JLM: Psych Thread - Professional and Non-Professional Opinions/Theories

[LI-Mom]

I have a hard time with this line of thought. To say that the 2002 incident pushed him over some sort of edge doesn't compute for me.
He was already a rapist. Whatever is "wrong" with him was already wrong with him.

Would it push him over the edge if it really was consensual sex?

 

[sripey]

Would it push him over the edge if it really was consensual sex?

Push him over the edge to raping and killing others? No. Not unless he was already broken.

 

[Aeronomy]

I would like to see one example of a serial killer who had a loving upbringing. Not Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer. They did not have good upbringings.

I think there may be quite a few. I can't name any off the top of my head, but Radford University's database of over 3500 serial killers is one of the most comprehensive and to-the-point I've seen. It covers their lives from the day they were born in most cases, even including information such as if forceps were used and etc. They have about 200 of the timelines accessible online at http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Psyc 405/serial_killer_timelines.htm


Below is an example of how the biographical information is formatted within the timelines.

 

[wary]

I think there may be quite a few. I can't name any off the top of my head, but Radford University's database of over 3500 serial killers is one of the most comprehensive and to-the-point I've seen. It covers their lives from the day they were born in most cases, even including information such as if forceps were used and etc. They have about 200 of the timelines accessible online at http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Psyc 405/serial_killer_timelines.htm

Once again, I don't have the link, but that study that was posted today--a very thorough study of serial killers by the FBI, named the idea that they had all suffered childhood abuse as a myth. However, I don't think they gave any examples.

 

[Aeronomy]

Once again, I don't have the link, but that study that was posted today--a very thorough study of serial killers by the FBI, named the idea that they had all suffered childhood abuse as a myth. However, I don't think they gave any examples.

LOL - I read it. In fact, I commented earlier about it.

 

[Celtsleuth]

Thank you Aeronomy for this link....it is very interesting...

I think there may be quite a few. I can't name any off the top of my head, but Radford University's database of over 3500 serial killers is one of the most comprehensive and to-the-point I've seen. It covers their lives from the day they were born in most cases, even including information such as if forceps were used and etc. They have about 200 of the timelines accessible online at http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Psyc 405/serial_killer_timelines.htm


Below is an example of how the biographical information is formatted within the timelines.

View attachment 62267

 

[jamicat]

Whatever it is that drives JM to do the things h has does not matter to me in terms of dealing with him. He has to be put away from others in society because it's simply too dangerous to have him about. We never know what others will do when the opportunities arise., no one is watching and they think they might get away with such deeds. We DO know what JM would do because he's now been caught.

 

[Justice101]

You know, in light of the UNC athlete cheating scandal with "student athletes" only reading on a 4th and 5th grade level, you can see how he was admitted to college. Since 2003, there has been NO SAT requirement for athletes admittance to college.

 

[Justice101]

My overall theory on him is he cannot control his rage. He does this infrequently, but when he does, he kills his victims.... maybe he's in bad mood, he feels hurt/rejected. He probably even feels remorseful and hates himself for maybe a year or two, and changes his ways.... goes to church etc. Then he snaps again and kills another... and the cycle repeats. (The fact of the way he treated the lawyer that he assaulted shows he has remorse.) But the overall trend is the same...sort of like when I got my first DUI, I was really really sad and vowed to change my ways... only to get another one in about 18 months when that self-control stopped... then I was really really really really sorry..... and then about 3 years later I got my 3rd DUI.... Only when I joined AA and changed my way of life, did it really fix the problem. Uncontrolled rage for a huge guy that preys on women = serial murderer, who is sorry for a while and tries to make amends. That's my arm chair quarterback psychological profile.

 

[Shamby]

Then I am not explaining my thoughts well. That is my bad. I am describing someone who for whatever reason, never felt accepted, a part. I am not describing someone to whom others do not factor as quite as "real" as themselves. If anything, I am describing a person who does not feel as "real" as seen as others and who desperately want to be so. I am describing someone who is not at all mentally ill or diminished in teh legal sense of the term. I am describing someone who decided to be who he wanted to be through some sick fantasy, not because he could not view his victims as humans, but because he COULD, and that fed his need. He found his way to exert control and feel visible and worthy of notice.

