Jodi Arias; the sequence of events

[irishnate]

This was taken on March 14th from an HLN article concerning the knife being the smoking gun. I found this to be very interesting:

Did Alexander suffer?

The knife is also important to the prosecution's case for cruelty. If the jury convicts Arias of first-degree murder then Martinez will have to prove Arias killed Alexander in a cruel manner to put Arias on death row. Arizona law defines cruel manner as when the victim suffers physical pain or mental anguish and the defendant knew or should have known that the victim would suffer.

The order of Alexander's wounds is critical to the prosecution’s case for cruelty. Martinez is expected to argue that the knife wounds happened before Alexander died, and the gunshot was the last wound inflicted upon him. If the knife wounds happened first Alexander likely suffered a great deal before dying.

Arias testified she shot Alexander first and doesn't remember what happened after the gun fired. However, she does acknowledge she must have used a knife during the attack.


(me) I agree that JM is NOT done and has just touched the "tip" of knife questioning

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

yea thats what i thought, but at least they did get the one ex girlfriends testimony who said Travis told her "someone" had slashed his tires and another girls tires so hopefully the jury will put that together with the fact that it was Jodi

Oh yeah? I didn't hear that. Which witness said it?

 

[Mountaindreamer]

Oh yeah? I didn't hear that. Which witness said it?

i saw a clip yesterday on HLN and it was the girl with the black curly hair and i think glasses and the clip they showed was her saying that Travis had told her that someone had slashed his tires and the tires of a girl he was seeing at the time. so i am hoping 2+2 equals 4 with the jury

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

OK, that's Marie. I want to see who she was responding to. Maybe it was a juror question.

 

[LambChop]

At the point TA was at his sink he was no longer a danger to Jodi. With that much blood splatter and a stab wound to his chest there was no way he would have been able to chase her down the hall. At some point he turned his back on her, 9 more wounds to the back. She can say what she wants fog, no fog. She had a choice and your instinct which would have been active at that time would be flight because he could no longer fight. jmo

 

[Mountaindreamer]

OK, that's Marie. I want to see who she was responding to. Maybe it was a juror question.

no i think she was being questioned by one of the attorneys

 

[Mountaindreamer]

I think it was good that Jodi testified because otherwise she would have sat there looking like a scared mouse when in fact she was not able to contain herself when she testified to show her true colors with Martinez

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

OK, I've listened to it. Both attorneys asked her about it and she actually gave a lot of info on stalking, but that she only knew what Travis told her. I guess the issue for JM was he didn't want to ask Lisa about it (the woman involved in the tire slashing).

 

[Mountaindreamer]

OK, I've listened to it. Both attorneys asked her about it and she actually gave a lot of info on stalking, but that she only knew what Travis told her. I guess the issue for JM was he didn't want to ask Lisa about it (the woman involved in the tire slashing).

yes i am hoping that the fact that it came out says like a neon sign that it was Jodi

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Yes, and I listened to some of Lisa's testimony too and she talked about how Jodi was always calling and texting Travis while they were on a date, "it's almost as if she knew we were together at the time." And a juror asked if she ever called Jodi a stalker (yes).

Been so long since that testimony.

 

[danzn16]

Unless you believe, as I do, that the GSW only grazed thru the skull, missed the brain and caused damage to the vessels in the sinus cavity which bled ALOT. He still would have been disoriented from the shock to the skull and swelling would quickly ensue. I think he got out of the shower and made it to the sink to see the damage. Why would he go to the sink to inspect a chest wound? He wouldn't need a mirror for that.. He would have been trying to get out of the house instead, no stop at the mirror. JMO.

Well 1st of all it is not possible for a bullet to "graze" through the skull. The skull is a thick bone and anything causing it's break and entry into the cranial cavity is a serious, serious medical condition. Grazing is the bullet going through superficial tissue only. A head injury including the cranial cavity is not a superficial injury.

Also even if it did not hit the brain it would have torn dura (the sac that encloses the brain) and there are major venous supply on the outside of this dura that would have been ruptured. This would result in major bleeding even if the brain was not penetrated as the ME said it was. And if only vessels in the sinus cavity were ruptured there would be extensive bleeding the cranial cavity still. One of those vessels in the sinus cavity is the internal carotid artery... yep, your carotids. That would be lifethreatening in itself.

And simply because someone bled on a sink and mirror doesn't mean they were looking at themselves. He could have falling and caught himself on the sink or any number of speculations. People getting stabbed 29 times or shot in the head won't take the time to go look at themselves in the mirror when the stabber/shooter is still going at it.

