Jodi Arias; the sequence of events

[Smelly Squirrel]

Yes, anyone know which witness testified about the blood in the sink?

 

[Whisperer]

My gut instincts thought the blood in the sink was coughed up. When I saw the splatter though, it looked like gunshot. So the splatter could have been from the blood spitting from his mouth: is that what they are saying?

 

[Midnight Meddler]

The blood spatter expert testified on day 5 - she's right after the arresting officer. Just search day 5 on YouTube.

 

[anagrammy]

Eh, all that is true about Mormonism, but I don't see it applying here necessarily. There's nothing about a gunshot to the head in what you said, for example. Now if say, she cut out his tongue too, then it should probably be considered.

Didn't she tell that other prisoner Nancy Grace interviewed that she had dismembered him and scattered the pieces of his body in the desert?

I think she planned a much more ritualized murder and dismemberment than what actually happened. Things we can't even imagine-- like taking a road trip and leaving parts of his body at places they visited.

All of this is speculation, a crazy stew of possibilities--brainstorming out of which can be assembled a more complete picture because so many points of view are represented.

When my son was delusional, he thought Jesus sent messages to him through the color of people's tennis shoes. If he had committed a murder, we would never be able to guess this as a factor.

I am not saying Jodi Arias has mental illness, my point is that she viewed herself as a victim and him as a perpetrator. She had given up EVERYTHING for him (Daryll, her house, her job, her family, her identity) plus she was willing to be a "friend with benefits" while he dated other women. Then she saw herself being anonymized, pushed aside as he "dreamed" of the fulfillment he was still searching for, the woman he hoped to meet and marry some day. He wouldn't even give her credit in his book even though he was crediting other contributors. He would screw her while he stood in the limelight, and her in a rented room off in the shadows. She'd show him for what he REALLY was--that's what the sex photos were for. She invaded his privacy, slashed his tires, spied on him and his girlfriends to show she still had power and he couldn't stop her. In her mind, they were laughing at her.

She would change that and show him who had the power. He would beg for mercy. . . instead, he said he would kill her.

I could be way off, of course. I could be dead wrong. I hope the truth comes out someway.

Is Ann Rule in the courtroom.....?

 

[neesaki]

My gut instincts thought the blood in the sink was coughed up. When I saw the splatter though, it looked like gunshot. So the splatter could have been from the blood spitting from his mouth: is that what they are saying?

Just a thought, I was wondering if there is any type of testing that can detect / differentiate saliva from blood. Maybe not, or they may already know if it was from gunshot or his mouth.

 

[danzn16]

Jodi Arias Trial discussion, #4 - Page 19 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Found this post. Day five is three hours long and don't have time to find it. Would like sink info but can't find it. Help?

 

[Midnight Meddler]

Here's the link to Blood Spatter expert, day 5. It should start at that point of her testimony.. if not, the time is 1:33:54.

It's sooo frustrating though.... Spatter expert can only say what type of spatter it is. I want her to say exactly what happened there at the sink!


http://youtu.be/mS6iQ2QZKHo?t=1h33m54s

Thanks to Tawndilly for all of these videos!!!!

 

[danzn16]

So even the blood spatter expert says that it would be from the coughing or laceration but not from the gun shot... okk... so 2 experts here saying gun shot came last.

:waitasec:

 

[danzn16]

she also states the head is a very vascular area and would bleed extensively.

again another expert stating a gun shot wound would bleed a lot. and again there was not a lot of blood in the cranial cavity... only one reason how that could be.

 

[s.lash]

It is true that people have lived from gun shot wounds to the frontal lobes. However almost ever case report that I can find from these events, the patient was unconscious and required very extensive stays in hospitals and rehabilitation before that were able to walk and function normally. Survival is not what we are discussing in this case since unfortunately TA did not survive. It is the immediate impact on what a gun shot wound would do to a person, whether it was survivable or not. If someone could find a case report of a gun shot to the frontal lobe and that person was able to continue moving around, trying to escape, crawling a distance, etc, that would be helpful. But it would still not explain the no perfuse bleeding that TA did not experience like every other gun shot victim does.

