Jodi Arias; the sequence of events

[pip]

I thought that was a possibility at first, too, but I think
TA would've moved in the 70 seconds between the last two shower photos, especially given that we know he tried to fight or flee after he was initially struck.

I think the first blow was struck in the 44 seconds between
The last shower photo and the bathroom ceiling photo.

Me too. Shot with the gun and then when he didn't succumb and began to get out of the shower she freaked and the camera went off. He went to the sink dazed and confused and she couldn't shoot again so she went for the knife. I think he went down on all fours in the bathroom when she stuck the knife in his heart.

 

[pip]

I think he was only able to crawl down the hall. Do you think the grouping of 9 stab wounds to his back happened as he stood at the sink or as he crawled down the hallway?

 

[pip]

I think if it was the knife she hit him with first, she would have set the camera down to do it. If it was the gun, she may have had the camera in one hand and the gun in the other.

 

[molly333]

<strutting into the room>

Linda Kenney Baden is a gun firster! :great:

[And we know she talks to her husband].

She read from the autopsy report and pointed out, as we have, that it says the brain was not damaged by the bullet.

LKB: If you look at the Medical Examiner's report..."without gross evidence of significant intracranial hemorrhage --that's no bleeding--or apparent cerebral injury"...

that means there's no damage to the brain so of course he died of stab wounds but the reason he was able to die from stab wounds is because he was shot first ..he was stunned...she shot him from a couple of feet away, that's why there's no stippling..and therefore, he then gets stabbed and that was overkill ..29 stab wounds.. but the shot came first. I don't know why the Prosecution doesn't want the shot first...it helps their case that she intentionally wanted to kill him!

[She says the ME's testimony doesn't make any sense]...and I would have crossed him to kingdom come...I think they threw that police officer under the bus..I think the police officer who heard the Medical Examiner say that the shot was first and the stab wounds second initially was correct ... that's why you bring a gun to a fight..you don't bring a gun to a fight to scare somebody since stabbing is the overkill and the coup de gras is the neck wound ...the coup de gras is not the gunshot because she would have put that gun right to his face...[points gun to head]...I think the gunshot came first.

Casing--movable crime scene, that could have been kicked..you can't go by where the casing is.

I think she killed him...I think that she shot him first and that she was so angry..that's why she slit his throat afterwards...


--------

By the way, the autopsy report says cause of death is the knife wounds. More evidence the ME changed his mind on the stand.

IMO

 

[pip]

When you apply Jodi's history, psychopathology rageful state of mind and her purpose for this killing, a few things come to my mind which dictate the initial sequence of events.
She cannot accept that Travis will not love her.
She is at her breaking point. This is it.
She has no control over Travis, despite all that she has done to manipulate him into loving her.
Jodi is very verbose.
Jodi would have to verbally confront Travis about her pain and how cruel he is.
Jodi wants complete control over Travis so she can unleash her feelings of hurt and rage.
A knife would not work. She had him caged like an animal at gunpoint in the shower so she could confront him and have her say, before she killed him.

There is no way Jodi killed him without unleashing a verbal rage on him first. A gun is the only way she would feel in complete control to do so.

 

[pip]

<strutting into the room>

Linda Kenney Baden is a gun firster! :great:

[And we know she talks to her husband].

She read from the autopsy report and pointed out, as we have, that it says the brain was not damaged by the bullet.

LKB: If you look at the Medical Examiner's report..."without gross evidence of significant intracranial hemorrhage --that's no bleeding--or apparent cerebral injury"...

that means there's no damage to the brain so of course he died of stab wounds but the reason he was able to die from stab wounds is because he was shot first ..he was stunned...she shot him from a couple of feet away, that's why there's no stippling..and therefore, he then gets stabbed and that was overkill ..29 stab wounds.. but the shot came first. I don't know why the Prosecution doesn't want the shot first...it helps their case that she intentionally wanted to kill him!

[She says the ME's testimony doesn't make any sense]...and I would have crossed him to kingdom come...I think they threw that police officer under the bus..I think the police officer who heard the Medical Examiner say that the shot was first and the stab wounds second initially was correct ... that's why you bring a gun to a fight..you don't bring a gun to a fight to scare somebody since stabbing is the overkill and the coup de gras is the neck wound ...the coup de gras is not the gunshot because she would have put that gun right to his face...[points gun to head]...I think the gunshot came first.

Casing--movable crime scene, that could have been kicked..you can't go by where the casing is.

I think she killed him...I think that she shot him first and that she was so angry..that's why she slit his throat afterwards...


--------

By the way, the autopsy report says cause of death is the knife wounds. More evidence the ME changed his mind on the stand.

IMO

Exactly what we have been saying! Duh! She hit it dead on. Something fishy in the desert... It is sooo freaking obvious! I'm glad she pointed out his autopsy report, Ding Ding Ding.

 

[molly333]

From the autopsy report:


Based on the autopsy findings and investigative history, as available to me, it is my opinion that Travis Victor Alexander, a 30-year-old-Caucasian male, died as a result of sharp force trauma of the neck and torso.