 

[molly333]

I can argue both ways for which came first, and I think I have. One of the things that bothers me is that Detective Flores (who most of us seem to really like) originally said that the ME told him that the shot came first. Then the ME (who I'm not real crazy about, reminds me of some of the cocky Docs I've worked with), denies ever telling him that or even having a conversation with him, selective memory me thinks. Flores has to take the fall saying I must have misunderstood so as not to dispute the ME's testimony.

I DO understand medical terminology and I still hold fast that the autopsy report does not say what Horn testified to. Furthermore, I HAVE seen gunshot wounds to the head where the patient literally walks in the door of the ER, especially with a small caliber. (I worked ER in South Miami). We even had one guy we didn't know was shot until the x-ray. He was talking away with a bullet lodged mid forehead. Whichever came first, she still deserves 1st degree.

The other thing I thought I read or heard, and can't find now, is that the stab to the L chest was in an upward direction. I only took note of this because women generally stab in a downward direction (think shower scene in Psycho) and men usually stab in an upward direction. Downward gives women more force. I always joked if I was going to stab someone I'd have to remember to stab "upward". None if this means anything, just thought it was interesting.

Thank you for that information. That is very interesting. Funny the ME doesn't seem to know that one can function with a small caliber bullet wound to the head.

I thought the same thing about Det Flores. It is unlikely he misheard Dr. Horn. But he ended up taking the hit for it like a good trooper. The State's first position was gunshot first.

There were only two stab wounds that were fatal. The rest were superficial wounds. I find it interesting what you say about the upward thrust wound--about how that would not be a wound of choice for a woman. I wonder, did someone tell her to do it that way? Sometimes I wonder if she had a male accomplice. That was one of the two fatal wounds and was very deep. Some of the wounds, like those on the back, were just slices, not stab wounds. But, the two fatal wounds were different.

When she 'gripped the knife' on the stand, she held it in a downward direction I think.

I'm thinking that JM just might return to gunshot first for his closing argument. I would hope he wouldn't want to hang up the Jury with this debate. It would really turn her testimony on its head if he agreed with her--yes, gunshot first, but you brought the gun.

If you have any other insights to share, I hope you will.


IMO

 

[Schnorkies]

Hello All...my 1st time here....I have been watching this trial from the beginning and I am so glad to have found a place where I can talk about it!
So here's what I think...!!

I believe that she stabbed him 1st based on the med. examiner's testimony. There was very little blood from the head wound...because he was already bled out!

When I see that portrait shot of Travis with those eyes, I wonder if he was looking at her with the knife...in fear and disbelief. (I think it would be interesting if someone would blow that pic up and see the reflection).

I think that she stabbed in the chest and continued stabbing him as he was trying to get out of the shower and bleeding out into the sink and continued stabbing as he tried to get away from her. At some point he was trying to grab the knife.

This whole defense that JA thinks that she has going - is only her 3rd scenario of lies that she thinks we will believe. No closet, no body slam, unless he was able to knock her down to keep her from stabbing him some more. (Don't really think so tho')
She slit his throat at the end of the hallway where most of the blood was....and then she shot him...as a parting shot (no pun intended!).

The evilness of this woman. Now he is a pervert and a pedophile?? How many MORE ways can she kill him??? In watching her during the trial, I am struck with how much she seems to be enjoying this. She LOVED talking about the "gizz" on her face and all of her sex-capades, etc. She loves the spot light. SHE REMEMBERS EVERYTHING and loves talking about it! She is a demon.

But as Juan pointed out so well....her scenario is IMPOSSIBLE in 61 seconds! Good luck with that Jodi!

Watching her mother makes me crazy...she is evil too.

Thanks for letting me rant...I feel better already!

God Bless Travis and his family.

 

[Schnorkies]

Who is the chick laying on the floor next to the boot?? What do you think that picture is about??

 

[katydid23]

I can argue both ways for which came first, and I think I have. One of the things that bothers me is that Detective Flores (who most of us seem to really like) originally said that the ME told him that the shot came first. Then the ME (who I'm not real crazy about, reminds me of some of the cocky Docs I've worked with), denies ever telling him that or even having a conversation with him, selective memory me thinks. Flores has to take the fall saying I must have misunderstood so as not to dispute the ME's testimony.

I DO understand medical terminology and I still hold fast that the autopsy report does not say what Horn testified to. Furthermore, I HAVE seen gunshot wounds to the head where the patient literally walks in the door of the ER, especially with a small caliber. (I worked ER in South Miami). We even had one guy we didn't know was shot until the x-ray. He was talking away with a bullet lodged mid forehead. Whichever came first, she still deserves 1st degree.

