jodi Arias TAKES THE STAND #51 *may contain graphic and adult content*

[Sustained]

According to the ME the heart stab was first.

Imo She surprised him and as he tried to get up she did the rest of the frontal wounds and probably the wound to the palms of his hands.... He made it to the sink... She continued to stab at his back...he ended up crawling down that hall with her stabbing his head...his hands trying to cover his head at some point....finally she grabs his hair, yanks his head back...and ..you know..

IMO


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So why then, after the neck slice, did Arias shoot him at a distance instead of putting the gun up against TA's head to finish him off ?
He certainly would have been incapacitated from the neck wound ...

 

[bobloblaw]

But she didnt start by stabbing his heart..right? Because he was able to stand at the sink and move down the hallway? So initially she was stabbing him in less deadly areas. I think he was incapacitated already, when those wounds were being inflicted.

But I could be wrong. Nothing she does makes any sense, so I don't know why I even bother trying to figure her out.

I don't know the medical terms, but the stab wound just grazed his heart or the sack around it and he would have bled to death in a couple minutes anyway. (if I remember the testimony)

 

[popsicle]

As for hand defensive wounds, how do you explain no DNA in any of his fingernails?

They are defensive wounds not offensive wounds. jmo

 

[carnnell]

She had the upper hand and the knife. You think he should have scratched her???

You saw the huge gashes in his hands?


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IMHO, The biggest weapon she had was the element of surprise!!!

 

[minor4th]

He was not able to show that she was not able to be there 'at all' that day. But he will be able to show that it didn't happen the way she first said. She made it seem like a long drawn out visit, where she helped him move boxes, and he gave her a poreciln angel, and they ' hung out' for awhile, then she left in her car, but returned soon after, and found him in his pedophile mode. And then she ran out, drove home, threw up, cried and cried, refused to answerr his many desperate attempts to call her...bla bla boa.

He was able to call BS on that scenario. She did not go to work at the early shift, he showed she went in at 10:30 to cover someone else. If she worked a full shift that would have her leaving at 5 or 6 pm/ But a shorter shift it would be 3 or 4. Even if she did arrive at his house at 4:30 or so, there are other issues that come up with the texts. If she had gone to his house already, then why didnt they exchange cars then? And if she was so upset about him liking little boys, why even bother texting him about a car exchange? That would be the last thing on her mind.

She tried to make it sound like Travis was the one wanting to switch cars. But if you read the texts, it was HER asking for the favor, not him.

And he tripped her up when she tried to convince the jury it was all set up weeks before. She had to do that because there must not have been any calls between them that she could use to verify her BS.
Who makes 'plans' to move Christmas decorations to the attic weeks earlier? And he had 2 male room mates. Why would he need Jodi's help?
He will be able to cast a lot of doubt on that scenario she tried to paint. Nothing that he has brought forth matches with her version of events. And she said ' what about if he called from his landline?' It would still show on her phone records as incoming. So that is more Jodi deflections and fabrications.

Jodi said she went over in the afternoon, after she got off work. She would not commit to what time she got off work, but like you said, if she went in at 10:30 and only worked 4 hours, then she gets off work at 2:30. It is a minimum 25 minute drive from Mimi's to Travis' house (see google maps link: http://goo.gl/maps/i0gyE), putting Jodi at Travis' house at 3:00 p.m. at the very earliest.

From 3:00 p.m, she had 53 minutes to arrive, go in and help him pack boxes in the attic - she said she was handing him boxes while he took them up to the attic; receive the porcelain angel from him (and didn't he sign it or something), "hang out" and put the angel down long enough to forget it when she left; leave and drive away, remember the angel and drive back to Travis' house, go inside, walk upstairs, and see Travis engaged in masturbatory conduct; freak out, cry, and get back in her car to leave.

Then she called him twice before he responds. And the content of the messages that evening indicate that Jodi was not there at all that afternoon. It looks to me like Jodi called Travis around 4, probably when she got off work, and she did not see him before FHE. I think she went back over there that night after Travis said he couldn't talk.

