JLM: What Do We Know About Him? - #3

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Ollie said:
Judge David Schell will be trying case , allowing 2 wks (m-Th) for case in Fairfax;Defense has filed for discovery . As I watched the proceedings I saw JM talking to one of his lawyers(Camblos not present) ;so I'd say he's capable of assisting in his defense. He will be transferred back to C'ville for hearing on charges there. I still think he could very well cut a plea deal before Mar 9th. Always, just my opinion.
Click to expand...

I agree....
 
Concerned Mama said:
As a teacher, here's what I know about the education system in relation to IQ and qualifications for different placements in the system. It's been reported by acquaintances that JLM was in remedial reading classes. I do not know the exact nature of the class, or if it has even been verified, but here's what I know about who gets placed where and with what label. (PaulaP, please jump in at any time with facts you know :) ).

If JLM was labeled as "Learning Disabled" in reading, that means that there was at least a 15 point discrepancy between his numerical IQ score and the score at which he performed in reading. That's where "Exceptional Children" or EC status comes in. If JLM was labeled as EC with SLD in reading, he likely has a normal IQ, but a reading performance that would be in the very low range, even looking like "mentally disabled" in reading, and is not, in fact anywhere near his IQ/ability level. That would not mean that JLM is mentally disabled, though. It would simply mean he has a learning disability that interferes with his ability to process/comprehend written language.

If JLM were actually mentally disabled, with an IQ that was low enough to be in line with his reading performance scores, he would not be in a remedial reading course, most likely. Instead, he would be probably have been in a separate setting for his essential skills classes, including reading/language arts and math. Students who have an IQ this low rarely graduate with a high school diploma. They may be mainstreamed in regular classroom settings for classes like physical education, art, drama, and possibly even science and history, with huge modifications. For people who graduated around 2000, like JLM, the likelihood that a mentally disabled student would be completely mainstreamed in all classes, graduate with a regular high school diploma, and receive an athletic scholarship to a university is extremely unlikely. "Inclusion" or "least-restrictive learning environment" did not become standard until the past 5 years or so in most parts of the South. Terminology may vary from state to state, and possibly even categorizations of where the cut-off is for regular instruction with EC help vs. separate setting mentally disabled instruction, but what I've outlined is a general guideline in public schools.

So what is it I'm saying, in a nutshell? JLM may very well be learning disabled in written language, but the likelihood of his being of low IQ and meeting requirements for being mentally disabled, handicapped, "retarded," or whatever your terminology may be, is extremely slim.
Click to expand...

I just thought I'd chime in with a few musings from a recovering neuroscientist who used to study human memory and as a result did a lot of intelligence/neuropsych testing to correlate with other things in experiments and who has worked with people with a very wide range of neurological happenings, including alzheimer's, autism, schizophrenia, stroke, neurosurgery, etc..

First of all, "intelligence" doesn't equal "IQ". It sounds like semantics, but it's an important distinction. IQ testing was developed originally for figuring out what classes a student should take. It is possible to have an IQ that is normal and to be quite impaired on a lot of things that most people would associate with "intelligence" and vice versa. What exactly "intelligence" is is a matter of lots of debate that will keep many people employed for millenia.

What I observed in his hearing in Texas was someone with very poor verbal comprehension and very poor verbal fluency. Those are both frontal lobe functions. Of course, who knows if they gave him a tranquilizer, or if he was malingering, or what was going on, but if I encountered him in the lab talking like that and having such difficulty understanding very simple things like, "they will take your clothes off to examine you, and you will get them back," I would have immediately started to wonder if he'd had a frontal-lobe injury at some point.

Football and other sports can cause a lot of non-serious brain insults that in aggregate can result in a lot of damage over time. There doesn't have to be a single traumatic event for someone to have damage. Also, helmets are not fool-proof because a lot of what happens in a brain injury is that the brain is jarred within the skull and when the head is pushed backward at high velocity (or someone moving forward at high velocity is stopped abruptly), the brain hits the back of the skull and then is pulled forward and hits the front of the skull (sorry so graphic). I've seen a lot of cadaver brains in which this has happened. The damage can be diffuse and very hard to detect with imaging methods and once there are a few small injuries, there is a cascade of things that can start to happen that can make things worse over time, so you have degeneration that doesn't look like a single injury.