The other thing I thought I read or heard, and can't find now, is that the stab to the L chest was in an upward direction. I only took note of this because women generally stab in a downward direction (think shower scene in Psycho) and men usually stab in an upward direction. Downward gives women more force. I always joked if I was going to stab someone I'd have to remember to stab "upward". None if this means anything, just thought it was interesting.

BBM

My son is an EMT, and he has not seen it himself, but has heard many stories about calls where the victim has been shot in the head and they are talking and conscious and even mobile for awhile.

 

[rose222]

Hello All...my 1st time here....I have been watching this trial from the beginning and I am so glad to have found a place where I can talk about it!
So here's what I think...!!

I believe that she stabbed him 1st based on the med. examiner's testimony. There was very little blood from the head wound...because he was already bled out!

When I see that portrait shot of Travis with those eyes, I wonder if he was looking at her with the knife...in fear and disbelief. (I think it would be interesting if someone would blow that pic up and see the reflection).

I think that she stabbed in the chest and continued stabbing him as he was trying to get out of the shower and bleeding out into the sink and continued stabbing as he tried to get away from her. At some point he was trying to grab the knife.

This whole defense that JA thinks that she has going - is only her 3rd scenario of lies that she thinks we will believe. No closet, no body slam, unless he was able to knock her down to keep her from stabbing him some more. (Don't really think so tho')
She slit his throat at the end of the hallway where most of the blood was....and then she shot him...as a parting shot (no pun intended!).

The evilness of this woman. Now he is a pervert and a pedophile?? How many MORE ways can she kill him??? In watching her during the trial, I am struck with how much she seems to be enjoying this. She LOVED talking about the "gizz" on her face and all of her sex-capades, etc. She loves the spot light. SHE REMEMBERS EVERYTHING and loves talking about it! She is a demon.

But as Juan pointed out so well....her scenario is IMPOSSIBLE in 61 seconds! Good luck with that Jodi!

Watching her mother makes me crazy...she is evil too.

Thanks for letting me rant...I feel better already!

God Bless Travis and his family.

Great post. I agree with your version of events. I think she pulled out her weapons at some point and ordered him to sit. No way he's going to sit in a shower with the water off unless she was armed. She taunts him after that. The last head shot of him speaks volumes. She disgusts me so much.

 

[molly333]

I watched again where she 'gripped the knife' on the stand.

She uses her right hand! Her thumb is at the top, so that means the knife is pointing downwards. That means she would have had to turn the knife in her hand before she could do the upward thrust into the chest to reach the vena cava.

But, she is left handed. What was in her left hand? Why would the knife be in her right hand?

So let's say for the sake of argument, she has the camera in her right hand [it's a right handed camera]. And, she is taking pictures while she holds the gun on him with her left hand. She shoots him with the gun. He is still talking, moving. She snaps the last picture of him sitting in the shower. She shoots again. The gun jams. She drops the camera. It snaps another picture, taking the picture of the ceiling. She reaches for the knife with her right hand. Now she has the knife in her right hand and the useless toy gun in her left, as he moves toward her out of the shower, on his way to the sink to see what happened to his head. She jabs at him with the knife. He blocks her with his hands.

She drops the gun and moves the knife to her left hand, rotating it so it points upward. That blow to the vena cava came from below and upwards. He's standing now and she is now prepared to do that upward thrust into the chest from below the ribcage for 3.5 inches.

But, that's not a natural thing to do. Somebody, or something she read, told her to stab him that way. Turning the knife in her hand so that it points upward, entering below the ribcage, --that's a knifewound done by someone who has some knowledge.

Does she have any friends who learned hand to hand combat in the military?

JMO

 

[Mountaindreamer]

Yes, and I listened to some of Lisa's testimony too and she talked about how Jodi was always calling and texting Travis while they were on a date, "it's almost as if she knew we were together at the time." And a juror asked if she ever called Jodi a stalker (yes).

Been so long since that testimony.

Right...that is my hope that they will not forget what was said because of the 18 days of seeing Jodi on the stand. That clearly shows he was trying to move on and she was not

 

[Mountaindreamer]

Great post. I agree with your version of events. I think she pulled out her weapons at some point and ordered him to sit. No way he's going to sit in a shower with the water off unless she was armed. She taunts him after that. The last head shot of him speaks volumes. She disgusts me so much.

You know that picture of him sitting with the water on his face always looked strange to me like something was happening, he looked scared

 

[Mountaindreamer]

I will be interested to see what Martinez does with this expert witness. Last night they were saying that on his website which i havent gone to yet, it says, we can win any case. then when he went to do something for the powerpoint, they said he looked at Jodi and gave her a big smile and she smiled back. Also that he had to quit is private practice because of some questionable testimony so i hope Martinez has this in the bag