Jodi Arias; the sequence of events

[sacrablue]

The fact that Travis was making an escape is amazing. This was to end in the shower enclosure...bang and done but the plan falls appart. Travis ends up all the way down the hall with blood everywhere. JA makes hardly no attempt to clean up now except for herself. Why go to all the effort to put Travis' body back in shower enclosure? Her blood was on his body. If she wasn't cut I believe she would have left him in the hall.

 

[geevee]

I just can't see how his right eye would not have been damaged with the point of entry and the tragectory of the bullet. The bullet also traveled more towards the front of his facial skeleton than towards the back, meaning even less chance of hitting the brain. It entered above the right eyebrow and moved away from the brain and thru the sinus cavity, as opposed to towards or into the brain. A facial injury. Explains why the dura mater was intact.

I agree, I tend to think his vision in that eye was destroyed by the bullet injury, if you look at the overhead picture of him in the shower you can see his right eye is somewhat open and the eye looks bulged, if the shot had been last I wouldn't think the right eye itself would seem much different than the left, would it?

 

[geevee]

I really hated how she had to peek thru her Cousin It hair shield at every autopsy photo put up on the screen. It creeped me out. So many thoughts were going thru my head as to why she would want to see them. I know she remembers inflicting these wounds, I know she remebers it all. It was like she had to see her handiwork for another victorious thrill or satisfaction that she "won". (As she dabbed her nose with tissue) It was disturbing and i'm sure the jurors must have thought the same.

I wonder if they noticed that all of the intentional pictures she took, they were of all the body parts she would soon stab or shoot.

I also wonder how hard she tried to get DT to give her a set of all the pictures.

 

[sacrablue]

I think I remember the ME saying that the congealed blood the shell was lying on was from a chest wound or he was asked that question. Would that blood clot faster than say blood coming from your facial area?

I don't think so. That little shell casing could have easily been moved around on the floor during the struggle.

 

[sacrablue]

I wonder if they noticed that all of the intentional pictures she took, they were of all the body parts she would soon stab or shoot.

I also wonder how hard she tried to get DT to give her a set of all the pictures.

Interesting thought...this gets me back to my ritual 'blueprint' murder thinking.

 

[molly333]

"We believe that Travis had been shot first. And, that shot was in the face."

---Esteban Flores, Lead Detective, 48 Hours, "In Her own Words"

 

[geevee]

This board is moving so fast it is hard to keep up. :innocent: Someone (I think it was RealityMan) posted a while back about the position of the first bleeding photo vis-a-vis the huge blood stain on the carpet. I've puzzled about this also.

I think most of us would agree that that photo was probably taken after Travis' throat was slit. Two scenarios come to mind.

Scenario 1. Jodi had just delivered the coup de grace in the hallway. Travis was in his final death throes and was still alive for the photo. His right arm is up (fading defensive posture), blood from cut vessels immediately flows down his shoulder. Head is elevated instinctively to minimize exposure of neck to assailant. In final move to continue 'fleeing', he uses his feet to slide backward toward the bedroom onto the carpet before succumbing.

Scenario 2. Jodi delivered the coup de grace on the carpet. Travis succumbs. Jodi makes an initial attempt to move Travis toward the shower by pushing him off the carpet. The position of Travis' left foot might be consistent with having been pushed toward the shower. Perhaps she is propping his head up with her leg...

I'm struggling with both of these scenarios. In scenario 1, I'm not sure it would be possible to lift one's head with such a deep knife wound. The head is pretty heavy and intact frontal muscles are required. For scenario 2, it seems more reasonable that Jodi would have been pulling Travis to the shower by his feet to get him off the carpet. Or perhaps she pulled him by his right foot, and the left foot lagged as depicted in the photo.

Other thoughts?

Dave

In the neck bleeding photo I think she is rolling him over onto the duvet cover, if you look at the line on the right and follow it, you can make out at least one button to the left (I think the enchancement makes them hard to see but one is right under the 'foot' pool of blood coming from his neck as he rolls), and look at the angle from head to arm to shoulder, she's rolling him over, I think.