Anyway, this is a sort of long way of saying that even if he'd been a brilliant student in school, he could have sustained injuries from sports or something else (a car accident or really any head trauma) that could have continued to worsen over time and caused a pretty significant impairment by his early thirties. Not saying that's the case -- I'm certainly no insider -- but in what little I've heard him utter, I would say he is several standard deviations away from the mean in terms of verbal skills, at least what was observable in that one video from his hearing in Texas.

I have been sort of focusing on the frontal lobes (other than that if you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail, and I specialized in the frontal lobes) because a lot of anti-social behavior can result if you have frontal lobes that aren't working very well, since frontal lobes seem to inhibit impulses the "mammalian" brain. Like, right now, my frontal lobes are the only thing standing between me and a pizza.
 
'
Skigirl said:
I just thought I'd chime in with a few musings from a recovering neuroscientist who used to study human memory and as a result did a lot of intelligence/neuropsych testing to correlate with other things in experiments and who has worked with people with a very wide range of neurological happenings, including alzheimer's, autism, schizophrenia, stroke, neurosurgery, etc..

First of all, "intelligence" doesn't equal "IQ". It sounds like semantics, but it's an important distinction. IQ testing was developed originally for figuring out what classes a student should take. It is possible to have an IQ that is normal and to be quite impaired on a lot of things that most people would associate with "intelligence" and vice versa. What exactly "intelligence" is is a matter of lots of debate that will keep many people employed for millenia.

What I observed in his hearing in Texas was someone with very poor verbal comprehension and very poor verbal fluency. Those are both frontal lobe functions. Of course, who knows if they gave him a tranquilizer, or if he was malingering, or what was going on, but if I encountered him in the lab talking like that and having such difficulty understanding very simple things like, "they will take your clothes off to examine you, and you will get them back," I would have immediately started to wonder if he'd had a frontal-lobe injury at some point.

Football and other sports can cause a lot of non-serious brain insults that in aggregate can result in a lot of damage over time. There doesn't have to be a single traumatic event for someone to have damage. Also, helmets are not fool-proof because a lot of what happens in a brain injury is that the brain is jarred within the skull and when the head is pushed backward at high velocity (or someone moving forward at high velocity is stopped abruptly), the brain hits the back of the skull and then is pulled forward and hits the front of the skull (sorry so graphic). I've seen a lot of cadaver brains in which this has happened. The damage can be diffuse and very hard to detect with imaging methods and once there are a few small injuries, there is a cascade of things that can start to happen that can make things worse over time, so you have degeneration that doesn't look like a single injury.

Anyway, this is a sort of long way of saying that even if he'd been a brilliant student in school, he could have sustained injuries from sports or something else (a car accident or really any head trauma) that could have continued to worsen over time and caused a pretty significant impairment by his early thirties. Not saying that's the case -- I'm certainly no insider -- but in what little I've heard him utter, I would say he is several standard deviations away from the mean in terms of verbal skills, at least what was observable in that one video from his hearing in Texas.

I have been sort of focusing on the frontal lobes (other than that if you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail, and I specialized in the frontal lobes) because a lot of anti-social behavior can result if you have frontal lobes that aren't working very well, since frontal lobes seem to inhibit impulses the "mammalian" brain. Like, right now, my frontal lobes are the only thing standing between me and a pizza.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your informative post. I almost hate to bring this up because a couple of days ago when I merely mentioned that if a defendant is found to be mentally retarded, now referred to as "intellectually disabled", then they cannot receive the death penalty (in Virginia), which was then twisted (by some) to mean that I was saying that Jesse Matthew is, indeed, mentally ill. However, I will take a risk and share this information anyway. In an article I read just last night, it was stated that Jesse Matthew was placed in special education classes. Many here have stated that since Jesse managed to get into three universities he must have been qualified to do so. However, this same article said that a request to the NCAA to obtain Jesse Matthew's GPA and SAT and ACT scores was denied on the basis that information is exempt from disclosure. I am unable to post a link to this article so the best I can do is say IMO. I don't know what grades JLM was in when he was placed in special education classes so it is difficult to determine if there was an incident that might relate.
 
Skigirl said:
I just thought I'd chime in with a few musings from a recovering neuroscientist who used to study human memory and as a result did a lot of intelligence/neuropsych testing to correlate with other things in experiments and who has worked with people with a very wide range of neurological happenings, including alzheimer's, autism, schizophrenia, stroke, neurosurgery, etc..

