Jodi Arias; the sequence of events

[wasnt_me]

:furious: are you trying to destroy my theory? :what:

Just looking for the truth. :rocker:

 

[deedee21]

According to ME Travis would have gone down and would have been incapacitated if he was shot first. He said Travis would have not been able to try and defend himself. There would have been no defensive wounds. He said the bullet did hit his brain. Cutting his throat also would have incapacitaded him. He believes he was shot last.

 

[katydid23]

How about coming out of a shower with wet feet, wet hands, wet everything and trying to pick her up to body slam her and somehow he remains standing. That is some fete. jmo

First he body slams her, with the intent to kill her. Then after she is slammed to the tile floor, she is able to just 'roll away' without being stopped by this angry wrestler who is trying to murder her. And then she runs down the hall and into the closet, but he doesn't ever catch up with her. Even though he is a ' ' ball of fury' that wants to slaughter her, he cannot manage to catch up to her, in a tiny cramped bathroom hallway.

If he was truly trying to kill her, why didnt he go to the closet and grab the gun in the first place?

 

[wasnt_me]

Definitely all on tile. I just can't figure out whether it is more likely the pool of blood got on the carpet before or after this photo. If the pool of blood got there afterwards, TA must've somehow moved himself there as I think JA was trying to stop him from getting there. If the blood got there before, why is JA standing between TA and the bedroom? I would think she would try to drag TA back to the bathroom by his feet.



The smear I'm thinking of is the long smear on the left hallway wall as you face the bathroom. It is shown in the crime scene photos, but this smear is not visible in the first bleeding photo. It would be interesting to see how that smear aligns with the position of TA in that photo. It looks like there could be a close correspondence, but I always imagined that TA would've created this smear as he fell forward moving away from the bathroom. But, in this photo, TA is on his back.



I think the smear I'm thinking of and the palm print were found on the same wall. I could be wrong though.

The palm print cut out on the wall is on the right side if you are looking down the hallway toward the bathroom. The swipe we are discussing is on the left beside the carpet pool of blood. She could have done that palm print after she turned Travis around and dragged him back.

I have questions as to whether the camera angel was taken facing the bathroom or the bedroom, but JM said it was facing the bathroom and Jodi agreed to that, so....

As for why she'd be standing there because she should drag him with his feet, as I said above, JM has theorized that they were still on the way up the hallway to the bathroom. If she'd actually dragging in that photo and not still fighting him up the hallway, I'd assume he'd gotten hung up against the wall as all the sliding blood on the baseboards might indicate, and she went to his head to straighten out his body and then she'd go back to his feet to drag him.

But if you look at the baseboards and the blood splatter on them, you might be able to determine which side of the hallway the pictures were taken on for certain and exactly where they were at that point. I just can't find photos that show what I'm saying but also orient the direction of the hallway.

Yeah, again, being on his back is problematic to how the smear happened and how he got on the carpet. Unless, like I think you might have said, she had SO much blood on her that she smeared the wall dragging him? I don't know. Is that likely? I still don't 100% buy that his throat was slashed until he was on the carpet. She could have started trying to slash it, making that blood appear, but he was able to fight more, which made the wall smear, and she finally got him back down on the carpet to finish it?

What made the camera snap that photo? Jodi looks like she's standing still over him or is she stepping her left leg back, which hit the camera?

 

[molly333]

" it looks like he attacked her.."

What makes it look like he attacked her? He was sitting down in the shower with a scared look on his face---seconds later he is shot in the head.

I don't think the defense has shown the jury anything to make them believe he attacked her. JMO

" she didn't premeditate it.."

She did premeditate her secret trip to Arizona. Why would she go to such great lengths to hide that visit to Travis's if she had no nefarious plans?

" she spontaneously grabs a knife to defend herself.."

Were the wounds in his back self defense? And how does she spontaneously grab a knife? She had no injuries herself. How could it be a fight for her own life and she has no bruises, or broken bones, other than the cvut she got from using the knife to stab him?