My step-dad shot himself in the right temple. The bullet traveled through the entire frontal lobe, shattering when it struck the left temple. It was a .22 caliber Ruger pistol. He never lost consciousness. Even had the sense to hide the gun before he left the barn. He walked from the horse-stall he did it in, out the back door of the barn, along the front length of the barn (about 40 feet) and then across the yard to a tree where he sat down and waited for my mother to find him. There was very little bleeding, and what drops did come out of the wound, he dabbed with his handkerchief. He was still conscious when she got there. He was conscious when he arrived at the first hospital, and at the second several hours later. He only lost consciousness when they deliberately induced a coma to speed healing. But up until that time, which was at least six hours later, he was communicating and awake. The bullet destroyed most of his frontal lobe, shattered all his sinus bones, blinded him in both eyes, and even created a rupture between his brain cavity and his nasal cavity. I think it's entirely possible that someone could have survived this type of injury and still maintained consciousness.

 

[ExigentPlan]

I've put a lot of thought into this and here"s my theory... It's the only thing that fits in my humble opinion.

First off, premeditation isn't of any doubt. I believe she stole the gun from grandfather. The 100 mile away rental car (200 mile round trip for the person taking her to get the car) was an attempt to hide her tracks. The gas cans, of course, were so that there wouldn't beamy "record" of her driving thru Az in that rental car. But let's get to what happened in Mesa...

Keep in mind that there is typically some shred of truth in any calculated lie. She arrived and, as she said, first went to get some sleep. She used this opportunity to hide the gun that she brought in her purse or bag. And her claims the gun was in the closet are probably correct, because that"s where she hid it. Now I know what some of you may be asking, "why would she immediately hide th gun?" It all goes right along with this being premeditated. Her efforts that day all were directed towards putting Travis at ease and try to get him into a vulnerable position where she could safely carry out the murder. Of course, she had to wait for roommate to leave.

Her story of being tied to the bed have a shred of truth in the them too. Only she was trying to tie Travis to the bed. If she was successful in securing him to the bed then she would have killed him there while he couldn't resist. So either TA refused to submit to being tied, or more likely, agreed to try it. However, more shreds of truth in her lies, she couldn't effectively secure him. With the type of bed not being conducive to that act, she couldn't tie thing tight or well enough and he was able to slip out of the binds. And BTW, she probably did cut a rope and used that opportunity to stash the knife in the bathroom. This was her original plan and she probably intended to retrieve the gun she hid while he was secured and shoot him.

But it didn't work, he wasn't secured and vulnerable. Everything else that afternoon was nothing more than trying find another opportunity to make him vulnerable. And then it came to her. She'd get him to pose while in the shower. The pictures she was taking were nothing more than a ruse to direct him. She wasn't showing him and deleting them as they were taken, the time sequence doesn't really provide the time for that. And, supposedly being a budding pro photographer, the extremely poor quality just show she wasn't even focused on the task - just the direction.

Finally she gets TA into the vulnerable position of sitting in the shower. At this time she whips the knife out and with an underhand motion lunges Ian's stabs him in the chest. She keeps swinging with the knife as he tries to get up. This is when the defensive wounds on the front of his hands occur as well as the additional front and side wounds occurred. At this point TA probably grabs at her, explaining the clumps of her hair found. But since she just keeps swinging with the knife, fight or flight turns to flight. As he tries to get away he turns his back on JA, ends up near the sink spitting up blood as he sustains multiple more wounds to his back. The defensive wounds to the back of his hands either occurs here or with the next attack.

