Jodi Arias Trial discussion, #3

[indicat]

Sorry, but I disagree. I think the religious aspect is HUGE. In fact, if the defense does their job well, they will play up the religious aspect to the 10th power.

I say this because:
1. Travis was a Mormon of somewhat high standing. It was so important to him that he sent California Mormons to Jodi's house to "work on her." He succeeded in converting her. That, the defense can say, shows he had enormous influence over Jodi. In fact, they could put forth that Travis kind of BRAINWASHED Jodi into his "cult." That's what Jose Baez would say!

2. The Mormon belief places men on a throne, and women as their foot-servants. Mormon women can't even get into heaven on their own virtues; they're accepted only if their husband "invites" them. And we've heard all those other cult-related stereotypes about how Mormon women are dominated by their men. If the defense works this angle, this can cause a good amount of uncertainty about who Travis may have been in an intimate relationship.

And

3. To my knowledge, other religions today won't actually kick members out for fornicating. But the Mormons take fornication very seriously and will disgrace you with excommunication. The defense could argue, "What else, other than the obvious fornicating, was Travis sneaking and doing that was unsavory? Was he possibly violent with the lowly girl who 'soiled' him?"

I am mormon and this is exactly what I mean by total misrepresentation and onesided view. If I were what is it? A put upon handmaiden I would be in bed with my husband right now and not on this board that he disaproves of and doesnt understand how I get into some of these cases! I absolutley know my worth as a person with or without a husband. All these things I'm reading about my religion are not my expirences and I was very wild at one time.

 

[belimom]

I think the only place religion has in the trial is for the defense to try to prove that there was another side to Travis, a side that he hid from the church/friends/family. Could there be another side that he hid from girlfriends - an abusive side? I don't think they'll have much success with this path because I don't think JA has defensive wounds, plus there is almost always someone else who can verify someone's abusive/controlling tendencies. And so far, there is no one else backing that up regarding Travis. Plus her own actions afterwards speak otherwise: if you had killed someone in self-defense, why not notify LE? How could you visit someone else just hours later as if nothing happened? To me, that speaks volumes. If it was self-defense and completely unexpected, it would have rattled her to the core. But it didn't. She was her normal self, having small talk with people, saw another man, etc.

 

[indicat]

Thank you and my apologies for the "shunning" comment. An earlier post mentioned "disfellowshiping" and "excommunication" and I translated that to shunning. Again apologies, but that was my understanding thanks for helping us out.

No apologies nesessary. I understand how it can come across this way. I feel like everyone's thinking its a church of damnation, not salvation.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I am mormon and this is exactly what I mean by total misrepresentation and onesided view. If I were what is it? A put upon handmaiden I would be in bed with my husband right now and not on this board that he disaproves of and doesnt understand how I get into some of these cases! I absolutley know my worth as a person with or without a husband. All these things I'm reading about my religion are not my expirences and I was very wild at one time.

Please dot be offended.

Many of the posts here demonstrate just how ignorant people are about other people's religions.

If I understand the previous posters comments they were made to point out the ignorance and prejudices of the jury and play them up. It was a suggestion for the defense.

 

[Sulamith]

Sorry, but I disagree. I think the religious aspect is HUGE. In fact, if the defense does their job well, they will play up the religious aspect to the 10th power. I say this because:

1. Travis was a Mormon of somewhat high standing. It was so important to him that he sent California Mormons to Jodi's house to "work on her." He succeeded in converting her. That, the defense can say, shows he had enormous influence over Jodi. In fact, they could put forth that Travis kind of BRAINWASHED Jodi into his "cult."

2. The Mormon belief places men on a throne, and women as their foot-servants. Mormon women can't even get into heaven on their own virtues; they're accepted only if their husband "invites" them. And we've heard all those other cult-related stereotypes about how Mormon women are dominated by their men. If the defense works this angle, this can cause uncertainty about who Travis may have been in an intimate relationship.

3. To my knowledge, other religions today won't actually kick members out for fornicating. But the Mormons take fornication very seriously and will disgrace you with excommunication. The defense could argue, "What else, other than the obvious fornicating, was Travis sneaking and doing that was unsavory? Was he possibly violent with the lowly girl who 'soiled' him?"

Right or Wrong, I bet what you have laid out there is exactly what the defense will do. Might be why they were asking all those Mormon-related questions to Mimi Hall on day 1. I cannot imagine what other avenue they would take.

 

[indicat]

So in reality, it's really not that big a deal. Speaking objectively, as an atheist....you can be forgiven, there isn't a hell, even the crappy circle of heaven is better than anyone can imagine....

Doesn't sound much different from other Christian religions to me. The no hell thing is a plus.

Perhaps it's just a tad more embarrassing because its confessed to a human being, like Catholics ...sorta.

Dont get me wrong, they are serious things, just not the oh your done for so long and good luck. Like I said, it's very complicated, not cut and dried. Anywhoo, nope no hell but that which we put ourselves through.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Right or Wrong, I bet what you have laid out there is exactly what the defense will do. Might be why they were asking all those Mormon-related questions to Mimi Hall on day 1. I cannot imagine what other avenue they would take.

It's not like Jodi gave the defense something to work with!

Grasping at straws....

 

[Knox]

Not to me. Arias is a Hispanic surname, and her mother looks Hispanic as well. Also, Jodi was learning Spanish in jail, probably not a coincidence that she didn't take up Chinese or Japanese.

I thought I read (years ago) that Jodi is not an Arias by birth and BA is her step-father?

