Jodi Arias; the sequence of events

[Smelly Squirrel]

And then maybe we can use that same type of screening method before we allow people to vote. Or have children. Or own property. :facepalm:

Now you're talking. :rocker:

 

[Sleuth5]

What you are saying is perfectly logical and reasonable.

However: :what:

There is still a nagging feeling that BW000 is right. And where there is a nagging feeling, there is often an uncoscious LOGIC at play..... and BW0000 and Sleuth 5, listen to this as well if you like.:seeya:

Something about BW0000 saying that the sex pics and the shower pics may not be from June 4 rings all too true. But it also rings true that JA could not have had the sheer genius to pull it off as I post above. Even her devious mind would not be quite so complicated.

And yet we all of us know that law enforcement investigators will draw conclusions and make the evidence fit. I would not think it too immoral if - KNOWING as they did that Arias was guilty as sin, and not wanting to see her walk - they jumped to the conclusion tha the pics were from that day ( he was, after all, found in the shower) and manipulated the date/time to that end.

JA is shocked as she knows they are from another day- yet she cannot deny the bloody print and hair.
EUREKA, THE THEORY STILL HOLDS!!!:great:

Hmmm. That makes sense.

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

The duvet cover was in the dryer along with the flat sheet, some pillow cases and I think a few articles of clothing (sweat pants and a t-shirt?), in the washer were the camera, a towel, several pairs of socks, the tie dyed t-shirt and maybe another article of clothing, I can't recall.

But in the first pictures of the washer you can see the camera easily, for a while I thought it got in there unintentionally with sheets but they were in the dryer so I do think she meant to leave the camera (as it did belong to TA) and just thought deleting and rinsing in bleach would be enough to wreck it and the stick (if she knew it had the stick in there, I don't know if that's obvious or not).

This may sound like a dumb question, but were the things in the dryer cleaned or just stuffed in there? lol. How do we know that they weren't washed earlier in the day? I am so lost.

 

[usnuzuloose]

Is there a receipt for the gun Jodi bought?

 

[geevee]

This may sound like a dumb question, but were the things in the dryer cleaned or just stuffed in there? lol. How do we know that they weren't washed earlier in the day? I am so lost.

Not dumb at all, I wondered it too. As far as I know they were washed (to remove blood and dna), the forensic lady removes each article from the bags they are in (Day 2, I think) so you can watch it on YouTube and see if they look cleaned to you (or if JM asks her, I don't recall). I do know Flores said she put the washer on the rinse cycle for the camera but no mention of the dryer contents, I was wondering if they had been dried or just put there after washing but I do think they were washed.

 

[gitana1]

No. She threw her own mother under the bus lol.

But, this works for her now because of her defense.

Later, she would give someone up to negotiate her sentence, I'm sure, if that were possible.

I really think she feels that she can get off right now. She thinks she is winning her case.

No. Like I said, it's always been a gut feel. I've never had any evidence for it.

IMO

It would not be possible for her to later negotiate her sentence by giving someone else up.

I find this thought process to be very naive, Mimi may have said he was gettin NONE, but Travis clearly thought he could for the lack of a better term, charm the pants off of her at some point during the vacation. I am a guy, I know how guys think.

So this means the Mormons are just putting one over on us, with their vows of chastity until marriage.......:furious:

Mormons can be different. Yes, many young people of any faith break their religious oaths, but it can be harder, within the Mormon community, to find someone to have sex with out of wedlock.

There is a reason Travis was a virgin at age 30 when he met jodi. There is a reason they can find no evidence he ever had sex with anyone else.

I highly doubt he truly believed Mimi Hall would be likely to have her pants charmed off her during the vacation.

This is how I think it went down: Then, after dragging poor Travis' body, whom you must know suffered dearly, she put him in the shower where she managed the final coup de grace, the shot to the forehead, just to make sure he was gone for good. And the bullet casing ended up somewhere on the bathroom floor where, eventually kicked by a roommate entering the bathroom to see where Travis was the night they found him, it ended up over the small dried pool of blood.

Snipped for space.

Travis' was faced away from the shower door and the gun shot wound was facing toward the wall, when he was found. He was not shot in that position.