Here are the text messages and phone calls from Jan 21, with the time between the afternoon calls/texts inserted for reference :

1/21/08-3:53pm- Jodi calls Travis
(16 minutes)
1/21/08- 4:09pm- Jodi calls Travis
(20 minutes)
1/21/08-4:29pm- Travis returns Jodi’s call
(24 minutes)
1/21/08-4:53pm- Jodi calls Travis
(1 minute)
1/21/08-4:54pm -Travis returns Jodi’s call
(17 minutes)
1/21/08-5:11pm - Travis returns Jodi’s call
(9 minutes)
1/21/08-5:20pm- Travis calls Jodi
(18 minutes)
1/21/08-5:38pm- Jodi says: I can’t remember am I coming in for u on Wed at 10:30?
(10 minutes)
1/21/08 -5:48pm -Travis calls Jodi
(5 minutes)
1/21/08 -5:53pm -Jodi returns Travis’s call
(48 minutes)
1/21/08-6:41pm- Jodi says: Can we trade cars before FHE?

1/21/08-7:19pm- Jodi says: Never mind. One of the stores I need to go to closes at 8pm. I’ll just go tomorrow.

1/21/08-7:20pm- Jodi resends 7:19pm text message

1/21/08-7:24pm- Travis says: I got a ride from some peeps in the ward now you can just go get it. Let me know when you made the exchange.

1/21/08-7:25pm- Jodi says: I’m almost asleep. Well see Zzz…

1/21/08-7:27pm- Travis says: You obviously don’t need it that bad. I got a ride so you could go get the car. Now you’re going to sleep?

1/21/08-7:29pm- Jodi says: I fell asleep and a phone call woke me up. That’s when I sent u the text.

1/21/08-7:36pm- Jodi says: I have a really bad headache. I can barely move.

1/21/08-9:11pm- Travis says: Alright get it tomorrow then.

1/21/08-9:16pm- Jodi says: Can you talk right now?

1/21/08-9:17pm- Travis says: Not right now

 

[Morning Glory]

I have always found it hard to believe that JA would have shot TA in the head in order to “finish him off”.
I believe JA went to Mesa to kill TA and she carried a gun and a knife or knives with her.

JA had to choose a time to kill TA; that is, she was waiting for an opportunity.
One candidate would have been tying up TA during sex.
JA sagaciously thought about “offing him “ in the shower. So JA dressed packed and got her weapons in place ie into pants pockets and then posed as the “shower photographer”. She lured him into a vulnerable position while in the shower.

Diversion=
TA was physically larger more agile than JA. TA was athletic – a wrestler. So a direct attack at him would likely have been problematic and uncertain. If JA had attacked TA and failed the entire enterprise would have ended in a disaster.

If TA had access to both a gun and a knife why in the world would you use a knife to initiate an attack on a victim that was both larger and stronger than you??

It makes NO sense.

I see your point but I still believe it's possible. This was a crime of passion, I think the choice of weapon was a manner of opportunity. A sudden stab to the heart is more personal and allows him to see her rage and expression of vengeance. As many others have surmised, he didn't go down as quickly as Jodi anticipated so she kept going and perhaps shot him when although he was deceased his body continued to make noise, or just out of continued rage.

 

[sleuth21]

Hi all, new here. 1st post.

I think that it had to be obvious to the jury that she was dancing around that issue, and talking in circles. You can't say that someone was expecting you because, sometime in the past, you discussed visiting without firming up a date. She wanted to paint the picture that she wasn't just dropping by out of the blue like some crazystalkerlady, while still claiming that he was engaging in illicit "masterbatorial conduct," (thanks JM, for the new phrase) so she had to also make it seem that he wasn't expecting her at just that moment, but still expecting her in general. Exhausted yet? In short, it sounds ridiculous because it is ridiculous.

Even if we pushed aside how this all lacks logic, Travis doesn't remotely fit the profile of a pedophile. Those two things make her come across as the liar that she is and if you can't believe her on one thing (especially something this significant) you can't believe her on anything, imo.

I have always found it hard to believe that JA would have shot TA in the head in order to “finish him off”.
I believe JA went to Mesa to kill TA and she carried a gun and a knife or knives with her.