Barely loading on now TA just tries to get away. Stumbling and crawling down the hall with JA trying to stop him from getting away (another shred of being caught in the hallway). Still struggling to crawl or claw is way out, JA straddles his back at the end of the hall and plunges the knife into the back of his skull. TA is still struggling while dying, moaning and JA grabs him by the hair, lifts his head and forcefully slices through his neck. While previous wounds would have likely proven fatal very soon, this one finally ends it. Or so she thinks.

Probably after waiting a few minutes, She begins to drag TA back into the bathroom figuring she will try to wash off any forensic evidence in the shower of her being there. While dragging him, as she enters the bathroom area, there is either an Agonal breath (final gasp) or some other moan or gurgling caused by escaping gases as the body was moved. She drops him scared that he may still be alive. Being a little calmer now and to filled with the rage she had during the knife attack she wants to just end any possibility of him being alive. She retrieves her hidden gun from the closet, calmly shoot him in the temple right where she dropped his body. Then finishes dragging TA into the shower.

JA planned the murder for quite some time. Her initial plan fell apart, but she adapted and developed a new one until her goal was accomplished. That's my theory.

 

[cami]

okay, I will go first

I think he was stabbed in the chest first right after the last alive picture.

I think he went forward and she started stabbing his back and the back of his head (the camera is still in her hand, at this point... her right had which was pointed out in testimony). He sustains most of the defensive wounds at this point while is he is bent forward guarding his head.

The ceiling picture (which in testimony was taken right side up from waist height) was taken on accident somewhere here..after which the camera drops.

Travis comes out of the shower area and she stabs him again (maybe the stomach stab) that leaves blood on the floor by the toilet and where the scale was moved to.

He moves to the sink and bleeds over the sink coughing and spraying blood on the back of the mirror.

He moves down the closet side of the hall (waist high drag marks on the wall so he could be crouched over at this point) and ends up by the carpet area.

He collapses and his throat is slashed there on the carpet area.

She drags him back along the other side of the wall to the shower area.

she puts him into the shower (which is still running most likely).

She then goes to her purse to get the gun (some small amounts were found near the dresser) and she shoots him in the head.

I am still not sure if the water on the floor came from the running shower and Travis who had been in the shower or if she splashed some around for effect. The rug and the scale both showed signs of being moved.

:moo:

ITA with your scenario, I believe she was stabbing at him at he tried to crawl down the hallway and when he collapsed she slit his throat right there in the entrance to the bedroom, then dragged him back into the running shower as his body was pretty cleaned of blood. Then she shot him.

She took the glass and poured some water around, maybe she was attempted to try and clean up and realized she better hit the road.

 

[Jimmynap]

I've put a lot of thought into this and here"s my theory... It's the only thing that fits in my humble opinion.

First off, premeditation isn't of any doubt. I believe she stole the gun from grandfather. The 100 mile away rental car (200 mile round trip for the person taking her to get the car) was an attempt to hide her tracks. The gas cans, of course, were so that there wouldn't beamy "record" of her driving thru Az in that rental car. But let's get to what happened in Mesa...

Keep in mind that there is typically some shred of truth in any calculated lie. She arrived and, as she said, first went to get some sleep. She used this opportunity to hide the gun that she brought in her purse or bag. And her claims the gun was in the closet are probably correct, because that"s where she hid it. Now I know what some of you may be asking, "why would she immediately hide th gun?" It all goes right along with this being premeditated. Her efforts that day all were directed towards putting Travis at ease and try to get him into a vulnerable position where she could safely carry out the murder. Of course, she had to wait for roommate to leave.

Her story of being tied to the bed have a shred of truth in the them too. Only she was trying to tie Travis to the bed. If she was successful in securing him to the bed then she would have killed him there while he couldn't resist. So either TA refused to submit to being tied, or more likely, agreed to try it. However, more shreds of truth in her lies, she couldn't effectively secure him. With the type of bed not being conducive to that act, she couldn't tie thing tight or well enough and he was able to slip out of the binds. And BTW, she probably did cut a rope and used that opportunity to stash the knife in the bathroom. This was her original plan and she probably intended to retrieve the gun she hid while he was secured and shoot him.