The brain wound was minor??? Is that a professional medical opinion? It's only a possibility not a likelihood. If a bullet goes through the frontal lobe, it is possible to survive and to keep functioning, but it is not likely. Gunfirst depends on a low probability event.

Actually, even if he's sitting down she's not that much over him. Her outstretched arm would barely be above the gun entry site. It would not be the steeper angle of the final trajectory. It is possible for a bullet to change trajectories inside a body, but then that removes this argument altogether.

And if she's kneeling down then not at all.

Snipped for space.

Many people on here and experts on tv as well as the ME himself have provided evidence that such a gunshot wound as Travis sustained could be not only survivable, but also could allow him to be be a little bit functioning for a while after ward.

I think her ninja story during which Travis is shot, screams, then is on his knees, one hand on the floor, one hand holding his head, moaning and then confused, asks jodi to go to the neighbors for help, is possible, based on the evidence I have seen, with such a gunshot wound.

As to the trajectory, please take a tape measure, measure out two feet, and pretend to be shooitng someone sitting before you. See what the trajecotry would be. Also, two feet doesn't mean two feet horizonatally. It it just two feet away from the gun. jodi could have been standing, directly on top of him, holding the gun up, slightly, and bang. Why does her arm have to be "outstretched"?

And then maybe we can use that same type of screening method before we allow people to vote. Or have children. Or own property. :facepalm:

Jury duty is not a right like the right to vote, have children or hold property.

 

[SMK]

The Mormon blood oath and blood atonement are not in the Book of Mormon. There are many other Mormon scriptures besides that one text. (For example, jurors were wrong in asking about knowing the Law of Chastity from reading the Book of Mormon). Most of their strict rules and their unique rituals are not from the Book of Mormon. It's basically a bunch stories to teach moral lessons and to brand itself as in heritage with Christianity and Judaism.

The blood oath was a ritual borrowed from Masonry that was part of their temple ceremony where they swear to not reveal their secret rituals on pain of several bad repercussions, including cutting the throat from ear to ear (Travis has not revealed the rituals as far as we know). Blood atonement was about a person who had committed murder voluntarily choosing to have their own blood spilled to atone for the murder, since murder was a very bad sin. It did not require a throat cut. (Travis did not commit murder as far as we know.)

Modern LDS Mormons do not practice or adhere to either blood oath or atonement (some fundamentalists groups do).

Anyway, I don't buy at all that the throat cut had anything to do with Mormonism. Jodi killed him out of jealous rage, not because of religion. If a throat being cut from ear to ear must mean it had something to do with Mormonism, then OJ was a Mormon.

True enough - but the Wikipedia link is telling. Having edited for them, I know how strictly they adhere to editorial policy which reflects factual reality. I had thought JA might have slashed "from ear to ear" to point in the direction of a Mormon hit (she was supposed to be far away ).

 

[geevee]

Is there a receipt for the gun Jodi bought?

The 9mm? If there is it hasn't been entered into evidence that I've seen. I would expect that would come up in the penalty phase after conviction (along with the knives) to show intent to commit a similar crime with similar weapons as used in Travis' homicide.

 

[SMK]

Hmmm. That makes sense.

Let's hope so.

 

[SMK]

1. Oh, manipulation. jodi was good at that. "Oh come on, baby. I want to see how sexy you look in photos." "I feel gay doing this. I don't want to." "Come on, for me? You can delete the photos right afterward. Look, I'll take them on your camera instead of mine so you can be sure they will be deleted, ok?"


2. Me either. I think people may be projecting a bit? We know it's the last picture of Travis' face, alive. He is staring directly into the camera in the very place he would be murdered, seconds later. That is certainly haunting, disturbing.

But I see no fear, anxiety, horror, betrayal, anger or even sadness. The most I can possibly see is a bit of self conscious discomfort.

And for certain reasons, I am very, very, very good at reading people's signs for nervousness and fear. I can spot the hidden cues a mile away! So I'm positive on at least those emotions (the fear-based ones).

#1: I think he was too "through with her" at that point according to his May 26 email.

I don't think he had any sex with her on the last day of his life (see theory concocted by BW0000 and backed by me and sleuth5)


#2 Right. It was a "Calvin Klein" pic taken at another time prior. (see same theory).

None of the pics were from June 4 IMO.