The manner of death is homocide.



http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/redactedtravisautopsy.pdf

 

[RealityMan]

The defense should call Dr. Baden. Having a forensic pathologist of his stature poke holes in the prosecution's case would only help JA. If this forum is any indication, two thirds of the people on the jury are willing to accept the ME's opinion as gospel, disregarding all evidence to the contrary. In other words, two-thirds of the jurors will not accept JA's version of events primarily because of the ME's testimony. The defense needs to completely refute the ME's opinion with another expert. And apparently there is no shortage of such experts who have reviewed the autopsy report and disagree with the ultimate conclusion of the ME that TA could not have sustained defensive wounds to his hands after suffering the gunshot wound.

 

[Captain86]

Ah, good to be back.



Nice to see some expert validation of the views of a minority here who have it right!



I think this makes sense. Some may argue that the shock and awe of an initial stab would would leave the victim unable to respond. Such a situation would immediately trigger the fight or flight reaction (autonomic response of the sympathetic nervous system), and the victim will be fighting back vigorously for his life until blood loss would make this difficult.




This. And I'm guessing ER docs weren't rushing to their computers afterword to write up these cases for publication in medical journals, as, sadly, they are neither particularly rare or novel.

Dave

Many, many people freeze in highly stressful situations. The Fight or Flight system does not always get triggered as you like to imply. Now, I would say that his did which is why he has defensive wounds on his hands and was heading down the hallway toward the stairs. The element of surprise often dictates which option an individual goes with. So, to imply that he most definitely would fight back in the form that you image he would is really misleading.

The issue is not whether someone could still be functional after getting shot in the head. That depends on the caliber and the path of the bullet. Far more people die really quickly from gunshots to the head than walk to McDonald's for a burger and fries. The issue is the forensic evidence points to there being little to no blood in the Cranial Vault after the gunshot. This is a rather clear indication that either blood could not get there (his throat was already cut) or there was no blood to get there because he had bled out.

 

[RealityMan]

I think he was only able to crawl down the hall. Do you think the grouping of 9 stab wounds to his back happened as he stood at the sink or as he crawled down the hallway?

My guess would be that JA inflicted those stab wounds to the back as TA attempted his futile escape down the hallway.

 

[pip]

Dr. Horn's claim that the bullet 'had to pass thru the frontal lobe' has no merit. He has chosen a stance, yet can't back it up even with his own autopsy report. He has no forensic evidence to prove his claim, actually he documented just the opposite. Sketch.

 

[molly333]

Exactly what we have been saying! Duh! She hit it dead on. Something fishy in the desert... It is sooo freaking obvious! I'm glad she pointed out his autopsy report, Ding Ding Ding.

Yep. I was amazed. It was like she was reading here. :what:


Or maybe YOU are LKB. lol

HLN After Dark was very good tonight. They did a mock up of the crime scene. I was shocked at how small it was. I had pictured it in my head as much bigger.

The hallway from the bathroom was much shorter than I had envisioned it. Vinnie covered the whole hallway in about 4 and a half steps. And, he wasn't running. The closet is the same length, of course, and likewise, much smaller than I had pictured it. When you see a man in these spaces, there is no way her story makes sense. Also the bathroom was much smaller than I thought. There was hardly any room for him to do his flying linebacker lunge at her even if she had her back to the wall which she said she did not.

Maybe JM can borrow that crime scene set up. Also, the Defense atty's tonight said even if your client is lying, the blood tells the story. I haven't really seen a good description of the blood spatter. For instance, they said there was no blood spatter in the hallway--it was all in the bathroom...? Does anyone know where we can get a better description of the blood spatter? Was there a blood spatter expert for the prosecution?

One desturbing thing tonight: they had their Jury deliberate the question of the night--Did Travis attack Jody?

It was a hung Jury. Ten said no but two women said yes.

That's not good.

IMO

 

[RealityMan]

The issue is the forensic evidence points to there being little to no blood in the Cranial Vault after the gunshot. This is a rather clear indication that either blood could not get there (his throat was already cut) or there was no blood to get there because he had bled out.

I'm willing to bet Dr. Baden has considered everything in the ME's autopsy report in reaching his conclusion that the gunshot wound came first.

 

[geevee]

<strutting into the room>

Linda Kenney Baden is a gun firster! :great:

[And we know she talks to her husband].

She read from the autopsy report and pointed out, as we have, that it says the brain was not damaged by the bullet.

LKB: If you look at the Medical Examiner's report..."without gross evidence of significant intracranial hemorrhage --that's no bleeding--or apparent cerebral injury"...

that means there's no damage to the brain so of course he died of stab wounds but the reason he was able to die from stab wounds is because he was shot first ..he was stunned...she shot him from a couple of feet away, that's why there's no stippling..and therefore, he then gets stabbed and that was overkill ..29 stab wounds.. but the shot came first. I don't know why the Prosecution doesn't want the shot first...it helps their case that she intentionally wanted to kill him!