I feel for her family. Her sister has made a few comments recently, which indicate the family is experiencing backlash, particularly now that the trial has began.

I hadn't looked at the Myspace photo's for a few years, those of she and Travis are so chilling.

http://www.myspace.com/jodiarias/photos/albums/family/861123

 

[Linda7NJ]

Dont get me wrong, they are serious things, just not the oh your done for so long and good luck. Like I said, it's very complicated, not cut and dried. Anywhoo, nope no hell but that which we put ourselves through.

I'm one of those people that like to weigh my options. I recall driving in the pocono mountains and seeing signs that would state if you drove 20 miles over the speed limit the fine was $50.... 20 to 30 miles over $100....and so on. I chose to drive over the limit. I was willing to pay the $100 bucks if caught.

I would be weighing my options....middle circle and I can have premarital sex? Sign me up! Lol

 

[alwaysonmymind]

Sorry, but I disagree. I think the religious aspect is HUGE. In fact, if the defense does their job well, they will play up the religious aspect to the 10th power. I say this because:

1. Travis was a Mormon of somewhat high standing. It was so important to him that he sent California Mormons to Jodi's house to "work on her." He succeeded in converting her. That, the defense can say, shows he had enormous influence over Jodi. In fact, they could put forth that Travis kind of BRAINWASHED Jodi into his "cult."

2. The Mormon belief places men on a throne, and women as their foot-servants. Mormon women can't even get into heaven on their own virtues; they're accepted only if their husband "invites" them. And we've heard all those other cult-related stereotypes about how Mormon women are dominated by their men. If the defense works this angle, this can cause uncertainty about who Travis may have been in an intimate relationship.

3. To my knowledge, other religions today won't actually kick members out for fornicating. But the Mormons take fornication very seriously and will disgrace you with excommunication. The defense could argue, "What else, other than the obvious fornicating, was Travis sneaking and doing that was unsavory? Was he possibly violent with the lowly girl who 'soiled' him?"

IMO, if the defense paints Mormonism in this light they stand a very real chance of offending some members of the jury.

Bad move IMO.


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[kwmred]

no I agree with you... just saying I don't know how she did it unless she stood on him like you said

I'm sure there are other showers in the house.

 

[Linda7NJ]

IMO, if the defense paints Mormonism in this light they stand a very real chance of offending some members of the jury.

Bad move IMO.


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They have nothing else but the word of a murdering liar.

 

[Karmady]

So in reality, it's really not that big a deal. Speaking objectively, as an atheist....you can be forgiven, there isn't a hell, even the crappy circle of heaven is better than anyone can imagine....

Doesn't sound much different from other Christian religions to me. The no hell thing is a plus.

Perhaps it's just a tad more embarrassing because its confessed to a human being, like Catholics ...sorta.

I'm an athiest, too. But I do have many long term close friends who are lds. It's not a big deal in the sense that you're damned to hell for eternity. But it is a big deal within the community and it is not just passed off as a normal human frailty. It is extremely stigmatic -- like in the sense of an extra-marital teen pg in the 1940's or 50's stigmatic, or worse. The philosophy of the church is to hate the sin, but not the sinner so no, there's no shunning from the church, per se. But your workin' your butt pretty danged hard to get back in good graces. I'm pretty sure my lds friends are close enough with me to candidly share their pov on the subject, so I'm going to ask them and share it here if it's okay with them. I'm pretty sure they won't mind since some of them are particularly feisty girlies Keep in mind, that we're talking about a group of people who aren't supposed to drink soda or coffee and DON'T for the most part, because it's not accepted in their faith.

 

[Curious Me]

Good luck to the defense because Travis and his Church didn't brainwash her to kill. She didn't exhibit being under his control, but rather obsessed with her own agenda. I think she was furious that he would take a trip with some other woman. She believed Travis belonged to her.

 

[Sulamith]

Thank you and my apologies for the "shunning" comment. An earlier post mentioned "disfellowshiping" and "excommunication" and I translated that to shunning. Again apologies, but that was my understanding thanks for helping us out.

There is not official doctrine for shunning and it is certainly not encouraged but sometimes families take it upon themselves to disassociate from the person/family that has left the Mormon church, by resignation or excommunication. I have seen it happen in my husband's family.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

They have nothing else but the word of a murdering liar.

And therein lies the rub.




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[Karmady]

IMO, if the defense paints Mormonism in this light they stand a very real chance of offending some members of the jury.

Bad move IMO.


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Did you (anyone) see the voir dire? I'm assuming they know by now who's on the jury and who might be offended or not, but I didn't see it myself.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Good luck to the defense because Travis and his Church didn't brainwash her to kill. She didn't exhibit being under his control, but rather obsessed with her own agenda. I think she was furious that he would take a trip with some other woman. She believed Travis belonged to her.

IMO She really wanted to go to Cancun. Felt she deserved it. If she couldn't go, no way was he gonna go. She earned that trip!

She was concerned about when that lousy $100 check she wrote out to him would be cashed. That tells me she was broke.

 

[Knox]

There's a 48 hrs. Trailer video, but not the full episode. I looked hard last week.

A transcript can be found here - http:///transcripts-jodi-arias-is-innocent-cnn-cbs/cbs-48-hours-picture-perfect-jodi-arias-innocent/

Take it for what it's worth, considering the page it's on.

 

[LaneGirl]

IMO, if the defense paints Mormonism in this light they stand a very real chance of offending some members of the jury.

Bad move IMO.


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Religion is deeply personal for many people and it does run the risk of offending one or more of the jurors. It already has as I am reading on various boards.