Not at all legally insane. But malformed. I do not pretend to know why. But I do not feel he is malformed in the narcissist/sociopathic, others are not as "real" as me, I am a charmer, it is all about me, I am due this, it is my right, sort.

That is my view of that personaily type. And he don't fit it. Sorry. Makes him no less a danger or a monster or a threat. JMO

I actually thought your conceptualization was great, but I just didn't find it to be at odds with a narcissistic personality disorder diagnosis. You may be aware of this already, but personality disorders are (with very rare exceptions) not a legal basis for an insanity defense. That is, while people with personality disorders are, by definition, mentally ill and may have very real neurological and physiological bases for their disorders, they are typically not considered to be "insane" within the context of the legal system. So we can very much argue that someone like JLM may meet criteria for a personality disorder, but this does not mean he is considered to be diminished or not fully responsible for his actions in the eyes of the law.

Also, just my two cents, a psychologist would be hard-pressed to argue that a serial killer does NOT meet criteria for a personality disorder. Antisocial Personality Disorder, in particular, is an extremely 'behavioral' diagnosis - that is, if someone has engaged engaged in criminal behavior and has a legal history, they are halfway there. Add "reckless disregard for the safety of others" (easy to argue if someone hurts or kills another person) and deceitfulness, lack of remorse, or something as generic as "consistent irresponsibility," and you have fully met the criteria. This is actually a criticism of the diagnosis, as it's been argued that it overemphasizes the behavioral component (e.g., criminality) and underestimates the personality factors associated with psychopathy. The problem that people run into is that the personality factors are harder to measure, as often people with antisocial personality disorder are consciously or even unconsciously likely to misrepresent themselves during an evaluation. But getting back to my original thought, a a psychologist for the defense would have to argue that there is some other explanation for these "antisocial" behaviors, such as PTSD (as in the cases of Oscar Pistorious and Jodi Arias, which the judge and jury will either believe or not).

Also, this may be both a personal and professional bias, but I would argue that anyone who willfully kills another person outside of the context of war or self-defense (or something like assisted suicide, which is another issue entirely) is likely to have a significant mental health or neurological disorder. Ditto violent sexual assault. Using your conceptualization of JLM, and assuming for the sake of discussion that he is guilty of these crimes, think of how different and maladaptive his actions are as compared with the actions of thousands of other promising high school and college athletes who ultimately fail to achieve their dreams. There is something that separates him from others who may have had some of the same thoughts and feelings, but ultimately find healthy outlets for their frustrations and are able to lead productive lives. You might conceptualize that difference as a "malformation" - I agree, but would simply take it a step farther and try to find a diagnosis that fits the presentation.

 

[SolVol]

Here is another article on the mental workings of a Serial Sexual Predator/Killer: http://66.199.228.237/boundary/hematomania/The_Nature_and_dynamics_of_sexual_homicide.pdf

I was appalled to read that some people are trying to mainstream hematomania (that I call blood lust) as an innocent, harmless proclivity.

Leviticus and Acts 15 are very clear about the dangers of this kind of activity on the human psyche. Our minds are fragile and some acts and thoughts and experiences damage human mental balance and stability.

Science has shown that our brains are continually changed chemically, structurally and functionally, by our thoughts, beliefs, actions and interpersonal interactions, both positively and negatively, cumulatively and interactively, throughout our lifetimes.

 

[LI-Mom]

I think we can all agree that no one is looking for a defense strategy for JM, we're just trying to figure out what makes him tick. A futile effort, but people have questions so we toss around ideas.

 

[littlemaybaby]

His behavior in front of the judge in Texas . . . He seemed so disconnected from reality. There were only two realities - either he was innocent and was being sent back to VA to be arrested for a very serious he didn't commit. Or he was guilty and inevitably knew his arrest would result in a DNA swab that would link him to at least 2 other violent crimes.

In either of those scenarios, I just don't see babbling about his clothes and his mattress being an even remotely "normal" way to respond.