I marked on the carpet stain where I think his injuries were at that point from the blood pattern:

http://s1287.photobucket.com/user/g...rt=3&o=0&_suid=136370070545305494978713444846

I think she pulled his arms to the left to get his head going down the hallway first and drug him a little while (dragging injuries on his heels) and then got the duvet cover to pull him the rest of the way and help to get him in the shower. He could have gotten those heel injuries while she was pulling him over the metal shower stall edge but I think she pulled him down the hallway at least far enough that he was oriented in the head first direction and off the carpet completely.

 

[LambChop]

I don't think so. That little shell casing could have easily been moved around on the floor during the struggle.

I wasn't asking that. I was asking about the blood, not the shell.

 

[Captain86]

Let's consider the significance of the 5:31:14 (bathroom ceiling) photo from the standpoint of the gun first theory and then from the standpoint of the knife first theory.

1. Gun first theory

Sometime in the 44 seconds between the 5:30:30 (sitting) photo and the 5:31:14 (bathroom ceiling) photo, JA shoots TA in the head. However, TA is not dead. In fact, although badly hurt and disoriented, TA starts moving out of the shower in an attempt to escape. JA tries to fire another bullet, but the gun jams. JA panics and accidentally snaps this shot as she backs away from the shower door. She then runs down the hallway to grab a knife. With JA gone, TA staggers toward the sink and somehow lifts himself into a standing position, expirating blood from his sinuses onto the mirror. JA returns with the knife (perhaps reentering the bathroom from the closet door) and stabs and slashes at TA. TA crawls to the end of the hallway before JA finally slashes his throat.

2. Knife first theory.

JA continues to hold the camera in her right hand as she slashes and stabs at TA from the moment of the initial blow in the shower until TA reaches the end of the hallway. JA never leaves the bathroom, and is standing between TA and the sink/mirror, yet somehow TA manages to stagger all the way to the mirror, stand up, expirate on the mirror, and then crawl down the hallway. JA stabs and slashes at TA for all of the 1 minute and 46 seconds before JA finally cuts his throat. Then, after dragging TA's dead body all of the way back into the bathroom, JA decides, inexplicably, to shoot TA in the head.

Question for the knife first theorists: How does TA get to a standing position facing the sink/mirror if JA never leaves the room and stands between TA and the mirror, all the while cutting and slashing at him?

I agree with you that using the gun would have been the most logical choice for Jodi, but we are talking about a woman who does a multitude of illogical things.

There is not a whole lot of physical evidence that the attack started in the shower, or at least no evidence of where the where the attack started has been presented at this point. The photos help establish the length of the attack, but it does not definitively tell us much about the attack itself. The attack starting in the shower is only a theory. While I agree that this would have placed her between him and the sink, it is illogical to think that he would have stumbled over to the sink to check himself out in the mirror. He would have had no doubt that she just shot him, by your theory. He would have seen her pointing the gun at him and would seen/heard the gunshot and felt the pain of being shot. Most likely, his instinct would have been to leave once she exited the bathroom. Why stop by the mirror and check the damage? Wouldn't getting away fromt he danger and getting help be more important? If he was too disoriented from being shot that he could not stand without aid of the sink, then how did he fight back when she was stabbing him? how did he manage to make it down the hallway?

She either shot him at the start, which the physical evidence does not support, or she shot him last after his death was assured. I don't think she stabbed him, switched to the gun to shoot him, then swithed back to the knife to cut his throat. If he had bled more inside the skull, then I would be more inclined to agree that he was shot first. Without any more evidence, or a confession, which came first is really a guess on all our parts, but it really doesn't matter which came first as it pertains to her guilt on the Murder I charge.

It is not inexplicable as to why she might have shot him after cutting his throat. The body will convulse and writhe some post mortem. This very well might have lead her to believe he was still alive. She could have also felt that he was taking too long to die from the throat slash.