 

[wilsodh]

I don't buy it right away. He would have just peed in the shower. :twocents:

I was going to suggest this, but thought better of it...

(Of course he may have been inhibited from doing so by his ex standing there taking photos!)

Dave

 

[teledude]

This is how I think it went down: Jodi, with Travis being in a vulnerable position as he was in the shower, took the knife (that she brought with her from home, which she probably had hidden in a bathroom drawer along with the gun she stole from Grandpa) while his back was turned and stabbed him either a couple times in the back or the chest first, as if she was going to kiss him from behind, then continued with the rest of the stab wounds that he had accrued while trying to fend her off with his hands and arms (as is proven in the autopsy report). Then, he stepped out of the shower, in shock and gasping he leaned over the sink trying to get his bearings, all the while coughing over the sink, and arterial blood was spraying all over the sink (as evidenced by CS photos) then, trying to make it down the hall, possibly to the bedroom to try and make it to the phone but not able to make it out of the bathroom, collapsed while sliding down the wall (as evidenced in the CS photo which shows a large smear on the wall, across from the closet) where she sliced his neck (large pooling of blood at area of hallway where tile ends and rug begins close to bathroom entrance door). Then, after dragging poor Travis' body, whom you must know suffered dearly, she put him in the shower where she managed the final coup de grace, the shot to the forehead, just to make sure he was gone for good. And the bullet casing ended up somewhere on the bathroom floor where, eventually kicked by a roommate entering the bathroom to see where Travis was the night they found him, it ended up over the small dried pool of blood.
Just my opinion of how it happened, but probably close to the real goings-on of Jodi's massacre. The death penalty requirements for the self-defense justification says that a person can only employ the same amount of force that it takes to remove the threat, the use of self-defense must match the threat. Jodi crossed that line and I do believe the jury gets it. I believe 1st degree pre-meditated murder will be the charge that gets handed down and that Jodi will get LWOP! Yay!
I just wish the Alexander family more strength to keep going and to be able to sit in the audience for the rest of this very tedious trial. I don't know how but other than for the grace of God have they been able to sit peacefully through that woman being on the stand for those long 18 days it took, with her dragging their brother's good name thru the mud!!! I just don't know if I could have done it! God bless them!
:jail: Jodi in jail, for life!! :banghead:

Pretty good analysis except the bullet track doesn't fit this scenario.

I have her shooting first and the rest about the same.

That darn bullet trajectory is what hangs me up.

And common sense: if you bring a gun you use it, and those cheap little guns jam easily.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Many people on here and experts on tv as well as the ME himself have provided evidence that such a gunshot wound as Travis sustained could be not only survivable, but also could allow him to be be a little bit functioning for a while after ward.

Yes, as I said, it's possible. But it's not likely.

As to the trajectory, please take a tape measure, measure out two feet, and pretend to be shooitng someone sitting before you. See what the trajecotry would be. Also, two feet doesn't mean two feet horizonatally. It it just two feet away from the gun. jodi could have been standing, directly on top of him, holding the gun up, slightly, and bang. Why does her arm have to be "outstretched"?

Outstretched would increase the downward angle (unless she purposely raised her elbow to point downward, which is doubtful). And I have done experiments personally. Using their body sizes, her arm would barely be above his forehead. The angle would be much less steep than the final trajectory.

 

[BW0000]

@BW0000 :
Probably the biggest problem with this theory is:

• it would imply that Arias manipulated the timestamps on the photos, and somehow wanted them to be found by police and knew they could be accessed despite her having torn out the card and thrown the whole mess in the washing machine.
  
• Also, it would imply that she wanted all to think she was on the scene at the murder, despite her original story of having not seen Travis since April, and despite her original not there at all/ then masked intruders stories.
  
• Additionally, why the rental car, the cell phone off, if she in fact wanted the police to know she was there 6/4/08 having sex?

Does this ruin our theory???lease:

All good points smk...

JA tells Flores she knows that timestamps can be altered. JM asks the witness who processed TA's computer,JA's HD and camera if timestamps can be altered. He says yes. JM asks Melendes if he sees the blue cap on the KY of her on the bed. He says no. JM asked JA if these pics were taken laying on the bed. She says yes.