Is that because he has no remorse? Is it because he in some way doesn't feel he did anything wrong? Is it just his narcissistic personality? Or could he really just be that slow and have no concept of what is happening?

The whole exchange was just incredibly bizarre to me . . .

 

[va blue]

I am a new member and first time poster. I have been a guest for several years. I started with the Morgan Harrington case. I have lived my whole life in Va. Born in Roanoke and lived in NOVA during my teens and now live in rural SWVA. I have a daughter who is at Va Tech everyday. She studied there in high school on weekends and the summer. She went to a local Community College and now works there at Va Tech. She was there on the Sunday before the horrible massacre unfolded. Two years ago a young man entered the Community College where she was and began shooting at several young women. Luckily they were all only injured and not fatally wounded. I dont know what is happening to society but I am getting a good inside look.
I am a mother of 5 children. Two of which I birthed and three that I birthed in my heart. I never differentiate them because they are are so special to me in their own ways. The only reason that I would even disclose this fact is because of the reason I decided to post today. I have been reading all of the posts about JMs psychological aspects. Indeed I wish that they would study the adolescent aspect of future psychopaths. I have a son who is now 14. He has been in a loving and caring home for 7 years now. I wish that I could kiss away some of the horrible things that have happened to him as I have been able to do with other children but his wounds I cant see. I have had him in therapy from the start with phsyciatrists as well. He is in a constant struggle with his background; as he says his "dark side". He does not steal anymore after a planned police intervention. He will lie to you and not think a thing about it. I dont mean normal kid lies either. I mean when he was 7 he would take a toy from another kid and go and tell the teacher and other kids that someone with a knife came and stole the toy and alarm everyone. Of course I would find it later. There was always a consequence and I do not mean beating but no games or tv etc. He would try to bargain and negotiate out of everything. I have been able to teach him that animals are not for hurting and he has his own dog now. However he is very good at manipulation. He has learning disabilities but absolutely refuses to do his work even on much lower levels. He spends until Dec. of every school year manipulating his teachers. Of course there are some who wont let him and he then challenges them. He evaluates every person he meets. Can I trick them (and if he can his eyebrow goes up slightly) or not and if I cant I will challenge you. My biggest problem with psychology is that it is all feel good. There is no there to reinforce that these behaviors are wrong. We now have a great therapist. It has taken 2 years for her to get his number so to speak. We tried medication again last year but to no avail. The psychiatrist told us that there is no magic pill. I did receive an invitation to a brain study at Va Tech for males 13 and 14 years old. It stated that I would receive a copy of his brain scan. I thought how great is this maybe I can see where these areas of his brain is lit up and not lit. His therapist and I were excited. When inquiring I was informed that all info was patient confidentiality and that I would be told none of the results. In addition they wanted a mouth swab. The scan that they promised was a black and white image that would show no results of the actual test. I needed this to help him NOW or at least help me see what may be missing so that we can help him more. So I declined.
I love this boy. He is such a hard worker. He will chop wood and mow the lawn etc. But as far as real relationship building, he is in a constant struggle. He does love his dad and I. He is very handsome with piercing blue eyes. I will never give up because after all he is my son. I believe most serial killers are affected by attachment disorder. Not all children with attachment disorder are serial killers. I have read in studies that in young boys there is a treshhold of the age of seven if they haven't attached to someone by then they may never attach to anyone correctly. My guy came at 7 but he was and is extremely immature for his age. He was on the cusp. In my opinion I believe they should be trying to intervene with these young men and not try to stockpile data. My childs therapist was and is willing to help in any way. I am sorry about going on so but I feel like I had a little bit to offer on the psyc. aspect or lack there of. In addition I am so sorry to the Harringtons and the Grahams.

 

[bakerlady]

Just wanted to leave this here in case others have not seen it.

I do want to tell you, Wolf, I spoke moments ago with a man who knows Jesse Matthew very well, and he shared this news with me -- that he worked as a bouncer. The gentleman with whom I spoke worked as a bouncer at a restaurant and bar where Jesse Matthew was a regular this past summer. And he told me, he said Coy, I had to ban him for about two months because I was concerned about the safety of the young women in the bar.”