But it didn't work, he wasn't secured and vulnerable. Everything else that afternoon was nothing more than trying find another opportunity to make him vulnerable. And then it came to her. She'd get him to pose while in the shower. The pictures she was taking were nothing more than a ruse to direct him. She wasn't showing him and deleting them as they were taken, the time sequence doesn't really provide the time for that. And, supposedly being a budding pro photographer, the extremely poor quality just show she wasn't even focused on the task - just the direction.

Finally she gets TA into the vulnerable position of sitting in the shower. At this time she whips the knife out and with an underhand motion lunges Ian's stabs him in the chest. She keeps swinging with the knife as he tries to get up. This is when the defensive wounds on the front of his hands occur as well as the additional front and side wounds occurred. At this point TA probably grabs at her, explaining the clumps of her hair found. But since she just keeps swinging with the knife, fight or flight turns to flight. As he tries to get away he turns his back on JA, ends up near the sink spitting up blood as he sustains multiple more wounds to his back. The defensive wounds to the back of his hands either occurs here or with the next attack.

Barely loading on now TA just tries to get away. Stumbling and crawling down the hall with JA trying to stop him from getting away (another shred of being caught in the hallway). Still struggling to crawl or claw is way out, JA straddles his back at the end of the hall and plunges the knife into the back of his skull. TA is still struggling while dying, moaning and JA grabs him by the hair, lifts his head and forcefully slices through his neck. While previous wounds would have likely proven fatal very soon, this one finally ends it. Or so she thinks.

Probably after waiting a few minutes, She begins to drag TA back into the bathroom figuring she will try to wash off any forensic evidence in the shower of her being there. While dragging him, as she enters the bathroom area, there is either an Agonal breath (final gasp) or some other moan or gurgling caused by escaping gases as the body was moved. She drops him scared that he may still be alive. Being a little calmer now and to filled with the rage she had during the knife attack she wants to just end any possibility of him being alive. She retrieves her hidden gun from the closet, calmly shoot him in the temple right where she dropped his body. Then finishes dragging TA into the shower.

JA planned the murder for quite some time. Her initial plan fell apart, but she adapted and developed a new one until her goal was accomplished. That's my theory.

I like a lot of this. What I would change:
No need for the closet - if he was in the shower she could easily have the gun somewhere within reach.
I see the tie to bed easily done but wants to deflect from looking like a female so chooses the shower.
Her first plan is to keep it inside shower stall, easy cleanup and I would not put it past her to do a slice and dice, bag it, and drive it to desert.
Got messy and time becomes a factor but it can look like male or multiple persons.
Now i'm sure she wanted to shoot and empty gun but the first shot was too loud so she stopped.
Unless I missed something the rest just as you say.

 

[dizzychick]

This is what I think happened:

She stole the gun from her grandparents with the idea in her head that she would kill Travis if he didn't take her back.

She went on the road trip with intention to kill Travis when she knew she would never get him back. The fact that he was taking another woman to Cancun really bothered her.

She got herself in his house with him probably thinking it was their last time having sex. Travis did want to rid himself of her but it was hard to say goodbye to premarital sex.

She brought the gun into his house.

They had sex.

They goofed around a little bit and then Travis went to get a shower.

Something tells me she shot him first. The gun shot wound did not kill him right away as the bullet was lodged in his cheek. I think it really messed him up though and she panicked probably over the load sound. This is an apartment building. If she fired more shots it would be obvious it was a gun.

Because the gunshot wound didnt kill him she ran to get a knife... this would explain how Travis made it all the way to the bedroom... he had a minute or two to travel away...

She came back and just started slaughtering him. She didn't want him to survive.

This would explain the massive amount of blood in the bedroom. I think she slit his throat right there.

Then dragged him back to the bathroom and put him in the shower so the rest of his blood would go down the drain.

Then she wiped up the blood on the bathroom floor, probably with that shirt.