JA had to choose a time to kill TA; that is, she was waiting for an opportunity.
One candidate would have been tying up TA during sex.
JA sagaciously thought about “offing him “ in the shower. So JA dressed packed and got her weapons in place ie into pants pockets and then posed as the “shower photographer”. She lured him into a vulnerable position while in the shower.

Diversion=
TA was physically larger more agile than JA. TA was athletic – a wrestler. So a direct attack at him would likely have been problematic and uncertain. If JA had attacked TA and failed the entire enterprise would have ended in a disaster.

If JA had access to both a gun and a knife why in the world would she use a knife to initiate an attack on a victim that was both larger and stronger than she was?? Even with the element of surprise an opening knife thrust to the chest or body would have been very very RISKY.

It makes NO sense.

Given a choice of weapons you merely pull out a gun and shoot TA in the head FIRST. With this lethal wound, normally you would be done with it and the murder completed inside the shower stall. Unfortunately JA did not aim correctly and did not kill him with the first shot. The head shot did not render him unconscious.
(I maintain the shell casing was disturbed and moved from its initial resting place during the ensuing melee)


IMPROBABLILITY OF SHOOT LAST

JA successfully plunges a knife into TA chest and back over 20 times. Then because TA still would not die JA straddles him; pulls his neck up and slices his throat open with a single stroke from TA left to right.
He exsanguinates over a minute or so.
The scene is horrendously bloody. The effort needed to kill him was vastly underestimated. TA 185 lbs body is lying bloodied in the bedroom. JA needs to pick up the corpse by the shoulders and drag him some 5 yards back into the bathroom. This scenario has complicated her clean kill and escape fantasy.

JA manages to get the corpse back into the bathroom. WHY, oh, WHY would you take out a gun to finish him off – since he was already very much dead? JA ‘s interests were to kill him and quickly get on the road towards SLC.

Makes NO SENSE.

JA hands and fingers were saturated with slippery blood. Why take out a gun, *advertiser censored* it, and shoot with slippery hands??? By this time JA was certainly in a state of panic. She had a bloody mess to attend to PLUS she had to insure that there was NOTHING implicating her or “putting JA at the crime scene”. Why do something gratuitous devoid of any value?

I've wondered why she would take the risk of stabbing first which would require her to get awfully close to someone much stronger who could overpower her. However, I'm convinced that she intended to use 2 weapons all along to make it look like a 2 person job.

 

[Pensfan]

I'm a "disbeliever" in the "he was shot first" theory.

Before slitting Travis' right jugular vein and right carotid artery, Travis only had one potentially lethal stab wound. This was the deeper stab to his right chest causing a hemothorax (created a hole in his lung which begin to fill with blood). Once Jodi penetrated his right lung, Travis began to experience an extreme shortage of air and he began coughing profusely. He was no longer able to successfully defend himself.

As Travis was gasping for breath and coughing up blood everywhere, Jodi stabbed him repeatedly, but she only penetrated muscle (the autopsy stated the wounds were not greater than 1.5 inches depth).

As Travis crawled down the hall, Jodi mounted him and slit his throat. This would not have immediately killed Travis though. He would have continued to gurgle and sputter for air until his circulatory system failed. This could have taken a few minutes. Jodi pulled Travis back into the shower where Travis gurgled and gasped until Jodi shot him in the head.

(The blood all over the walls is from Travis' hemothorax and the coughing.)

Pensfan
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

 

[seguek9]

Every time I wonder about how she cleaned up after this slaughter, I keep going back to her testimony where she enlightened us about the "sex" they had in the office and he "told" her to go clean up after he &@#* on her back (her lower back). I thought there might be something sinister behind that ... although now that we know she is the murderer, what would be the reason for a cover-up. I wish I was smarter. I just don't know why she had to disclose that in her testimony .... "he told her to go clean up in the downstairs bathroom" .... but then again - it is hard to get into a "sick" person's mind and understand "their" logic.

Oh and BTW ... this makes me feel a little weird, but where do I find those creepy NUDE photos of Arias ... they sound pretty graphic and weird ... just want to have a "peek" .... so to speak ... Eeeeew!!