First of all, "intelligence" doesn't equal "IQ". It sounds like semantics, but it's an important distinction. IQ testing was developed originally for figuring out what classes a student should take. It is possible to have an IQ that is normal and to be quite impaired on a lot of things that most people would associate with "intelligence" and vice versa. What exactly "intelligence" is is a matter of lots of debate that will keep many people employed for millenia.

What I observed in his hearing in Texas was someone with very poor verbal comprehension and very poor verbal fluency. Those are both frontal lobe functions. Of course, who knows if they gave him a tranquilizer, or if he was malingering, or what was going on, but if I encountered him in the lab talking like that and having such difficulty understanding very simple things like, "they will take your clothes off to examine you, and you will get them back," I would have immediately started to wonder if he'd had a frontal-lobe injury at some point.

Football and other sports can cause a lot of non-serious brain insults that in aggregate can result in a lot of damage over time. There doesn't have to be a single traumatic event for someone to have damage. Also, helmets are not fool-proof because a lot of what happens in a brain injury is that the brain is jarred within the skull and when the head is pushed backward at high velocity (or someone moving forward at high velocity is stopped abruptly), the brain hits the back of the skull and then is pulled forward and hits the front of the skull (sorry so graphic). I've seen a lot of cadaver brains in which this has happened. The damage can be diffuse and very hard to detect with imaging methods and once there are a few small injuries, there is a cascade of things that can start to happen that can make things worse over time, so you have degeneration that doesn't look like a single injury.

Anyway, this is a sort of long way of saying that even if he'd been a brilliant student in school, he could have sustained injuries from sports or something else (a car accident or really any head trauma) that could have continued to worsen over time and caused a pretty significant impairment by his early thirties. Not saying that's the case -- I'm certainly no insider -- but in what little I've heard him utter, I would say he is several standard deviations away from the mean in terms of verbal skills, at least what was observable in that one video from his hearing in Texas.

I have been sort of focusing on the frontal lobes (other than that if you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail, and I specialized in the frontal lobes) because a lot of anti-social behavior can result if you have frontal lobes that aren't working very well, since frontal lobes seem to inhibit impulses the "mammalian" brain. Like, right now, my frontal lobes are the only thing standing between me and a pizza.
Click to expand...

Just a little clarification. One standard deviation of the mean is 15 points. He cannot have several standard deviations.

100 is the mean. Going down, one is 85. 2 are 70. Mental retardation starts at 70 and below. There is no way he is below 70. He could read to pass a driver's test, for one thing. He went to college and stayed, for another
 
human said:
Just a little clarification. One standard deviation of the mean is 15 points. He cannot have several standard deviations.

100 is the mean. Going down, one is 85. 2 are 70. Mental retardation starts at 70 and below. There is no way he is below 70. He could read to pass a driver's test, for one thing. He went to college and stayed, for another
Click to expand...

Here's an article on the most recent Supreme Court decision for Virginia, Florida, and Kentucky:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...cda4f4-e5ab-11e3-8f90-73e071f3d637_story.html
 
4 Free Speech said:
I thought this was interesting also...just doing research looking for commonalities. :)

Does anyone know what JLM's grandfathers name is?

Carr] Davis, Eliza Timberlake. Carr Family of Isle of Wight and Nansemond Counties, Virginia. Berryville, Va.: Virginia, ca. 1950. Available at FHL. Available at Virginia Historical Society.
Click to expand...

Jesse Matthew's maternal grandfather was Louie Earnley Carr who does not appear to be related to the prominent George Carr and Anchorage Farm. JMOHO
 
ILOKAL said:
I.Q. Of 70 required in Maine to obtain Driver's License:

http://moviewriternyu.wordpress.com...s-minimum-iq-requirement-for-all-new-drivers/
Click to expand...

That article is from a blog from a screenwriter who calls himself The Modern Philosopher, clearly not MSM, and upon reading it, it is clearly meant to be a humor piece. I googled and can find nothing legit at all that indicates Maine, or any other state, has a minimum IQ requirement of 70 to obtain a drivers license. JMO

http://www.maine.gov/portal/family/driver_license.html
 
SteveP said:
This article is from a blog from a screenwriter who calls himself The Modern Philosopher, clearly not MSM, and upon reading it, it is clearly meant to be a humor piece. I googled and can find nothing legit at all that indicates Maine, or any other state, has a minimum IQ requirement of 70 to obtain a drivers license. JMO
Click to expand...

SteveP, I KNOW that! I posted it here since even the thought of it seemed fitting.
 
human said:
Just a little clarification. One standard deviation of the mean is 15 points. He cannot have several standard deviations.