Spot on I think she shot him first too, this rendered him no longer a threat to fight back, I think she may have thought that one shot would kill him but it didnt, he ran out of the shower and spit blood in the sink and probably screaming just like she said, remember there is a little truth in her lies, then she went for the knife which may or may not have been in the bedroom probably not she had to go get it or she had it just in case, she then starting stabbing him in a frenzy for two reasons, one to unleash pent up anger she had over his atempts to control her and his replacing her with MiMi and two possible to " put him out of his misery", by the time she calmed down it was too late.

You can tell she is a dingbat to some degree recalling she accidentaly took her ex boyfriends remote control, this is the same thing that happened with the camera it wound up in the washer by accident.

her clean up was very poorly done. She might not have wanted to kill him but rather wanted him to take her back as a girlfriend and marriage partner, when he said no that sealed his fate.

 

[ExigentPlan]

... this is the same thing that happened with the camera it wound up in the washer by accident.

I don't believe it was accidental at all that the camera ended up in the wash. I believe that after deleting the photos she threw it in with the wash to clean off any DNA (and fingerprints) of her own, just like she did with the sheets. Maybe even thinking that going through a wash cycle would destroy the memory card too but I doubt she even thought of that or he just would've taken the card. She supposedly even washed the knife in the dishwasher. She didn't want to take anything she didn"t have to take from the house and be caught with it. She probably took the gun just in case she needed it for her getaway and because it could be traced to her stealing it from grandpa.

 

[Isabelle]

Here is what I am considering: While sitting in the shower, Travis was stabbed on the side of his head, his hands went up defensively, then stabbed in the chest. He leans forward to exit shower from seated position and is then stabbed in the back, as he is trying to rise, using his arms, he is further stabbed in the chest. Stumbles out of the shower and is further stabbed in the back of the head (Jodi is somewhat above him), Travis is bending/curling his body leaving Jodi clear access to the back of his head, where she continues her assault and Travis drops to his knees trying to escape. Jodi straddles him and slices his throat from ear to ear. She turns him over and notes sounds coming from the open slash in his throat and shoots him in the right forehead. What a monster!

 

[buckeyefan1]

I voted shot him first. She had the gun with her since that was her plan to shoot him. Like others have said when he did not die from the gunshot wound and staggered to the sink that was when she got a knife maybe from the bedroom and started stabbing him. I also think she slit his throat to make it look like a much stronger person would have done it adding credibility to her ninja story.

 

[forb8182]

My step-dad shot himself in the right temple. The bullet traveled through the entire frontal lobe, shattering when it struck the left temple. It was a .22 caliber Ruger pistol. He never lost consciousness. Even had the sense to hide the gun before he left the barn. He walked from the horse-stall he did it in, out the back door of the barn, along the front length of the barn (about 40 feet) and then across the yard to a tree where he sat down and waited for my mother to find him. There was very little bleeding, and what drops did come out of the wound, he dabbed with his handkerchief. He was still conscious when she got there. He was conscious when he arrived at the first hospital, and at the second several hours later. He only lost consciousness when they deliberately induced a coma to speed healing. But up until that time, which was at least six hours later, he was communicating and awake. The bullet destroyed most of his frontal lobe, shattered all his sinus bones, blinded him in both eyes, and even created a rupture between his brain cavity and his nasal cavity. I think it's entirely possible that someone could have survived this type of injury and still maintained consciousness.

It is possible..Brings to mind the Christopher Sutton case in Florida. Father called 911 himself and says he was blind, couldn't see and never lost consciousness at all.

 

[forb8182]

It is true that people have lived from gun shot wounds to the frontal lobes. However almost ever case report that I can find from these events, the patient was unconscious and required very extensive stays in hospitals and rehabilitation before that were able to walk and function normally. Survival is not what we are discussing in this case since unfortunately TA did not survive. It is the immediate impact on what a gun shot wound would do to a person, whether it was survivable or not. If someone could find a case report of a gun shot to the frontal lobe and that person was able to continue moving around, trying to escape, crawling a distance, etc, that would be helpful. But it would still not explain the no perfuse bleeding that TA did not experience like every other gun shot victim does.