Remember...once you've seen them- you cant un-see them...actually only one of them is truly eye-melting Imo....I cant post a link through my kindle for some reason-- but thought id give fair warning ... :what: you can Google "arias nude " if noone posts a direct link HTH

 

[elmomom]

And why the heck does she have a right to this privacy? Legal people?

Not a legal person, and just a guess, was this during the time she was acting as her own attorney? I think they do give you privacy when you are doing "legal" work.

 

[Linda7NJ]

So why then, after the neck slice, did Arias shoot him at a distance instead of putting the gun up against TA's head to finish him off ?
He certainly would have been incapacitated from the neck wound ...

IMO it wasn't to finish him off. It was part of staging the crime to make it appear more than one person was involved.

Ask yourself, why both a gun and a knife?

In her first interview she was talking up how strong Travis was...




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[minor4th]

Did you notice that he doesn't "threaten her " until AFTER she shot him?
So, even if it happened as she says, the gunshot is not SD.

Yes, I did notice that - despite her attorney trying to get her to say that he threatened her before she shot him and that she was scared for her life.

Nope, the gunshot was not self defense -- I think they're going for a manslaughter instruction to the jury.

 

[Zuri]

There was also a Defense Motion to Allow the Jury to Consider Polygraph Results during Sentancing Phase. What is that all about? For real?

 

[Linda7NJ]

I have always found it hard to believe that JA would have shot TA in the head in order to “finish him off”.
I believe JA went to Mesa to kill TA and she carried a gun and a knife or knives with her.

JA had to choose a time to kill TA; that is, she was waiting for an opportunity.
One candidate would have been tying up TA during sex.
JA sagaciously thought about “offing him “ in the shower. So JA dressed packed and got her weapons in place ie into pants pockets and then posed as the “shower photographer”. She lured him into a vulnerable position while in the shower.

Diversion=
TA was physically larger more agile than JA. TA was athletic – a wrestler. So a direct attack at him would likely have been problematic and uncertain. If JA had attacked TA and failed the entire enterprise would have ended in a disaster.

If JA had access to both a gun and a knife why in the world would she use a knife to initiate an attack on a victim that was both larger and stronger than she was?? Even with the element of surprise an opening knife thrust to the chest or body would have been very very RISKY.

It makes NO sense.

Given a choice of weapons you merely pull out a gun and shoot TA in the head FIRST. With this lethal wound, normally you would be done with it and the murder completed inside the shower stall. Unfortunately JA did not aim correctly and did not kill him with the first shot. The head shot did not render him unconscious.
(I maintain the shell casing was disturbed and moved from its initial resting place during the ensuing melee)


IMPROBABLILITY OF SHOOT LAST

JA successfully plunges a knife into TA chest and back over 20 times. Then because TA still would not die JA straddles him; pulls his neck up and slices his throat open with a single stroke from TA left to right.
He exsanguinates over a minute or so.
The scene is horrendously bloody. The effort needed to kill him was vastly underestimated. TA 185 lbs body is lying bloodied in the bedroom. JA needs to pick up the corpse by the shoulders and drag him some 5 yards back into the bathroom. This scenario has complicated her clean kill and escape fantasy.

JA manages to get the corpse back into the bathroom. WHY, oh, WHY would you take out a gun to finish him off – since he was already very much dead? JA ‘s interests were to kill him and quickly get on the road towards SLC.

Makes NO SENSE.

JA hands and fingers were saturated with slippery blood. Why take out a gun, *advertiser censored* it, and shoot with slippery hands??? By this time JA was certainly in a state of panic. She had a bloody mess to attend to PLUS she had to insure that there was NOTHING implicating her or “putting JA at the crime scene”. Why do something gratuitous devoid of any value?

IMO psychopaths never panic... There was no panic that day except for poor Travis.


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[oceanblueeyes]

Zeno49, I respect your opinion but honestly it MAKES NO SENSE that the shot to the brain came first based on the evidence entered into trial. Including the photos that were taken by mistake.

Just my humble opinion though along with ME Horn.

UIMO

 

[Really?]

Since an internet search engine brought me to these Arias threads & a posting about the accused's planets, I assume an astrological comment is acceptable. Of course I charted the event of the murder since we had the rare benefit of a time stamp for that. A powerful malefic Fixed Star was rising, Serpentis, known as a "pest & terror to society". That certainly resembles the opinion of defendant Arias among the victim's
friends, relatives and associates. This rising degree is ruled by both Mars and Pluto.