As long as you understand you are asking me to defend something I don't believe, I could defend it--

What makes it look like he attacked her?

He's sitting in the shower and then the camera goes kaflooey. That's when he jumps out of the shower at her and throws her to the floor. She gets up and grabs the knife because she thinks he's going to kill her and the rest is history. The knife is there from cutting the rope earlier.


She did premeditate her secret trip to Arizona. Why would she go to such great lengths to hide that visit to Travis's if she had no nefarious plans?

Travis told her, like he did so many times before, to hide her visit, especially from her new boyfriend Ryan, and she complied. The gas was in case she ran out in the desert on the way to Ryan's. The phone battery charger really went missing.


Were the wounds in his back self defense? And how does she spontaneously grab a knife? She had no injuries herself. How could it be a fight for her own life and she has no bruises, or broken bones, other than the cvut she got from using the knife to stab him

Wounds in his back-- He had a bear hold on her and she reached around his back with the knife trying to get him to break the hold [defense brought this up]. She had no major injuries no matter what you call it. It just worked out that way. She probably had bruises. It wasn't proven that she didn't. She was wearing long sleeves in the middle of summer with Ryan. She just grabbed the knife off the bathroom counter where it was left earlier.

How'd I do?:seeya:


The real reason she wasn't hurt at all is because poor Travis was so disabled by the gunshot wound in the shower he could never mount a real defense against her. IMO :furious:

 

[wasnt_me]

Sorry for being a wet blanket. No KY on me though.

omg. Busted out laughing! Thanks! :floorlaugh:

 

[katydid23]

Remember with a circumstantial case, you are required to look for an innocent explanation for each circumstantial piece because we have the presumption of innocence.

I can find an innocent explanation for each circumstantial piece of evidence he uses to show premeditation, including the gun, because, according to him, she did not kill him with the gun.

On the hand hand, if she starts by stealing a gun, and ends by killing him with that very same gun, then everything in between turns very strongly in favor of premeditation.

The gun is his strongest puzzle piece for premeditation and he throws the gun in the trash.

IMO

It doesn't matter which exact wound did the final damage. She shot him in the head. Imo, it does not matter if it was the first or last attack on him. She stole a gun from her grandfather with the intent to kill Travis. And she succeeded in doing that. She hid her trip to Arizona and shot Travis in the head, and stabbed him numerous times. It does not matter which happened first, imo. She obviously meant for him to DIE.

 

[wasnt_me]

SS...

One problem is we are looking at pictures of pictures, not the best quality. Apparently with the actual photo JM had it shows more clearly the cap wasn't visible and Melendez answered accordingly. I still think they are laying on two different bedspreads all within 50 sec with (perhaps one with a cap one without) with the KY facing in two different directions. I'm hoping to see in rebuttal why this question was asked.

Looking at the bedspreads, are they the same or not? What do you think? Anyone?

I think comforters often look different than the sheets beneath (even if they match) and it's possible they pulled back the comforter in this 50 seconds.

 

[katydid23]

As long as you understand you are asking me to defend something I don't believe, I could defend it--

What makes it look like he attacked her?

He's sitting in the shower and then the camera goes kaflooey. That's when he jumps out of the shower at her and throws her to the floor. She gets up and grabs the knife because she thinks he's going to kill her and the rest is history. The knife is there from cutting the rope earlier.


She did premeditate her secret trip to Arizona. Why would she go to such great lengths to hide that visit to Travis's if she had no nefarious plans?

Travis told her, like he did so many times before, to hide her visit, especially from her new boyfriend Ryan, and she complied. The gas was in case she ran out in the desert on the way to Ryan's. The phone battery charger really went missing.


Were the wounds in his back self defense? And how does she spontaneously grab a knife? She had no injuries herself. How could it be a fight for her own life and she has no bruises, or broken bones, other than the cvut she got from using the knife to stab him

Wounds in his back-- He had a bear hold on her and she reached around his back with the knife trying to get him to break the hold [defense brought this up]. She had no major injuries no matter what you call it. It just worked out that way. She probably had bruises. It wasn't proven that she didn't. She was wearing long sleeves in the middle of summer with Ryan. She just grabbed the knife off the bathroom counter where it was left earlier.