The Christopher Sutton case in Florida. Not sure exactly where in the head father was shot but he called 911 and even tho blinded he walked out to ambulance unassisted..He is an amazing man.

 

[molly333]

Thanks for this thread.

I am a gun firster and I thought I was pretty much alone, but I see at least a third agree.

I spent a lot of time thinking of various scenarios. I hope the Jury doesn't feel they have to do this, but they probably will. If I understand correctly, Travis had two fatal wounds, the stab to the vena cava and the cut to the jugular vein. Was the carotid cut too in that throat slash? Anyway, none of the other wounds would have killed him, at least not quickly.

The head wound was 'superficial' to the brain. The ME felt it had entered the right frontal lobe because there was a hole in the skull and he said in young people the brain abuts the skull. He felt the brain had to be hit, even though the bullet then lodges in the left cheek. There was not enough brain material left due to decomposition to follow any track the bullet might have taken causing damage to the brain. I think decomposition interfered with him adequately examining this wound.

At first, I thought the head wound would incapacitate him. After all, a gunshot wound to the brain cannot be a good thing to quickly recover from. But, later I realized the small caliber of the bullet and the superficiality of the wound, maybe running along the inside of the skull into the nasal passages may have rendered it more like a blow to the head which would stun him but not incapacitate. I remember Jodi saying in her ninja story that Travis was on his knees on the ground saying, my head hurts.

Usually two weapons means two killers. Or, it means that one weapon fails so the killer goes for the second weapon. I don't believe Jodi brought a knife with her to Travis house. I think she used one of the knives from the house when the gun jammed.

A knife is not an ideal weapon for a small woman to use against a big man. Jodi had no medical or combat training. If she were confronting him with a knife, she would have one chance to get it right. If she didn't, he would disarm her, and the game would be over. Really the only blow that would count would be the two fatal knife wounds. So did she slash the jugular first? That would give him about two minutes to live. But how easy is that. He can move and she misses it. Or if she doesn't slash deep enough, she misses it. Then the game is over. What about the vena cava? It is not so easy to hit the heart. The heart is well protected by the rib cage. There is also cartilege between the ribs which is not that easy to penetrate. So it would have to be a forceful and accurate blow to work on the first try. One miss and the game is up. In the case of this wound, I think it came from the front and under the ribs and up. But, even so, the vena cava is almost at the back near the spine. This was a deep wound. Again, not deep enough and the game is over. None of the other knife wounds would have stopped him. But even with the vena cava wound, the ME said, since it is a vein he would have been able to continue and be mobile for some period of time. That means he still might have been able to overcome her, even with that serious wound.

We know Jodi brought grandpa's gun with her; That's been proven with circumstantial evidence. Therefore, this would have been her weapon of choice and the first one she would have used. Why use a knife against a big man if you have a gun? Especially if you brought the gun. It would make no sense.

I think her intent was to get him into the shower and shoot him there--no mess. I think she was holding the gun on him while he was in the shower and ordering him to pose while she took pictures. I think the last head picture of him --he is looking down the barrel of a gun and she is the one saying one of her pet phrases, 'F-ing kill you b###'
That look on his face has haunted me since I first saw it. It is the look of a man staring into death and recognizing the monster behind the gun for the first time.

I think she shot him while he was sitting in the shower, from above and from the right side. I think he is shot in the last shower picture before she drops the camera. I think he is still alive when the gun jams. And, then she goes for the knife.

He did a minimal amount of defending himself. It was all passive, thus the defensive wounds. He managed to get up to the sink. He is bleeding heavily there, and the ME says the misted blood at the sink is him coughing. But, once he is shot in the head, he is no longer able to think his way out of the situation to defend himself against her.