Jodi Arias; the sequence of events

[molly333]

Yet the gunshot was on the right side of his head, but the blood is to the left. Scalp wounds do bleed a lot even if not deep. Anyone who's had their head injured could tell you that. They're a lot bloodier than you'd think from the wound size. The head is very vascular.

Ever seen pictures from an Ashura festival?

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...0&bih=542&sei=TJtKUcb9M-qc2QWfn4CABQ&tbm=isch

God help us.

 

[molly333]

I'll see if I can look up some.

I just really think would be remiss to think the size of a perp and a victim matter--even in a knife fight. Again, think stamina, agility, endurance, and not the "perceived" idea that bigger means stronger, more clever, cunning, quick, etc. It doesn't.

This isn't a serial killer, but it's a woman who was being attacked by a man. She stabbed him only once in the chest and killed him. Travis got stabbed 3 times in the chest.

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/crime/woman-stabbed-man-to-death-with-kitchen-knife-1.1156774

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/aug/13/nation/la-na-nn-woman-fiance-stabbing-wedding-day-20120813

This wife had a hatchet and was convicted of premeditated murder of husband:
Nancy Seaman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wasn't me, all three of those look to me like impulsive killings. Yes, Seaman got first degree but the Judge lowered it to second degree. He believed she was an abused woman. She used an axe, which is a more powerful weapon, and that might have affected the Jury. She killed him with it the day she bought it, which didn't help, either. She also cleaned the crime scene and tried to get rid of the body.

I think it's more likely for a knife to be used in impulsive killing. That's what I'm saying. But, we are talking about premeditated murder as the charge we believe she deserves, and I'm afraid the impulsive looking nature of it with knife first will preclude that.

IMO

 

[gamom]

I initially thought she shot him first before I saw this video. I think it happened just like this. The evidence fits it. I think she is actually telling the truth in this video. Her emotion sounds real. She is shocked about the amount of blood and the fact that he is screaming and still alive. I bet she still hears those screams. She shot him because he was still making noises and she thought he was still alive.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mXlwTZoMzQ

 

[sacrablue]

I initially thought she shot him first before I saw this video. I think it happened just like this. The evidence fits it. I think she is actually telling the truth in this video. Her emotion sounds real. She is shocked about the amount of blood and the fact that he is screaming and still alive. I bet she still hears those screams. She shot him because he was still making noises and she thought he was still alive.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mXlwTZoMzQ

The video looks good until I saw the 'speculated' word. Still making noises. I am trying to understand how a person who is dead with his throat cut makes noises. Somebody help me with this please?

 

[danzn16]

I believe the bullet passed through the brain and I believe that he was able to stand up and put up a feeble defense for a brief time. It is not impossible like the ME asserted. I've read case studies and other personal accounts of people being hit with worse headshots (that penetrated brain) and still maintaining consciousness and mobility.

Case studies are write ups of rare cases. It would be rare for TA to have survived a shot to the heads and more probable he was knocked unconscious immediately after the shot

 

[Captain86]

I agree with this. To me, the issue is not whether the bullet passed through the brain, but whether the ME's conclusion that TA could not have sustained the apparent defensive injuries to his hands after suffering the gunshot wound is an infallible conclusion. I don't think it is.

I also don't know that I agree with ME about how incapacitated TA would have been after the bullet passed through the brain, either. I have seen too many strange things in professional career to completely discount him defending himself even after the gunshot.

 

[LaneGirl]

I also don't know that I agree with ME about how incapacitated TA would have been after the bullet passed through the brain, either. I have seen too many strange things in professional career to completely discount him defending himself even after the gunshot.

And we are talking about him surviving only 62 seconds (less really), from sitting shower picture to dragging picture.

 

[Captain86]

Yes, even if someone is confused by the report, there is no reason to be confused after seeing his testimony.

Curious, Captai86, are you a medical professional?

Yes, I am. My degree is heavy on anatomy.

 

[Softail]

The video looks good until I saw the 'speculated' word. Still making noises. I am trying to understand how a person who is dead with his throat cut makes noises. Somebody help me with this please?

There can only be speculation. Nobody except Jodi and Travis really know the truth. :waitasec:

 

[scorpio24]

I'll see if I can look up some.

I just really think would be remiss to think the size of a perp and a victim matter--even in a knife fight. Again, think stamina, agility, endurance, and not the "perceived" idea that bigger means stronger, more clever, cunning, quick, etc. It doesn't.

This isn't a serial killer, but it's a woman who was being attacked by a man. She stabbed him only once in the chest and killed him. Travis got stabbed 3 times in the chest.

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/crime/woman-stabbed-man-to-death-with-kitchen-knife-1.1156774

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/aug/13/nation/la-na-nn-woman-fiance-stabbing-wedding-day-20120813

This wife had a hatchet and was convicted of premeditated murder of husband:
Nancy Seaman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Agree wholeheartedly with this post. Thank you!

 

[weather_lady]

The video looks good until I saw the 'speculated' word. Still making noises. I am trying to understand how a person who is dead with his throat cut makes noises. Somebody help me with this please?

According to the ME, it would have taken seconds for TA to lose consciousness, and "minutes" for him to die from the throat-cutting. In that time, although he couldn't speak, there would have been air escaping from his lungs. His body would have made sighing/gurgling sounds as JA moved him around and forced more air out, which may have fooled her into thinking that he was making those noises of his own volition.

Even after he was dead, his body might have continued to make soft gurgling, sucking or sloshing noises for awhile. This is a normal occurrence even for those who die a natural, peaceful death.

 

[geevee]

I'd have to go through and dig up some serial killer cases to prove that there have been serial killers who have taken on victims bigger than they are. But I don't think size matters. strength, stamina and endurance matter. I've seen some guys who "look fit" but don't have the traits I just named.

I started working at a CrossFit gym. They have women Jodi's shape in there, beating some of the men, so I can't say Jodi's a wilting flower.

I keep explaining that I think she disabled Travis with duct tape. Again, she uses the "rope" to explain why a knife would be upstairs. Why can't the knife be up there to cut the duct tape to bind him instead? I think she was clever to come up with the rope story to cover for the duct tape. We see no evidence of a rope, but evidence of duct tape.

I agree that the murder did not go as planned. She'd hoped to duct tape him, taunt him in the shower, and shoot him. But she messed up when she bent over him to cut the duct tape roll off his hands with the knife. Or he charged her, knocked the gun away and she had to get the knife that she'd brought up there to cut the duct tape with.

I realize that they have not discussed that duct tape in court, but it was there, and it would be an explanation as to how she could overpower Travis with few defensive wounds.

There are tons of messy, gruesome crime scenes. The sloppiness of it should not be indicative of whether it was planned, though. It'd be a mistake for a jury to assume a disorganized sociopath would have a neat clean crime scene. Look at where Jodi lived. Her grandparents house was totally disorganized.

I'm a girl, I use duct tape now and again, I have never used a knife or scissors to cut duct tape, you tear it off the roll, that stuff does not cut well because of the stickiness but tears perfectly fine. So I can't see her needing the knife for duct tape if she did think she could bind his hands. And IF she did bind his hands and was able to start stabbing him in the shower, how did he sustain the rest of the chest wounds with his arms bound in front of him? I would think he'd turn side to side to avoid the knife blows and have injuries on his shoulders and arms and maybe sides, but not primarily chest and back.

 

[LaneGirl]

Yes, I am. My degree is heavy on anatomy.

You can become a verified professional here on websleuthes if you so choose. I think you have to send some info to the mods. Then under your name it will appear verified xyz. You also may be bombarded with more questions.

 

[Captain86]

Wasn't me, all three of those look to me like impulsive killings. Yes, Seaman got first degree but the Judge lowered it to second degree. He believed she was an abused woman. She used an axe, which is a more powerful weapon, and that might have affected the Jury. She killed him with it the day she bought it, which didn't help, either. She also cleaned the crime scene and tried to get rid of the body.

I think it's more likely for a knife to be used in impulsive killing. That's what I'm saying. But, we are talking about premeditated murder as the charge we believe she deserves, and I'm afraid the impulsive looking nature of it with knife first will preclude that.

IMO

But it doesn't look that impulsive. Any weapon can be used impulsively to kill, or any weapon can be used in a premeditated fashion to murder. A knife hurts. It is personal. It makes a statement to the victim. So far, everything point to a premeditated trip to AZ. Everything points to premeditated steps being taken to hide her trip and presence in AZ. Circumstantial evidence points to her obtaining a weapon prior to this trip. The same type of weapon was used at some point during the murder of TA. After his death, everything she did and said was a calculated attempt to hide the fact that she was in his apartment at the time he was killed. None of this shows anything impulsive.