100 is the mean. Going down, one is 85. 2 are 70. Mental retardation starts at 70 and below. There is no way he is below 70. He could read to pass a driver's test, for one thing. He went to college and stayed, for another
Click to expand...

Again - there is a difference between IQ and other tests of various cognitive abilities.
 
SteveP said:
This article is from a blog from a screenwriter who calls himself The Modern Philosopher, clearly not MSM, and upon reading it, it is clearly meant to be a humor piece. I googled and can find nothing legit at all that indicates Maine, or any other state, has a minimum IQ requirement of 70 to obtain a drivers license. JMO

http://www.maine.gov/portal/family/driver_license.html
Click to expand...

IQ does not equal "intelligence." Just because you have poor verbal abilities does not mean you would necessarily have a verbal IQ below 70. Also --- I don't know about Virginia, but in my state, you don't have to do anything verbal after the age of 16 to re-up your driver's license, which was sort of my point. He could have had an injury that would have continued to erode his verbal abilities without it bearing a close relationship to his previous abilities.
 
Skigirl said:
IQ does not equal "intelligence." Just because you have poor verbal abilities does not mean you would necessarily have a verbal IQ below 70. Also --- I don't know about Virginia, but in my state, you don't have to do anything verbal after the age of 16 to re-up your driver's license, which was sort of my point. He could have had an injury that would have continued to erode his verbal abilities without it bearing a close relationship to his previous abilities.
Click to expand...

I know. I was just responding to the post about Maine having an IQ requirement to obtain a drivers license, and pointing out that it was not a serious or factual article, for the benefit of those who may only look at the post header and scroll on by without reading the article.
 
Skigirl said:
What I observed in his hearing in Texas was someone with very poor verbal comprehension and very poor verbal fluency. Those are both frontal lobe functions. Of course, who knows if they gave him a tranquilizer, or if he was malingering, or what was going on, but if I encountered him in the lab talking like that and having such difficulty understanding very simple things like, "they will take your clothes off to examine you, and you will get them back," I would have immediately started to wonder if he'd had a frontal-lobe injury at some point.
.
Click to expand...

I just revisited the original articles, and JM asks about having "some kind of clothing". I think the judge thought he was inquiring only about his personal clothing when he was in actuality asking about a process that left him at times with no clothes in general. Once in Virginia, on September 28th, he is described in his jail cell as having only a blanket around him. This implies to me that he has routinely experienced having no clothing at all; not just his street clothes, but even a county issued jump suit.

The judge alluded to his receiving medical clearance prior to receiving his clothes back. I sense from reading this newer article that his not having any clothes has been a norm. It sounds to me like none of this was ever explained to him as it was happening, so I guess I can understand why he might ask the question and not quite understand the answer. If considered a suicide risk, why would he have periods of time where he had no clothing, even standard prison issue garb, yet be able to walk around his cell in a blanket? How is the blanket "suicide proof"? None of this, including the judge's explanation, makes sense to me, and I have not sustained any cumulative or acute insult to my frontal lobe. Just looking at the
larger picture.
 
Conductor71 said:
I just revisited the original articles, and JM asks about having "some kind of clothing". I think the judge thought he was inquiring only about his personal clothing when he was in actuality asking about a process that left him at times with no clothes in general. Once in Virginia, on September 28th, he is described in his jail cell as having only a blanket around him. This implies to me that he has routinely experienced having no clothing at all; not just his street clothes, but even a county issued jump suit.

The judge alluded to his receiving medical clearance prior to receiving his clothes back. I sense from reading this newer article that his not having any clothes has been a norm. It sounds to me like none of this was ever explained to him as it was happening, so I guess I can understand why he might ask the question and not quite understand the answer. If considered a suicide risk, why would he have periods of time where he had no clothing, even standard prison issue garb, yet be able to walk around his cell in a blanket? How is the blanket "suicide proof"? None of this, including the judge's explanation, makes sense to me, and I have not sustained any cumulative or acute insult to my frontal lobe. Just looking at the
larger picture.
Click to expand...

BBM.

Lol... Well, I haven't quite figured out if in fact he is in isolation b/c of suicide risk. I seem to think no. But I really don't have any reason to think this other than my own gut. I tend to think maybe it has to do with a mental issue/medical problem. I was digging around as to why someone in prison is put in "isolation" and there can only be so many reasons. Uncooperativeness doesn't seem to be applicable here, so I wonder if a mental issue is. I remember something floating around at some point that he had a medical issue (?) I have no link for that... only a vague recollection in the recent months of reading that on a thread somewhere. Could also be he has been threatened.