I's assuming on rebuttal these sex pics will be addressed because of these questioned. Bad pictures but I still think they are both laying on different bedspreads within 50 sec.

Flores says TA deleted all pics of this activity and JA hasn't been to TA's house since April. I'm assuming JA brought this stick and put it into TA's camera but she also mentions she can't find 3 of her own sticks and says maybe she left them at TA"s house. I don't know what other pictures were on that memory stick.

To me, the 4 shower pictures I mentioned are themed. No soap, no hot water. Perhaps TA just likes to finish with cooler water I don't really know. To me, they are showing off his body. The others seem to be more sneaky if you will and they don't sit right with me. The ceiling picture would be part of this set. Why not focus and take better shots?

Again, If TA allowed any of this on June04, then she was really a spell caster and shame on him. But I just don't think that's the way it went down. Again, I could be simply wrong. The picture are what they are and the timestamps are what they are. Some of the sex pictures were deleted and copied over (unallocated) I would like to know what the next picture on the stick was that filled that space. Was it the sneaky shower pictures?. We'll have to wait and see.


Did she put the camera in by accident and forgot to take the stick? Was she assuming she would be destroying the camera and stick by washing it along with washing DNA, I don't know. She should have taken that stick and was her big mistake because there's only a few other things that put her there, palm print and a strand of hair.

I even was checking the length of TA's sideburns or facial blemishes trying to see if shower pics and after death pics were the same. The 2 shower floor pics look shorter but that picture could be deceiving and the only other one that you can compare is the back wound picture. The sideburns look a little shorter but when you rotate the picture it could be the same length. Hard to tell.

If all these shower pictures are what they are and the whole lot is what it is,
ten so be it. Let's see what JM has on rebuttal.

All good questions though but like I said, I'm putting faith in TA and trying to discredit the evidence. Let see what JM comes up with.

 

[wilsodh]

Me either. I think people may be projecting a bit? We know it's the last picture of Travis' face, alive. He is staring directly into the camera in the very place he would be murdered, seconds later. That is certainly haunting, disturbing.

But I see no fear, anxiety, horror, betrayal, anger or even sadness. The most I can possibly see is a bit of self conscious discomfort.

I've always thought his expression exhibits a bit of irritation that Jodi is still in the bathroom taking photos of him. I'm guessing at this point he would prefer that she just leave his house.

It might be the attitude that he had after their afternoon of sex. She may have picked up on it, fueling her anger and determination to carry through with her plan.

I know, I'm reading a lot into that expression...

Dave

 

[SMK]

All good points smk...

JA tells Flores she knows that timestamps can be altered. JM asks the witness who processed TA's computer,JA's HD and camera if timestamps can be altered. He says yes. JM asks Melendes if he sees the blue cap on the KY of her on the bed. He says no. JM asked JA if these pics were taken laying on the bed. She says yes.

I's assuming on rebuttal these sex pics will be addressed because of these questioned. Bad pictures but I still think they are both laying on different bedspreads within 50 sec.

Flores says TA deleted all pics of this activity and JA hasn't been to TA's house since April. I'm assuming JA brought this stick and put it into TA's camera but she also mentions she can't find 3 of her own sticks and says maybe she left them at TA"s house. I don't know what other pictures were on that memory stick.

To me, the 4 shower pictures I mentioned are themed. No soap, no hot water. Perhaps TA just likes to finish with cooler water I don't really know. To me, they are showing off his body. The others seem to be more sneaky if you will and they don't sit right with me. The ceiling picture would be part of this set. Why not focus and take better shots?

Again, If TA allowed any of this on June04, then she was really a spell caster and shame on him. But I just don't think that's the way it went down. Again, I could be simply wrong. The picture are what they are and the timestamps are what they are. Some of the sex pictures were deleted and copied over (unallocated) I would like to know what the next picture on the stick was that filled that space. Was it the sneaky shower pictures?. We'll have to wait and see.


Did she put the camera in by accident and forgot to take the stick? Was she assuming she would be destroying the camera and stick by washing it along with washing DNA, I don't know. She should have taken that stick and was her big mistake because there's only a few other things that put her there, palm print and a strand of hair.