How'd I do?:seeya:


The real reason she wasn't hurt at all is because poor Travis was so disabled by the gunshot wound in the shower he could never mount a real defense against her. IMO :furious:

You did a good enough job to join the defense team. >lol

I don't think the jury is going to buy it though. Why would you jump up and kill someone over a camera that wasn't even broken?

And they did a horrible job at trying to convince anyone of the previous 'attacks' by Travis. I don't think anyone believe her about that. Especially the way she suddenly threw in that last one, the choking incident. Never mentioned before, but suddenly throws it out there as if it was true.

I think her latest attempt to throw in new info, when she tried to put the knife in TA's hand BACKFIRED big time. Even she knew that was a hamhanded attempt to add a new layer of BS.

 

[wasnt_me]

Just wanted to make a few points backing BW0000's theory about the pics of 6/4/08: * please read, BW0000 & Sleuth5:

1. We all know Travis was human and Travis was weak: Which is why he continued to engage in the kinky sex with JA, long after he knew she was really not someone he wanted to be involved with.

2. And yet, as BW0000 points out, the email of May 26 had an air of finality about it. We know that it's said that stalkers often escalate to rage and violence when a final break is made - even though, ironically, you are indeed supposed to break with them.

3. Travis took Jodi's name off the Cancun trip, and replaced it with Mimi's. Mimi had said they should go only as friends due to Travis' admited status of being "temple unworthy".

4. We know such a status came from having come clean to Church elders. This is not a light matter: He has allowed those he serves and respects to know of his mistake with Jodi, and he is willing to publicly be on probation. Think about it: He was scared. He was finished. What else could the elders have told this much-cherished and much-honored youth but to "break with her completely." ???

4a. We see in his blog post of May 18 - 2 1/2 weeks before his murder - that he is longing for a wife, longing to be a good Mormon.

5. Was Travis SO weak that on June 4, given all of the above, he would indulge in lying around, using KY, posing for Calvin Klein like sultry shower pics, and taking graphic pics of a woman who had cost him Lisa, Mimi, and his standing in the church???? Think about it. Travis was done. Jodi knew this. Ergo, she had murder in her heart, and on her mind. He would sense this.

6. I believe she was never invited in and ambushed him. As per my other posts, I believe the shower pics and the sex pics were from a much earlier date.

As for number 5, YES!

You don't think one LAST romp before abstaining is not appealing? One last time to act out every sexual desire with the person that's been giving you the sex of your dreams isn't appealing?

I think it's very appealing and probably part of the reason he might not have hinted to his roommates that she was upstairs, hiding her once again, which she expressed in a LONG email that she can't stand.

 

[wasnt_me]

Thanks. I can see how that diagram could fit, but it puzzles me why there is no blood staining from below the upper chest area. I would think the would have had lots of blood down his torso. If he was on his back, I would expect the same too. Why is that one area clear. I wonder if something was lying on the carpet keeping blood off of it.

excellent point, and it would have to be something that didn't leave an impression on him or the carpet.

 

[molly333]

You did a good enough job to join the defense team. >lol

I don't think the jury is going to buy it though. Why would you jump up and kill someone over a camera that wasn't even broken?

And they did a horrible job at trying to convince anyone of the previous 'attacks' by Travis. I don't think anyone believe her about that. Especially the way she suddenly threw in that last one, the choking incident. Never mentioned before, but suddenly throws it out there as if it was true.

I think her latest attempt to throw in new info, when she tried to put the knife in TA's hand BACKFIRED big time. Even she knew that was a hamhanded attempt to add a new layer of BS.

Thanks, I think lol.

When did she try to put the knife in TA's hand? I missed that one.

