to reconstitute them to then do your chemical assays on,” Gil Harrington, Morgan’s mother, said."

http://www.wsls.com/story/20831219/...-morgan-harringtons-remains-could-take-months

 

[ksj3]

"Morgan Harrington's death was a homicide, the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner in Richmond said Tuesday. ...

Experts have enough tissue from Morgan D. Harrington to conduct several tests, though those tests could take many months, the parents of the slain college student said Thursday. ...

“You have to reconstitute them to then do your chemical assays on,” Gil Harrington, Morgan’s mother, said."

http://www.wsls.com/story/20831219/...-morgan-harringtons-remains-could-take-months

Wow. Dan Harrington nailed it. In 2010. “There is a bad guy here in Charlottesville,” he said.

And his friends and coworkers didn't come forward, why? (Of course, I live here, and I don't remember being at all concerned this was someone local and would strike again...sigh...) Maybe we can learn something from that for the future, as far as pub. ed.

 

[jamicat]

Wow. Dan Harrington nailed it. In 2010. “There is a bad guy here in Charlottesville,” he said.

And his friends and coworkers didn't come forward, why? (Of course, I live here, and I don't remember being at all concerned this was someone local and would strike again...sigh...) Maybe we can learn something from that for the future, as far as pub. ed.

JM wasn't a suspect at all in the MH case, from what I can gather. Yes, he could fit the sketch and the general description, but there are a lot of AA males in the area that could fit it. His friends might have teased him about looking like the police sketch, but no one called him into the police. Those who knew him did not think he would do anything like this. Yeah, he was on the make with the women, yeah, he pushed such boundaries too far at times, but I doubt anyone thought he went that far over the line. I don't think they were protecting him; it truly did not occur to them that the JM they knew could do such a horrible thing.

I am glad that LE did get a a lot of forensic evidence from MH's remains. Looking at how long she was out in the elements and the descriptions I'd read about the findings, I would not have thought so much would be left. That a forensic link has been made already to JM is ever so promising.

 

[Conductor71]

It's a shame that that the Fairfax rape case is one that is unlikely to come to trial due to the fact that the victim is not likely to be in the country any more, and is of a culture where resurrecting this could cause her and her family a lot of problems. The DNA evidence obtained from her is very direct, fresh, "clean". and if matched with JM's swab, would be excellent evidence.

We don't know what kind of DNA exists on MH and where. On her, on clothing, on that tee shirt, and what forensic evidence that would contribute greatly to directly pointing the finger to JM in Hannah's case either. Until we gt more info on that, it's up in the air.

DNA on Morgan (not her shoes, her shirt, or other clothing) matches the DNA taken from a 2005 rape victim.

It's a shame that we are still perseverating over this. This is now proof by semantics. I am not going to lob sources back and forth anymore. DNA "on Morgan" does not literally translate to on her remains. It may, but it does not matter.

MH's death is an open, criminal investigation. The investigators cannot reveal where any forensic evidence was obtained, as it would be a fundamental breach to the integrity of the investigation. I will post a supporting statement from Corinne Geller (yet again ), she is the spokesperson for the VSA.


She declines to say exactly when police received the results or even what type of forensic evidence was tested. - DATE April 2010 when released to public that Pantera tshirt found on campus was MH's.

http://www.readthehook.com/67960/pantera-find-shirt-15th-street-was-morgan-harringtons


Further at this time, they were not even finished processing DNA samples from MH's remains.


According to Virginia State Police spokesperson Corinne Geller, the forensic testing on the shirt wasn't complete until the last few weeks–- law enforcement did not know the results in January, when the shirt was first publicly reported, she says–-and police are not releasing any details on the condition of the shirt. Police are still waiting on forensic testing results from Morgan's remains and Anchorage Farm, Geller says, -DATE April 2010

http://www.readthehook.com/67960/pantera-find-shirt-15th-street-was-morgan-harringtons

DNA is not the Holy Grail of any case. It can be weak or strong evidence. DNA at a crime scene or on the deceased does not prove murder. It only shows proximity of two people. Finally, MH could have other DNA on her and it does not come with a date time stamp. So HM could have encountered the perp somewhere else or on another day. It would be great if there were chemical changes that could be traced with it and yield clues.

We won't know unless they charge JM in Morgan's case, so let's just wait and see if LE decides to release further info. Don't mean to be snarky, but seems like it doesn't really matter right now as it's importance is contextual to other evidence gathered and presented at trial.

 

[rossva]

With all due respect, that link does not support any fact that DNA was found on Morgan's body. No where has LE stated DNA was found on Morgan's body. All that link does is show that according to Morgan's parents DNA was found on her body. As some one else has posted: "Whether they are paraphrasing, using exact words, have assumptions in there themselves is not fully known." While I am not questioning what they have said, they are not LE.

Whenever I see "with all due respect" in a comment, I'm afraid to keep reading, but ...

I need to see a link supporting the claim that DNA on a t-shirt is connected with the 2005 rape. So far, there is no link to support this claim. There is, however, a link to support the claim that DNA was found on Morgan's body. Please provide a quote, and a link, supporting the above claim (that DNA on a shirt is connected with the 2005 rape).

Here is the link supporting the fact that DNA was found on Morgan's body:

"Investigators will only say that forensic evidence ties the suspect to Morgan Harrington's abduction and murder in Charlottesville. But Harrington's parents confirmed this afternoon it was DNA found on Morgan that matches the suspect in the Fairfax case."

http://www.wlox.com/story/12742496/update-morgan-harringtons-death-linked-to-case-in-fairfax

We recently learned that forensic evidence connected Jesse Matthew to Morgan Harrington.

 

[ksj3]

JM wasn't a suspect at all in the MH case, from what I can gather. Yes, he could fit the sketch and the general description, but there are a lot of AA males in the area that could fit it. His friends might have teased him about looking like the police sketch, but no one called him into the police. Those who knew him did not think he would do anything like this. Yeah, he was on the make with the women, yeah, he pushed such boundaries too far at times, but I doubt anyone thought he went that far over the line. I don't think they were protecting him; it truly did not occur to them that the JM they knew could do such a horrible thing.

I am glad that LE did get a a lot of forensic evidence from MH's remains. Looking at how long she was out in the elements and the descriptions I'd read about the findings, I would not have thought so much would be left. That a forensic link has been made already to JM is ever so promising.

Which is why public education needs to change somehow. I'm learning now that we were told he was a local, we were told he would strike again, we were told we'd never suspect he could do anything like this. I didn't learn any of this then.

Folks this time didn't even know they were being asked to search their properties.

We now know (hindsight, I realize) that his friends teased him and he responded unusually to it (and then noticed he was changing his appearance!).... The bouncer didn't "worry" enough to report him to LE but did kick him out of the bar. The freakin' history with the two schools. The dropped assault charges.

Where was the failure? What can we do differently?

Are we really that busy, that wrapped up in ourselves and our own lives, that we don't pay attention? How do we change that? How do they get us to pay attention?

 

[themom]

Whatever the DNA evidence is and where it was found on MH and what it matched of JM's thing or JM's DNA sample directly, we'll find out in time, I'm sure. When the results from the JM's cheek swab are run and analysed, there may be some direct links.

MH's parents have released a lot of information that is beyond what LE has given out. Whether they are paraphrasing, using exact words, have assumptions in there themselves is not fully known. MH's remains have been described as skeletal, so where DNA was found on her would be limited--under the nails, hair, teeth? I don't know. I don't know if any shreds of clothing or anything was found with her. LE has not released much info on this to the public. Nor do we even know exactly what the cause of death was and how MH's parents know she was raped, that she was beaten brutally, how hard she fought. The bones were broken badly from what I've read, but whether that was done in just dragging her body to where it was left, whether machinery or animals or anything got to it...I have no idea what story MH"s remains could tell a coroner.

So if it's not DNA, that means they found something in his apartment, like MHs necklace. I can't imagine what else...maybe photos of her body? Ugh.

 

[Aeronomy]

I had originally thought the DNA had come from Morgan's shirt as well. However, after reviewing the Press Release that was sent out for immediate release on June 30, 2011, it seems that it may say without directly saying that the DNA came from Morgan's remains. Here's the first paragraph of that release:

"RICHMOND – It was one year ago Friday (July 1, 2011) that Virginia State Police went public with a composite sketch of a man forensically linked to the disappearance and death of Virginia Tech student, Morgan Harrington. The composite sketch resulted from an unsolved 2005 abduction and sexual assault in the City of Fairfax. The Virginia Department of Forensic Science was able to confirm a DNA forensic match connecting the two separate crimes."

The reason I say "say without directly saying" is because the release from the Virginia State Police states it is forensically linked to "the disappearance AND DEATH". Unless Morgan's shirt in some way held evidence of her death, then wouldn't it be a stretch to conclude DNA from her shirt is forensically linked to her death?

Yet . . . if the DNA was from her shirt . . . then I'm personally left to wonder, what other information did her shirt provide?

 

[otto]

It's a shame that we are still perseverating over this. This is now proof by semantics. I am not going to lob sources back and forth anymore. DNA "on Morgan" does not literally translate to on her remains. It may, but it does not matter.

MH's death is an open, criminal investigation. The investigators cannot reveal where any forensic evidence was obtained, as it would be a fundamental breach to the integrity of the investigation. I will post a supporting statement from Corinne Geller (yet again ), she is the spokesperson for the VSA.


She declines to say exactly when police received the results or even what type of forensic evidence was tested. - DATE April 2010 when released to public that Pantera tshirt found on campus was MH's.

http://www.readthehook.com/67960/pantera-find-shirt-15th-street-was-morgan-harringtons


Further at this time, they were not even finished processing DNA samples from MH's remains.


According to Virginia State Police spokesperson Corinne Geller, the forensic testing on the shirt wasn't complete until the last few weeks–- law enforcement did not know the results in January, when the shirt was first publicly reported, she says–-and police are not releasing any details on the condition of the shirt. Police are still waiting on forensic testing results from Morgan's remains and Anchorage Farm, Geller says, -DATE April 2010

http://www.readthehook.com/67960/pantera-find-shirt-15th-street-was-morgan-harringtons

DNA is not the Holy Grail of any case. It can be weak or strong evidence. DNA at a crime scene or on the deceased does not prove murder. It only shows proximity of two people. Finally, MH could have other DNA on her and it does not come with a date time stamp. So HM could have encountered the perp somewhere else or on another day. It would be great if there were chemical changes that could be traced with it and yield clues.

We won't know unless they charge JM in Morgan's case, so let's just wait and see if LE decides to release further info. Don't mean to be snarky, but seems like it doesn't really matter right now as it's importance is contextual to other evidence gathered and presented at trial.

I have not seen any link stating that DNA on a shirt has been related to the 2005 rape.

DNA on Morgan's shirt connects the shirt to Morgan. DNA on Morgan's body connects her murder to the 2005 rape. Forensic evidence connected Hannah's disappearance and Morgan's murder. That's all we know. Three women: one missing, one raped, one murdered ... all connected by forensic evidence to one person.

 

[otto]

With all due respect, that link does not support any fact that DNA was found on Morgan's body. No where has LE stated DNA was found on Morgan's body. All that link does is show that according to Morgan's parents DNA was found on her body. As some one else has posted: "Whether they are paraphrasing, using exact words, have assumptions in there themselves is not fully known." While I am not questioning what they have said, they are not LE.

Sure, let's run with that ... Forensic evidence connects Jesse Matthew to Hannah. Forensic evidence connects Hannah's disappearance to Morgan's body. Forensic evidence connects Morgan's body to the 2005 rape. The result is the same: one missing, one murdered, one raped ... connected to Jesse Matthew by forensic evidence.

 

[justwannahelp]

JM wasn't a suspect at all in the MH case, from what I can gather. Yes, he could fit the sketch and the general description, but there are a lot of AA males in the area that could fit it. His friends might have teased him about looking like the police sketch, but no one called him into the police. Those who knew him did not think he would do anything like this. Yeah, he was on the make with the women, yeah, he pushed such boundaries too far at times, but I doubt anyone thought he went that far over the line. I don't think they were protecting him; it truly did not occur to them that the JM they knew could do such a horrible thing.

I am glad that LE did get a a lot of forensic evidence from MH's remains. Looking at how long she was out in the elements and the descriptions I'd read about the findings, I would not have thought so much would be left. That a forensic link has been made already to JM is ever so promising.

but then there were people who knew him from bars that thought was inappropriate towards women. i'm saddened that no one called him in. they could have done it anon. the girls that were complaining to the bouncer, the bouncer, or other bar patrons that witnessed his inappropriate behavior. yes. i know that college bars will have grabby drunk guys saying and doing inappropriate things. but he was a regular, and acted this way often. it's not like he acted a fool on Mardi Gras and New Years Eve. he was banned from the bar. hannah could still be with us today if people would have taken the sketch and JLMs behavior more seriously. i'm not blaming them, but I am frustrated.

 

[otto]

I had originally thought the DNA had come from Morgan's shirt as well. However, after reviewing the Press Release that was sent out for immediate release on June 30, 2011, it seems that it may say without directly saying that the DNA came from Morgan's remains. Here's the first paragraph of that release:

"RICHMOND – It was one year ago Friday (July 1, 2011) that Virginia State Police went public with a composite sketch of a man forensically linked to the disappearance and death of Virginia Tech student, Morgan Harrington. The composite sketch resulted from an unsolved 2005 abduction and sexual assault in the City of Fairfax. The Virginia Department of Forensic Science was able to confirm a DNA forensic match connecting the two separate crimes."

The reason I say "say without directly saying" is because the release from the Virginia State Police states it is forensically linked to "the disappearance AND DEATH". Unless Morgan's shirt in some way held evidence of her death, then wouldn't it be a stretch to conclude DNA from her shirt is forensically linked to her death?

Yet . . . if the DNA was from her shirt . . . then I'm personally left to wonder, what other information did her shirt provide?

We're still waiting for any link that states that the 2005 rape is connected to a shirt via DNA.
We have a link stating that DNA on Morgan was connected with the rape.

 

[themom]

but then there were people who knew him from bars that thought was inappropriate towards women. i'm saddened that no one called him in. they could have done it anon. the girls that were complaining to the bouncer, the bouncer, or other bar patrons that witnessed his inappropriate behavior. yes. i know that college bars will have grabby drunk guys saying and doing inappropriate things. but he was a regular, and acted this way often. it's not like he acted a fool on Mardi Gras and New Years Eve. he was banned from the bar. hannah could still be with us today if people would have taken the sketch and JLMs behavior more seriously. i'm not blaming them, but I am frustrated.

Good post. Bars should give the LE a heads up on banned patrons. These are obviously persistent offenders, which is a red flag for something. Even just a report on file would be something that could help in the long run.

 

[jamicat]

but then there were people who knew him from bars that thought was inappropriate towards women. i'm saddened that no one called him in. they could have done it anon. the girls that were complaining to the bouncer, the bouncer, or other bar patrons that witnessed his inappropriate behavior. yes. i know that college bars will have grabby drunk guys saying and doing inappropriate things. but he was a regular, and acted this way often. it's not like he acted a fool on Mardi Gras and New Years Eve. he was banned from the bar. hannah could still be with us today if people would have taken the sketch and JLMs behavior more seriously. i'm not blaming them, but I am frustrated.

Sadly, there are so many who act like JM, that calling them all in would be a mass cattle call. Also, though now that one can see this behavior from the perspective of murders and rapes, many people think it's just normal behavior and accept it. Just "ol' Jess acting his part, is the way it goes, and many may even think the whole thing to be funny. Ok, he steps slightly over the line a few times and gets thrown out or banned for a while, but most of the time, though people might shake their head at the way JM acted, they'd be amused at the same time, even with an undertone of disgust.

It's a good thing that we are becoming less tolerant as a society about these things, but it's still considered very much normal. JM's behavior was just not considered abnormal enough to call in to the police.

The same with the sketch. Yes, there is some resemblance, enough to bring up and maybe kid about and for some, maybe a shake of the head, a thought, but then a "naw, can't be". It's not close enough and JM just didn't seem to be the type. I don't think the sketch is that close, and it seems to me that no one who knew of him and saw the sketch too, seemed to think it was worth calling in. Sketch not close enough, too much of a stretch.

 

[themom]

Sadly, there are so many who act like JM, that calling them all in would be a mass cattle call. Also, though now that one can see this behavior from the perspective of murders and rapes, many people think it's just normal behavior and accept it. Just "ol' Jess acting his part, is the way it goes, and many may even think the whole thing to be funny. Ok, he steps slightly over the line a few times and gets thrown out or banned for a while, but most of the time, though people might shake their head at the way JM acted, they'd be amused at the same time, even with an undertone of disgust.

It's a good thing that we are becoming less tolerant as a society about these things, but it's still considered very much normal. JM's behavior was just not considered abnormal enough to call in to the police.

The same with the sketch. Yes, there is some resemblance, enough to bring up and maybe kid about and for some, maybe a shake of the head, a thought, but then a "naw, can't be". It's not close enough and JM just didn't seem to be the type. I don't think the sketch is that close, and it seems to me that no one who knew of him and saw the sketch too, seemed to think it was worth calling in. Sketch not close enough, too much of a stretch.

A lot of this also comes with being such a known presence in the town. How could someone really be dangerous if we all know him, and know him to be a little on the dim side to boot? It's just annoying Jesse again, acting inappropriately, no worries. I am sure he got away with so much because he was an expected part of the background, if you know what I mean. A harmless "character".

 

[Conductor71]

Sure, let's run with that ... Forensic evidence connects Jesse Matthew to Hannah. Forensic evidence connects Hannah's disappearance to Morgan's body. Forensic evidence connects Morgan's body to the 2005 rape. The result is the same: one missing, one murdered, one raped ... connected to Jesse Matthew by forensic evidence.

The forensic link may only prove that the perp is or African American descent. Then what? DNA evidence is not by any means a slam dunk.