 

[molly333]

Det. Flores: We believe that Travis had been shot first. And, that shot was in the face.


Voice over: But surprisingly, that wasn't what killed him.


Interviewer: What specifically killed Travis?

Det. Flores: The autopsy report says that he had one single stab wound, direct center to his chest, which hit his heart. And, then he had a cut across his throat, as well.


---48 Hours, In Her Own Words

 

[geevee]

"We believe that Travis had been shot first. And, that shot was in the face."

---Esteban Flores, Lead Detective, 48 Hours, "In Her own Words"

LOL I watched that last night because I hadn't seen it before and wanted to hear more of the ninja story (since that's when I think she tells most of the truth about what she did to Travis). Her defiance is one of the most chilling things about this whole case.

Incidentally, by the time she arrived at Travis' home I think she hated him with utter passion, for all the slights and him intending to expose all the things she'd done, she didn't go there to talk him into taking her to Cancun, she went with murder in her mind and she carried it out, and fairly closely to what she planned (even if it didn't go 'just like on TV').

 

[LambChop]

"We believe that Travis had been shot first. And, that shot was in the face."

---Esteban Flores, Lead Detective, 48 Hours, "In Her own Words"

Not sure why that is significant because we all thought she shot him first because of what she said and frankly without forensic evidence and testimony from the ME what Jodi said sounds reasonable. Jodi sounding reasonable is suspect as we are finding out with all the lies she has told from day one. So, what is left. The ME's testimony because this is all that will be required of the jury to consider unless defense can prove otherwise.

Along with all the witness statements so far, this is what the jury will get. jmo

 

[LambChop]

Did anyone watch the HLN reenactment last night? I have not heard how it came out.

 

[geevee]

I wasn't asking that. I was asking about the blood, not the shell.

That blood pool is right over a grount line, if the casing had been lying on the floor and blood flowed to that spot by way of grount line and welled up under the casing it makes as much sense as if the casing landed on the blood. Maybe?

 

[molly333]

LOL I watched that last night because I hadn't seen it before and wanted to hear more of the ninja story (since that's when I think she tells most of the truth about what she did to Travis). Her defiance is one of the most chilling things about this whole case.

Incidentally, by the time she arrived at Travis' home I think she hated him with utter passion, for all the slights and him intending to expose all the things she'd done, she didn't go there to talk him into taking her to Cancun, she went with murder in her mind and she carried it out, and fairly closely to what she planned (even if it didn't go 'just like on TV').

What Det. Flores says in that 48 hours show is completely consistent with the autopsy report. I'm shocked and surprised!

Totally agree about what she intended.

IMO

 

[LambChop]

I think I remember the ME saying that the congealed blood the shell was lying on was from a chest wound or he was asked that question. Would that blood clot faster than say blood coming from your facial area?

I'm not interested in the shell. What I want to know is if blood from the chest, heart area would clot faster to form a solid base than say blood from the nose???? I'm not interested in the shell at all or how it got there. I was interested in where the blood came from if it's possible to tell. It seems like a clot of blood on the floor.

 

[LambChop]

What Det. Flores says in that 48 hours show is completely consistent with the autopsy report. I'm shocked and surprised!

Totally agree about what she intended.

IMO

Det. Flores was there taking notes. Why wouldn't it be consistent?????

 

[molly333]

Did anyone watch the HLN reenactment last night? I have not heard how it came out.

I described it in two posts a few pages back. It was great.

 

[sacrablue]

I described it in two posts a few pages back. It was great.

That Baez is a clever guy. He said JA when being chased from BR went to closet option because she didn't want to be pushed down stairs...good thinking.The closet shelving was a none factor, the biggest trip not even reckoned with..

 

[LambChop]

I described it in two posts a few pages back. It was great.

Thanks, I will check it out. Posts on the main thread however are not coming back as "great" because they are not following the evidence.