“He said, Jesse had a type, blonde, preppy, a university girl, upper middle class and look for the drunkest among them,” he continued. “I told him, ‘Dude, you're going to get yourself in a world of trouble. These girls don't know who they're dealing with, and they don't know your intentions.’ He told him, you're not welcome here. You’ve made too many of the girls uncomfortable. I can't let you back in here. He finally did let him back in towards the end of the summer, because he kept pleading with him. But he said even then he would come by around at 1:30 at night at last call looking for the drunkest girl in the place. And they had to keep an eye on him. And he told me, quote, ‘He always came in looking for a victim.’”

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-...runkest-Girl-Regularly-at-Local-Bar-Last-Call

 

[bakerlady]

Because mere thanks aren't enough. Exactly how I feel. As someone who's spent a lot of time and effort in therapy overcoming childhood traumas and in that process swallowing a lot of pride in facing my own negative character traits, I have little sympathy for people who don't help themselves.

Some people are not able to help themselves. IF he had a brain injury perhaps his ability to reason was damaged. Much like people with brain injuries can not walk, or speak, some can not think properly. I'm still not sure what not being able to read well has to do with character....plenty of nice people have learning disabilities.

I guess I just fail to see the connections some people are making. I am in no way defending JLM, just trying to understand him.

 

[tlcya]

wow. Va Blue, thank you so much for sharing that. Great first post. May I say thank you for loving children, and for fighting to get your son the help he needs.

 

[jamicat]

These days to speak to a lot of people, read or hear their life stories, no one had a great childhood, easy time growing up. Just speaking with moms, it seems to me that so many kids have some sort of issue from LD, to depression to all sorts of things now labeled and cateogrized.

It really comes down to a big thick black line that a person must not cross if s/he is going to be permitted to be allowed to freely mingle in society. However you might fell, what ever you might think, in terms of right and wrong, you cannot go around harming others, because if you are caught, you will be put away for doing so.

 

[Moonchime]

moving my own over from the general hannah found thread to be more on topic - deleted the one at the general thread.

Quote Originally Posted by tlcya View Post
MOO, JM is no sociopath. He is simply a horrid person who felt great power and sadistic pleasure when controlling and terrorising young females. I think he often felt small and awkward and discovered a way to feel powerful and in control. A feeling he rather enjoyed and so continued to evolve into the predator we now see.~~~~~~~~

MOO. I am in agreement with you. I don't believe JM to be a sociopath either. I could be wrong though so feel free to disagree with me everyone.

The way I have been seeing it is this: JM found out at a young age that he was good at being an athlete. People cheered him. Everyone loved him. At least everyone loved the LJ that they perceived him to be.

It all went to his head. He felt entitled. He began to rape women when they said 'No." Or perhaps, he never bothered asking. He began to take what he wanted. He felt entitled because he was so good at what he did--regarding his athletic prowess.

Then, POOF! All of the adulation was gone. But, LJ didn't change. He was still an athlete in his own eyes.

This is MOO, but I think LJ saw preying on young women as a "Sport." One he couldn't really share with anyone else. Nor did he care to. He felt entitled as he always had. He continued on with his new "sport" until Hannah Graham. If not for being captured on CCV, not a single person would ever have suspected this "gentle giant" of anything. After all, he was a fixture and familiar face within the community. He perfected the helpful, gentle giant image and projected it to all of the people around him.

The monster within who enjoyed Controlling and torturing women, was well hidden until he was alone with the unfortunate women whom he preyed upon. The disappearances would have continued, if it hadn't been for the video footage of LJ with HG that fateful night/morning. And I suspect not one person who knew LJ would have cast even a suspicious look in his direction. What a frightening thought!

 

[teeandcee]

Some people are not able to help themselves. IF he had a brain injury perhaps his ability to reason was damaged. Much like people with brain injuries can not walk, or speak, some can not think properly.

He was not helpless. He had the reasoning abilities to stalk, kidnap, rape, murder and do many things to avoid detection. He was also able to fool pretty much everyone who knew him.

I'm still not sure what not being able to read well has to do with character....plenty of nice people have learning disabilities.

I'd like to see a quote where anyone has said this.