Mars was in the House of Travel and the progressed Sun of Arias was with it, both at
14° Leo.
Deny it she may but we already know that Travis Alexander's trip to Cancun was an
inflammatory issue between them. You will not be at all surprised to know that the event chart tells us that Arias deliberately chose the moment her victim was nude, wet and indisposed, to strike, Venus combust the Sun ruling him in opportunity sextile to her, Mars 14° Leo. (Sun 14:44 II, Venus 13:37 II). When we are combust, we are unable to act as we would choose to, incapacitated. Mercury, the intent in this event, is on the House of Homicide. The Moon in Cancer is far inside that Homicide House and opposite the other Arias ruler, Pluto. The Moon at 2° 01' Cancer is again in opportunity sextile with Saturn at 2° 37' Virgo in the House of Execution. Uranus sits in the House of Endings, at the same degree as the lunar nodes, denoting fatality.
The chart decidedly does NOT show that the camera was dropped, another fabrication. The Cancer Moon (Sun Sign of Arias) was Out of Bounds that day and Mars and Pluto were contra-parallel: a single minded, focused premeditation to kill.

I'll go with that.....will she get the DP ??:waitasec:

 

[paperwing]

You also notice the bruising around the stab wounds?
His heart was pumping.

I am not directing this at anyone in particular but I unfortunately
have seen a gunshot wound immediately as it happened (my husband)

The blood was pooling under the skin after about 20 seconds.
FASTER than I could sit him down elevate the arm and grab a towel..

HEAD wounds bleed even worse.
IMO the gun was for the roomie if he showed up.

He was "breaking" her heart... ick she has no heart.
I think she always planned to stab him i the heart first

BBM

I'm sorry for your experience but thank you for your insights.

Really interesting point about the gun being brought in the house for a potential run in with an unexpected roommate... making the coup de grace shot to Travis' forehead just that much more sick and depraved - a disturbing afterthought if your suggestion proved true. Unfortunately, there will always be more unanswered questions than (I for one) will satisfy, but that's the nature of the beast, I suppose.

JA was extremely cautious about the roommates whereabouts or schedule that day, so I wouldn't be surprised if she was prepared to 'deal' with them (or anyone) who may have arrived unexpectedly.

I absolutely believe she was fully capable of 'eliminating' any 'surprise' obstacles or witnesses - particular in the time immediately before, during and after the murder, even if she didn't plan ahead for such a complication.

 

[manzana]

She had the upper hand and the knife. You think he should have scratched her???

You saw the huge gashes in his hands?


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No I think he should have knocked her the *uck out, maybe he was too nice. No way do I think Jodi could have the upper hand UNLESS he was sleeping, not with a knife at least.

 

[gwenabob]

I'm a "disbeliever" in the "he was shot first" theory.

Before slitting Travis' right jugular vein and right carotid artery, Travis only had one potentially lethal stab wound. This was the deeper stab to his right chest causing a hemothorax (created a hole in his lung which begin to fill with blood). Once Jodi penetrated his right lung, Travis began to experience an extreme shortage of air and he began coughing profusely. He was no longer able to successfully defend himself.

As Travis was gasping for breath and coughing up blood everywhere, Jodi stabbed him repeatedly, but she only penetrated muscle (the autopsy stated the wounds were not greater than 1.5 inches depth).

As Travis crawled down the hall, Jodi mounted him and slit his throat. This would not have immediately killed Travis though. He would have continued to gurgle and sputter for air until his circulatory system failed. This could have taken a few minutes. Jodi pulled Travis back into the shower where Travis gurgled and gasped until Jodi shot him in the head.

(The blood all over the walls is from Travis' hemothorax and the coughing.)

Pensfan
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

^^^^^this is exactly what I think happened.^^^^^

 

[Linda7NJ]

No I think he should have knocked her the *uck out, maybe he was too nice. No way do I think Jodi could have the upper hand UNLESS he was sleeping, not with a knife at least.

Did you see the second to the last picture of him taken alive?


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