[She says the ME's testimony doesn't make any sense]...and I would have crossed him to kingdom come...I think they threw that police officer under the bus..I think the police officer who heard the Medical Examiner say that the shot was first and the stab wounds second initially was correct ... that's why you bring a gun to a fight..you don't bring a gun to a fight to scare somebody since stabbing is the overkill and the coup de gras is the neck wound ...the coup de gras is not the gunshot because she would have put that gun right to his face...[points gun to head]...I think the gunshot came first.

Casing--movable crime scene, that could have been kicked..you can't go by where the casing is.

I think she killed him...I think that she shot him first and that she was so angry..that's why she slit his throat afterwards...


--------

By the way, the autopsy report says cause of death is the knife wounds. More evidence the ME changed his mind on the stand.

IMO

Yes, and being shot in the location that he was, even if it hadn't damaged the optic nerve the blood pouring down would have limited his vision greatly. I also think he likely got the back stab wounds when he was on his knees.

 

[molly333]

Yes, and being shot in the location that he was, even if it hadn't damaged the optic nerve the blood pouring down would have limited his vision greatly. I also think he likely got the back stab wounds when he was on his knees.

One other thing they showed tonight. They showed a bloody hand print [I don't think they said whose it was] that was very close to the ground in the hallway just leaving the bathroom area. So he was crawling out of the bathroom, my guess. Maybe even trying to feel his way out.

IMO

 

[RealityMan]

I think if it was the knife she hit him with first, she would have set the camera down to do it. If it was the gun, she may have had the camera in one hand and the gun in the other.

I wonder about that as well. In my opinion, JA must have been carrying the camera in her right hand for the entire one minute and 46 second sequence of events during the murder. We know she was holding it 44 seconds after the last shower shot, when she accidentally took the photo of the bathroom ceiling. It just doesn't make sense that the camera would've reached the end of the hallway and been positioned so perfectly to take those last two bleeding photos unless the camera was still in her hand 62 seconds after the bathroom ceiling photo was taken.

I think she did all of the stabbing with her left hand while holding the camera in her right hand. TA was severely injured by the gunshot wound, so she didn't have to use both hands when wielding the knife to finish the job.

 

[molly333]

I wonder about that as well. In my opinion, JA must have been carrying the camera in her right hand for the entire one minute and 46 second time period. It just doesn't make sense that the camera would've reached the end of the hallway and been positioned so perfectly to take those last two bleeding photos unless the camera was still in her hand.

I think she did all of the stabbing with her left hand while holding the camera. TA was severely injured by the gunshot wound, so she didn't have to use both hands when wielding the knife to finish the job.

So, if that's true, that means she meant to document his murder on film. And, when things went wrong and she had to resort to the knife, she knew he was not able to put up much of a fight, or she would not have continued to hold the camera.

He was so disabled by the gunshot that it was like shooting fish in a barrel at that point.:furious:


IMO

 

[pip]

Yes, and being shot in the location that he was, even if it hadn't damaged the optic nerve the blood pouring down would have limited his vision greatly. I also think he likely got the back stab wounds when he was on his knees.

I just can't see how his right eye would not have been damaged with the point of entry and the tragectory of the bullet. The bullet also traveled more towards the front of his facial skeleton than towards the back, meaning even less chance of hitting the brain. It entered above the right eyebrow and moved away from the brain and thru the sinus cavity, as opposed to towards or into the brain. A facial injury. Explains why the dura mater was intact.

 

[RealityMan]

So, if that's true, that means she meant to document his murder on film. And, when things went wrong and she had to resort to the knife, she knew he was not able to put up much of a fight, or she would not have continued to hold the camera.

He was so disabled by the gunshot that it was like shooting fish in a barrel at that point.:furious:


IMO

She used the camera merely to lure TA into the most vulnerable position should could think of before delivering the initial blow.

I don't think she meant to document the rest of the events. Maybe she just forgot she was holding the camera in her right hand as she slashed and stabbed away at TA with the knife in her left hand. 62 seconds is not a lot of time.

 

[New1]

I watched HLN After Dark tonight where they had a mock-up of the crime scene, and someone pointed out that there is no blood from the bathroom down the hallway till you get to the end of the hallway where there is that huge spot of blood. How could that be if he was shot in the bathroom and ran down that hall chasing after JA or even crawled out of the shower after he was shot and crawled down that hallway? They also pointed out that after TA supposedly body slammed her and she rolled to the left, she would still have had to pass right by TA in a very tight space. He could have stopped her before she got past him and into that closet if it happened the way she said it did. Also, I think it would be very hard, if not impossible, to step out of the shower with wet feet and pick someone up and body slam them. I cannot figure out how this happened, but I'm convinced she went there with the intention of killing him if he didn't change his mind about taking her to Cancun. He wouldn't change his mind even after the afternoon of sex, so she carried out Plan B.