 

[wasnt_me]

Possibly, but I am still not sure of it, given the ennumerated reasons in my post. Possibly, but i has me doubts.......I has me doubts.... Recall, he had broken with her publicly. He was way beyond exsasperated.

How did he break with her publicly? I thought her issue was that he was keeping her a secret?

 

[Captain86]

I don't buy it right away. He would have just peed in the shower. :twocents:

Some people do, some don't.

 

[wasnt_me]

You can only use what is proven in court. Did he prove she is a narcissist? Most people, outside of professionals, don't even know what a narcissist is, much less try to diagnose someone they have never met.

That's neither here nor there. I just am mentioning it to show you how you are not thinking like a jury. Because a jury member might think to themselves she is a narcissist, if they happen to know what that is, but unless that is proven in court, it won't enter into the mix.

I am talking about his case, not about what you think. The problem is there is the evidence in court, and then there's what the rest of us know about, and all the chatter back and forth, which is totally different from what is going on in court.

This is why everyone was blindsided by the Casey Anthony verdict.

IMO

Okay, I'm telling you what I think because you are telling me what you think. You think he's proved something I don't think he's proved. It's your opinion what he proved or didn't prove, and it's my right to have a different opinion.

You cannot say that I am not thinking like a juror just because I am not thinking like you. I can be called for jury and selected for jury any day, and if I was, I would bring my brain and thus my thinking into that seat.

As for casey Anthony, everyone was not blindsided by it because some thought she was innocent.

It's very presumptuous to think "most people" don't know the definition of narcissistic. JM, imo, is clearly setting her up for it, whether the word is used or not. Has anyone outright called Travis a paedophile? Because that's what the DT is trying to say he is or was headed toward. In fact, I've seen sites where comments outright call him that. As for court, I don't remember if anyone has said outright that he is one or not, but we've been talking about the implications from what's been shown in court.

If you're a therapist with better credentials than Sam, then maybe we can talk in an off topic thread about my inappropriate thinking.

 

[Captain86]

BBM
Only the one I did. LOL

http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/g...=3&o=11&_suid=1364075906921047590710712553596

You think hewas on his back, correct?

 

[wilsodh]

I'm really struggling with this photo. What exactly are we looking at? I've looked at it until my eyes are bleary. I can't line up the blood streaks with the preceding photo, and I can't figure out how the body is oriented.

Can anyone help?

Dave

 

[katydid23]

Thanks, I think lol.

When did she try to put the knife in TA's hand? I missed that one.

I cannot remember which day it was, but Juan was going at her, and was asking her about the killing. And he was trying to work out that 62 second timeline, and wanted to know where the knife was when she grabbed it.

And she said i don't remember a couple of times, and then she slipped in that it was in Travis's hand at some point. And it shocked Juan for a second--he was almost caught off guard. LOL

But he would not let her get away with it so he ridiculed her and said ' OOhhh , so NNOWWW Travis had the knife...you never told us that before, did you.."

She said with a smirk " Nobody ever asked." :what: :what:

I think even Jodi knew that was too obvious of a LIE, even for her. So she immediately backed off of it. It is worth watching again but I don't remember which day of cross it was.

 

[geevee]

You think hewas on his back, correct?

Yes, that's how I listed the wounds, with him face up. But I can equally see him lying face down as well, I probably should have done both. lol

 

[geevee]

I'm really struggling with this photo. What exactly are we looking at? I've looked at it until my eyes are bleary. I can't line up the blood streaks with the preceding photo, and I can't figure out how the body is oriented.

Can anyone help?

Dave

I couldn't either, and once I realized that the size of it was not as much larger than the baseboard below it than seems it should be, I starting looking at it as if it holds something smaller, like the bloody items she's taking with her to the washer, and then its size makes more sense. It simply doesn't seem big enough for a body to be in it.

On the upper left you can see what looks like buttons, and the duvet cover has white buttons on it, which is why I think this is the duvet cover and not the sheet, but both were in the dryer so it doesn't matter much which it is really. Unless it's something else totally and I can't see it yet. :blushing: