Jodi Arias; the sequence of events

[SMK]

I'm a female, and I agree. lol.

So this means the Mormons are just putting one over on us, with their vows of chastity until marriage.......:furious:

 

[manzana]

There is a way, you just can't fathom it. :wink:

What can I say? People routinely underestimate women's strength. Even in a scenario where the male victim was caught off guard, is in shock, naked and wet, moving across tiles, has been stabbed in the chest and is going up against someone who is likely not pausing between stab wounds, but who is slashing furiously. Even with all of that, people can't see how it's possible.

Another thing I consider- With two people in the bathroom, I don't see him getting down the hallway, not with all the wounds he had, and especially if he had a shot to the face already, like the "gun firsters" suggest.

So are you saying that the entire attack was in the bathroom and he never made it to standing at the sink?

For me, all the energy it took to make it to the sink and any possible defensive wounds do suggest he tried to put up a fight.

 

[SMK]

Erm, by "randoms off the street", do you mean American citizens doing their civic duty?

Wow. Just wow.

I hear you - have been hearing a lot of this talk the past few years about jurors being "unimportant people who can take off from work (in a way a CEO or power attorney or surgeon, etc. could not). It is disturbing and un-democratic.

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

So this means the Mormons are just putting one over on us, with their vows of chastity until marriage.......:furious:

lol Well, they wouldn't be the first ones!

No, really... it wouldn't be the first time that someone has given into temptation.

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

So are you saying that the entire attack was in the bathroom and he never made it to standing at the sink?

For me, all the energy it took to make it to the sink and any possible defensive wounds do suggest he tried to put up a fight.

I'm sorry. I meant to say "two attackers in the bathroom" not two people. He would have had to fight off two attackers, plus all of his wounds.

 

[SMK]

lol Well, they wouldn't be the first ones!

No, really... it wouldn't be the first time that someone has given into temptation.

Yes, but I always viewed Mormons as special - and if everyone takes for granted that TA would be trying to get sex from Mimi, then this would apply as well to others.....It just seems collectively, they are a sham.

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

Yes, but I always viewed Mormons as special - and if everyone takes for granted that TA would be trying to get sex from Mimi, then this would apply as well to others.....It just seems collectively, they are a sham.

That's not fair to say. That they would all be a sham, collectively. I think that it's difficult for people to resist natural urges, though. I mean, to me it doesn't matter either way because he's an adult. I just have been on the other end of them "We can just hang out as friends," coin and it's not what the ultimate goal has been. lol Never with a Mormon, though.

 

[teledude]

Yes, but I always viewed Mormons as special - and if everyone takes for granted that TA would be trying to get sex from Mimi, then this would apply as well to others.....It just seems collectively, they are a sham.

No, not a sham.

They have very high standards and they proudly advocate them.

But they are also human beings

with all the accompanying flaws and defects of people in any other religion.

Does not make the religion or the goals a sham.

People fall short of the glory of God all the time. Good people.

 

[SMK]

No, not a sham.

They have very high standards and they proudly advocate them.

But they are also human beings

with all the accompanying flaws and defects of people in any other religion.

Does not make the religion or the goals a sham.

People fall short of the glory of God all the time. Good people.

Okie, I get it. I just think if they are for the most part practicing the same pre-marital sex that most young secular people do now, they ought to say so....but not trying to judge them....

There has been much speculation about the sexually explosive nature of the couple’s relationship thanks to their raunchy text messages and nude photos found on his camera, but his friend and former roommate said that while Travis had a very fun side, he didn’t break the fundamental rules of his Mormon religion.


“The Mormon church has a very unique culture that is hard to understand to others, but he definitely was living within that culture,” Taylor explains. “I have no first hand account that he was having sex with others – a lot of things I hear, especially from Jodi, I take with a grain of salt.

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2...uble-life-as-the-defense-contend-says-friend/
ETA: I had taken seriously that Jodi sort of "ruined him" - this talk of "getting some from Mimi" sort of shocked me. In any event, TA did not deserve what befell him in any way. But it would appear that adhering strictly to Mormon doctrine would have in this case saved his life.

 

[manzana]

I'm sorry. I meant to say "two attackers in the bathroom" not two people. He would have had to fight off two attackers, plus all of his wounds.

I agree, and I think the other attacker probably looked like he had been in a fight.

To me, whatever energy he may have been able to muster would have been aimed at the attacker 150% and we know the attacker had to be within reach or otherwise stab wounds could not have been inflicted. Imagine the force of being able to put ones fist through the head of JA, from one side to the other or from front to back, that is the force I would have hit JA with

 

[SMK]

There is a way, you just can't fathom it. :wink:

What can I say? People routinely underestimate women's strength. Even in a scenario where the male victim was caught off guard, is in shock, naked and wet, moving across tiles, has been stabbed in the chest and is going up against someone who is likely not pausing between stab wounds, but who is slashing furiously. Even with all of that, people can't see how it's possible.

Another thing I consider- With two people in the bathroom, I don't see him getting down the hallway, not with all the wounds he had, and especially if he had a shot to the face already, like the "gun firsters" suggest.

Yes, true. I do wonder how she managed to escape without more injury (some knifers actually cut themselves terribly while attacking a victim) and how she managed not to trail blood into the rental car.... but yes, points well taken.

 

[geevee]

Or maybe she didn't allow him to use hot water. I wouldn't put anything past her. Look at the gesture he is making with his hands where he has them pressed to his chest. I saw that gesture when I was looking up the two finger salute he's giving in the naked picture on the bed.

I felt like he was giving a signal to anyone who would see those pictures.

IMO

I think that 'salute' is just his hand caught in the act of flipping the KY bottle to her in irritation.

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

Yes, true. I do wonder how she managed to escape without more injury (some knifers actually cut themselves terribly while attacking a victim) and how she managed not to trail blood into the rental car.... but yes, points well taken.

Well, we have no clue what kind of knife she used, right? None of the knives in the house fit. She did walk away relatively unscathed, though, and I think that Travis may have gone into flight mode, and didn't really try to fight back as much as he tried to stop the blows with his hands, maybe he tried to grab the knife from her, but if he wasn't actually trying to physically harm her, then that could be why she didn't have many marks on her body.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Erm, by "randoms off the street", do you mean American citizens doing their civic duty?

Wow. Just wow.

They are random in that there is no guarantee how sensible or objective they will be. A juror's decision need not be respected simply because they're doing their duty. Maybe some system of professional juries is needed. Or maybe a requirement of passing a test on applied critical thinking.

 

[SMK]

They are random in that there is no guarantee how sensible or objective they will be. A juror's decision need not be respected simply because they're doing their duty. Maybe some system of professional juries is needed. Or maybe a requirement of passing a test on applied critical thinking.

But this professional or qualified and select jury would go against our constitutional idea of the right to be tried by "a jury of your peers".

 

[geevee]

Travis was likely hit by a jacketed hollow-point bullet based on my understanding. Nothing about the bullet deformation and trajectory can rule it out. As a 25. auto, they are lower velocity and velocity is key to having it expand like a mushroom. This often does not happen with 25 caliber ammunition. Another point is that the bullet almost immediately struck bone which likely clogged the hollowed cavity, making it behave like a traditional FMJ. There is a study that supports this.

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/reloading/76612-study-bullets-dont-expand-if-striking-bone.html

I've found some information that could actually prove it. Based on my searches, it seems that Winchester only produces FMJ 25 auto ammunition with a weight of 50 grains. All winchester "expanding points" (hollow point) seem to be 45 grain. The bullet that struck Travis weighed 44 grains, consistent with 25 auto expanding points made by Winchester. Further, the ME testified to finding no evidence for bullet fragmentation in his skull and this would suggest that the weight of the bullet after impact should be very similar to the weight before impact.

I've tried comparing shell casings but it's inconclusive (picture too dark and shadowed). Perhaps someone else would like to "expand" on this?

You can probably get a good screen shot of the casing as JM is showing the picture to the forensic lady (Day 2?), I use Irfanview to resize, lighten, etc. pictures, you can even have it auto adjust the colors, reduce saturation, quite a few things for a free program. Anyways, maybe you can get a good look at the casing that way.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

No, not a sham.

They have very high standards and they proudly advocate them.

But they are also human beings

with all the accompanying flaws and defects of people in any other religion.

Does not make the religion or the goals a sham.

People fall short of the glory of God all the time. Good people.

Maybe the flaw is in the religion and not in the people.

 

[geevee]

I've always wondered how she managed that. I've tried to figure out how does she step out of all that blood in the hallway and leave no tracks. I tried to think how I would do it, and it's not easy. She has socks on in the last picture so she had to put a clean shoe on one foot, step over, put clean shoe on other foot before you put it down.

well, you get the picture lol. No bloody footprints anywhere on the rug in the bedroom.

Maybe someone carried her out of there? Or handed her the shoes? Little things like that bother me.

IMO

She tosses a towel onto the carpet and wipes her feet, puts on fresh socks or shoes and that towel is added to the stuff to be washed.

 

[SMK]

Maybe the flaw is in the religion and not in the people.

I think that is my point: If you can't adhere to your own precepts, then maybe it is time to drop the mask and re-think your precepts, instead of holding up a superior ideal which separates you from the general public.

 

[geevee]

Also recall that Flores told Jodi that his search of her mother's residence turned up ammunition for a 25 auto and that this *matched* the bullet that struck Travis in the head. Jodi just stares at him when he says this.

Does anyone know if Jodi visited her mother sometime between My 28th and June 3rd?

There has to be a reason for why defense council didn't bring this possible "discrepancy" up during the cross of the ballistics expert.

Where does her Mom live?