I even was checking the length of TA's sideburns or facial blemishes trying to see if shower pics and after death pics were the same. The 2 shower floor pics look shorter but that picture could be deceiving and the only other one that you can compare is the back wound picture. The sideburns look a little shorter but when you rotate the picture it could be the same length. Hard to tell.

If all these shower pictures are what they are and the whole lot is what it is,
ten so be it. Let's see what JM has on rebuttal.

All good questions though but like I said, I'm putting faith in TA and trying to discredit the evidence. Let see what JM comes up with.

Taking time to read this now; thanks as always Please see my last 2 or 3 posts as I also came up with something....

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

True enough - but the Wikipedia link is telling. Having edited for them, I know how strictly they adhere to editorial policy which reflects factual reality. I had thought JA might have slashed "from ear to ear" to point in the direction of a Mormon hit (she was supposed to be far away ).

Well I suppose with Jodi's brain, that could be possible. She never suggested such a theory to Flores that we've seen, but then Flores didn't tell her the specific wounds. It would have been more telling for us if he did tell her he was cut like that to see her response.

 

[usnuzuloose]

The 9mm? If there is it hasn't been entered into evidence that I've seen. I would expect that would come up in the penalty phase after conviction (along with the knives) to show intent to commit a similar crime with similar weapons as used in Travis' homicide.

Thank You

 

[SMK]

All good points smk...

JA tells Flores she knows that timestamps can be altered. JM asks the witness who processed TA's computer,JA's HD and camera if timestamps can be altered. He says yes. JM asks Melendes if he sees the blue cap on the KY of her on the bed. He says no. JM asked JA if these pics were taken laying on the bed. She says yes.

I's assuming on rebuttal these sex pics will be addressed because of these questioned. Bad pictures but I still think they are both laying on different bedspreads within 50 sec.

Flores says TA deleted all pics of this activity and JA hasn't been to TA's house since April. I'm assuming JA brought this stick and put it into TA's camera but she also mentions she can't find 3 of her own sticks and says maybe she left them at TA"s house. I don't know what other pictures were on that memory stick.

To me, the 4 shower pictures I mentioned are themed. No soap, no hot water. Perhaps TA just likes to finish with cooler water I don't really know. To me, they are showing off his body. The others seem to be more sneaky if you will and they don't sit right with me. The ceiling picture would be part of this set. Why not focus and take better shots?

Again, If TA allowed any of this on June04, then she was really a spell caster and shame on him. But I just don't think that's the way it went down. (ME , NEITHER. SMK) Again, I could be simply wrong. The picture are what they are and the timestamps are what they are. Some of the sex pictures were deleted and copied over (unallocated) I would like to know what the next picture on the stick was that filled that space. Was it the sneaky shower pictures?. We'll have to wait and see.


Did she put the camera in by accident and forgot to take the stick? Was she assuming she would be destroying the camera and stick by washing it along with washing DNA, I don't know. She should have taken that stick and was her big mistake because there's only a few other things that put her there, palm print and a strand of hair.

I even was checking the length of TA's sideburns or facial blemishes trying to see if shower pics and after death pics were the same. The 2 shower floor pics look shorter but that picture could be deceiving and the only other one that you can compare is the back wound picture. The sideburns look a little shorter but when you rotate the picture it could be the same length. Hard to tell.

If all these shower pictures are what they are and the whole lot is what it is,
ten so be it. Let's see what JM has on rebuttal.

All good questions though but like I said, I'm putting faith in TA and trying to discredit the evidence. (So am I. I now believe that both the sex pics and the shower pics were not taken on that day.)Let see what JM comes up with.

We must admit that the pic of his body and her foot were from that day.

But this may be because HE had the camera.

Am I right? I am not always swift on the uptake. :blushing:

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

All good points smk...

JA tells Flores she knows that timestamps can be altered. JM asks the witness who processed TA's computer,JA's HD and camera if timestamps can be altered. He says yes.

JA offered this only as an excuse for why the photos would be there with that day's timestamp.

JM asks Melendes if he sees the blue cap on the KY of her on the bed. He says no. JM asked JA if these pics were taken laying on the bed. She says yes.

The blue cap is visible in both pics of Travis, but what is your point on this?

Do you mean it wasn't visible in Jodi's pics? That's easily explainable that it was just different parts of the bed.