She claims she killed him in self-defense. What evidence has she presented to support this claim and counter what JM has presented showing planning and manipulation prior to, during, and after the trip. I think you are worried about nothing at this point. The weapon used does not make the murder more impulsive when everything else clearly shows premeditation and planning.

 

[geevee]

You're missing the second biggest piece of evidence for premed, almost just as damning as the 25 auto.

Her cell phone being turned off for 18 hours, turning off in SoCal and turning on again at the Nevada border, 8 miles away from Hoover Dam. Ensuring no cell phone activity near Mesa where the murder took place.

Also, Jodi never used a credit card in Arizona.

And she herself saved all of these receipts in a pink shoe box in her bedroom. Which also makes me wonder about the weapons, would she really throw them into Crater Lake or the Hoover Dam? If she made a bonfire with the WalMart gas can contents to burn her bloody clothes (would she wait till they dried or burn while wet? I'm thinking distance from crime scene) she wouldn't burn the gun with bullets in it, probably wouldn't throw the knife in the fire either, and throwing in water is just too chancy, a knife will float, could she be sure that light-weight gun would sink? No, I think she put them somewhere she would be able to find them again if she had to, near Travis' or near her home.

 

[sacrablue]

There can only be speculation. Nobody except Jodi and Travis really know the truth. :waitasec:

Exactly, so tell 'Napoloeon' to settle down with his speculation rants.

 

[sacrablue]

According to the ME, it would have taken seconds for TA to lose consciousness, and "minutes" for him to die from the throat-cutting. In that time, although he couldn't speak, there would have been air escaping from his lungs. His body would have made sighing/gurgling sounds as JA moved him around and forced more air out, which may have fooled her into thinking that he was making those noises of his own volition.

Even after he was dead, his body might have continued to make soft gurgling, sucking or sloshing noises for awhile. This is a normal occurrence even for those who die a natural, peaceful death.

Ok, like a massive stroke. Takes seconds to lose consciousness. So no more breathing and no more vocal activity. The brain and heart die from no oxygen. So that leaves with air in the lungs which probably escapes when win pipe is severed.
Were both Carotid arteries cut?

 

[geevee]

We do know where it enteedr the skull, and we know where it ended. We also know that it passed through the Ethmoid Bone at midline at the bottom of the Cranial Vault, so we can make a pretty accurate guess.

The trajectory from the first two points of data, the entry wound and the midline re-entry wound, indicates the bullet lodged in the back part of the jaw near the TMJ area, or where the Maxilla and Mandible meet. This is an area that can be palpated easily and something like a bullet being in this area would be easy to find through palpation. This path would lead to the brain being involved, just like he stated on the witness stand.

I believe the x ray shows it lodged in front of the second (from last) molar, it actually looks like it moved the molar back a bit).

 

[sacrablue]

But it doesn't look that impulsive. Any weapon can be used impulsively to kill, or any weapon can be used in a premeditated fashion to murder. A knife hurts. It is personal. It makes a statement to the victim. So far, everything point to a premeditated trip to AZ. Everything points to premeditated steps being taken to hide her trip and presence in AZ. Circumstantial evidence points to her obtaining a weapon prior to this trip. The same type of weapon was used at some point during the murder of TA. After his death, everything she did and said was a calculated attempt to hide the fact that she was in his apartment at the time he was killed. None of this shows anything impulsive.

She claims she killed him in self-defense. What evidence has she presented to support this claim and counter what JM has presented showing planning and manipulation prior to, during, and after the trip. I think you are worried about nothing at this point. The weapon used does not make the murder more impulsive when everything else clearly shows premeditation and planning.

So going with this theory, JA brought the gun to use as back up just in case she was not successful with using the knife as a murder weapon?

 

[LaneGirl]

I believe the x ray shows it lodged in front of the second (from last) molar, it actually looks like it moved the molar back a bit).

And this would for sure make it impossible (I know most things are possible) for him to yell "gonna f'ing kill you *****"? Assuming (I know D) the shot came first as JA states could he talk with a bullet in his jaw/cheek?