In any case, I am confused as well as to why a witness said he was wrapped in a blanket shortly after his arrest. I can't imagine prison uniforms not being offered as status quo. And yes, a blanket seems just as much a potential threat as clothing to me if in fact he is a risk to himself.
 
Conductor71 said:
I just revisited the original articles, and JM asks about having "some kind of clothing". I think the judge thought he was inquiring only about his personal clothing when he was in actuality asking about a process that left him at times with no clothes in general. Once in Virginia, on September 28th, he is described in his jail cell as having only a blanket around him. This implies to me that he has routinely experienced having no clothing at all; not just his street clothes, but even a county issued jump suit.

The judge alluded to his receiving medical clearance prior to receiving his clothes back. I sense from reading this newer article that his not having any clothes has been a norm. It sounds to me like none of this was ever explained to him as it was happening, so I guess I can understand why he might ask the question and not quite understand the answer. If considered a suicide risk, why would he have periods of time where he had no clothing, even standard prison issue garb, yet be able to walk around his cell in a blanket? How is the blanket "suicide proof"? None of this, including the judge's explanation, makes sense to me, and I have not sustained any cumulative or acute insult to my frontal lobe. Just looking at the
larger picture.
Click to expand...

I believe this was a rumor started by another inmate who was then released and spoke to the media. If this is not the case, please do provide a link if you have one, because it would be very interesting to me that he has been without clothing or a jumpsuit since his incarceration.
 
This is insane folks;when inmates are on intake process in the jail system,all belongings are taken away,body cavity searches are routine ;the inmate goes thru medical screening and placed in holding cells; where they are classified before being moved to general housing ,where they are given underwear, jumpsuits,and flip-flops and blankets. Because of JM's charges and high profile status he would be placed in isolation,a single cell room. He is not left naked. Isolation can be for several different reasons,can be requested by inmate if they feel personal safety is an issue, or if the inmate is a threat to others,or if they break the rules for punishment(fighting and unruly behavior) Please don't feel sorry for JM, if he likes the attention and wants to be treated special it won't happen in jail.
 
Ollie said:
This is insane folks;when inmates are on intake process in the jail system,all belongings are taken away,body cavity searches are routine ;the inmate goes thru medical screening and placed in holding cells; where they are classified before being moved to general housing ,where they are given underwear, jumpsuits,and flip-flops and blankets. Because of JM's charges and high profile status he would be placed in isolation,a single cell room. He is not left naked. Isolation can be for several different reasons,can be requested by inmate if they feel personal safety is an issue, or if the inmate is a threat to others,or if they break the rules for punishment(fighting and unruly behavior) Please don't feel sorry for JM, if he likes the attention and wants to be treated special it won't happen in jail.
Click to expand...

Yep, not feeling sorry for him over here. So do you have any thoughts on why JM (specifically) is in isolation? And do they typically take away certain types of clothing if the isolation is due to personal threat to themselves?
 
MJPeony said:
Yep, not feeling sorry for him over here. So do you have any thoughts on why JM (specifically) is in isolation? And do they typically take away certain types of clothing if the isolation is due to personal threat to themselves?
Click to expand...
:twocents: The most important thing now is to make sure JLM is alive and well to enable the legal system to fully prosecute him for all the heinous crimes he has committed and bring justice to all of the families that he has violated. The jails and prisons are not always the safest places, and anything that might interfere with the lengthy process of several trials would prevent this justice from being served. I believe that at this juncture that means keeping JLM in isolation. Also I think it might serve to help promote his willingness to talk. IDK, JMO etc.
He may very well have been walking around with just a blanket by his own choice. (Ariel Castro) His alcohol consumption reportedly was pretty high and who knows what ever else he was taking. He may have been sweating from drying out while in jail. I believe a lot of his change in appearance has to do with a leaner diet, devoid of drugs and alcohol. :boohoo: IDK, JMHO, etc etc.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

DNASolves

Who is DeKalb County John Doe (2022)?

Members online

... and 135 more.
Total: 1,928 (members: 136, guests: 1,792)

Online statistics

Members online
136
Guests online
1,792
Total visitors
1,928
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
601,382
Messages
18,124,034
Members
231,040
Latest member
Lizakind
Back
Top