John and the Basement Window

[DeeDee249]

He says he does not know if he brought it to any one's attention. SO WHY WAS HE NOT PRESSED ABOUT THIS? I can't take much more.:behindbar

There was SO much the Rs were not "pressed" on, let's face it. Add this to JR's statement "there were a lot of people here at 3 in the morning", his comment to his son JAR and daughter Melinda "JBR was found at 11 am".
PR's comment "I hear John screaming from the basement". (when he told LE he had not gone to the basement until he went with FW that morning.)
The list goes on and on.

 

[BOESP]

There was SO much the Rs were not "pressed" on, let's face it. Add this to JR's statement "there were a lot of people here at 3 in the morning", his comment to his son JAR and daughter Melinda "JBR was found at 11 am".
PR's comment "I hear John screaming from the basement". (when he told LE he had not gone to the basement until he went with FW that morning.)
The list goes on and on.

I don't recall reading about John screaming when he brought JonBenet upstairs on the 26th after finding her in the wine cellar. Since flashbacks are re-plays of actual events, when Patsy said she had "flashbacks" of John coming up from the basement screaming, it sounds like he went to the basement, saw a dead JonBenet, then he returned upstairs screaming. That's the only thing that makes sense if Patsy's testimony is factual.

 

[DeeDee249]

I don't recall reading about John screaming when he brought JonBenet upstairs on the 26th after finding her in the wine cellar. Since flashbacks are re-plays of actual events, when Patsy said she had "flashbacks" of John coming up from the basement screaming, it sounds like he went to the basement, saw a dead JonBenet, then he returned upstairs screaming. That's the only thing that makes sense if Patsy's testimony is factual.

Actually, what PR was referring to was NOT when JR brought JBR up from the basement, but her comments to LE about what took place after she "found" the ransom note. She said that she screamed for JR (when she read the note) and heard him screaming from the basement. Why he would be in the basement at that time is suspicious, and he himself never admits to LE that he was in the basement. He claims to have come racing from his BEDROOM when PR yells for him after she finds the note.
I think they were BOTH screaming from the horror of what had occurred and the horror of now having to cover up their daughter's death. JR was in the basement completing the staging...and I wouldn't be surprised if he screamed. All this screaming....and BR never heard a thing???

 

[JMO8778]

It was FW who supposedly points out the broken window to JR when they were in the basement, just before the body was "found". JR tells him at that time that HE broke the window months before.
Later, when he was asked about the broken window by LE, he repeats what he told FW that morning- that he had broken it that summer when he was locked out of the house and went in through the window.
If JR truly intended to use that broken window as an intruder's point of entry, he would never have admitted that he broke it, even if he did. He also said that he thought PR would have gotten it taken care of by now, and I know I saw where they supposedly asked the housekeeper LHP to have her husband fix the window, but that it hadn't been done. That was obviously something that LHP could corroberate if she was asked.
The only think I can think of is that it WAS the truth- or that JR knew there would be no evidence of any prints except his own. But that's not a great fit either.
So let's say it was the truth- JR broke it. And he forgot about it. Then when in the basement with FW- a really stressful situation with FW right there, LE upstairs, his dead daughter 10 feet away in the wineceller and Pandora's box about to open, FW points out the broken window and without thinking, JR tells him the TRUTH. (I know, one of few). Of course that would be a perfect "intruder" point of entry, but he's already told the truth, and as his prints would likely be found there, he simply lets it go and doesn't mention it.

In DOI,JR says 'sometime that morning' (vague),that he remembered the window he had to break when he got locked out.He says he went to check it then.
Later (same book) he says he realizes he doesn't know when 'tomorrow' is,in the note.He says 10am comes and goes..he tries to make it sound like he waited for the phone call,then went to the basement to check the window,yet in the interview,he says it was 'sometime before 10 am' when he went down there.
When he goes down w/ FW,he says he pointed the window out to him himself.(Then he moved on to the WC and 'found' JB...)

 

[BOESP]

Actually, what PR was referring to was NOT when JR brought JBR up from the basement, but her comments to LE about what took place after she "found" the ransom note. She said that she screamed for JR (when she read the note) and heard him screaming from the basement. Why he would be in the basement at that time is suspicious, and he himself never admits to LE that he was in the basement. He claims to have come racing from his BEDROOM when PR yells for him after she finds the note.
I think they were BOTH screaming from the horror of what had occurred and the horror of now having to cover up their daughter's death. JR was in the basement completing the staging...and I wouldn't be surprised if he screamed. All this screaming....and BR never heard a thing???

Thanks DeeDee. I misread the original post. I agree with you but this is one of the statements on which I might give Patsy a pass. Since she said she had a flashback, she had to have been reliving something that actually happened although possibly she could have combined two or three events in her mind. I don't recall reading anything about John screaming as he came up the basement stairs so assume if this happened, it was something Patsy inadvertently revealed.

Regardless, if they were doing all that screaming (and I believe they were since Patsy said they were doing so at a time before the cops arrived), then Burke heard them. I've always wondered why he felt he had to pretend to be asleep in the bed. Maybe all that screaming scared him????

 

[JMO8778]

Actually, what PR was referring to was NOT when JR brought JBR up from the basement, but her comments to LE about what took place after she "found" the ransom note. She said that she screamed for JR (when she read the note) and heard him screaming from the basement. Why he would be in the basement at that time is suspicious, and he himself never admits to LE that he was in the basement. He claims to have come racing from his BEDROOM when PR yells for him after she finds the note.
I think they were BOTH screaming from the horror of what had occurred and the horror of now having to cover up their daughter's death. JR was in the basement completing the staging...and I wouldn't be surprised if he screamed. All this screaming....and BR never heard a thing???

Yes, really,it's ridiculous.I think that's one of the reasons they wanted BR OUT of the house that morning...in case he'd overheard something !

 

[jeena]

Thanks DeeDee. I misread the original post. I agree with you but this is one of the statements on which I might give Patsy a pass. Since she said she had a flashback, she had to have been reliving something that actually happened although possibly she could have combined two or three events in her mind. I don't recall reading anything about John screaming as he came up the basement stairs so assume if this happened, it was something Patsy inadvertently revealed.

Regardless, if they were doing all that screaming (and I believe they were since Patsy said they were doing so at a time before the cops arrived), then Burke heard them. I've always wondered why he felt he had to pretend to be asleep in the bed. Maybe all that screaming scared him????

Didn't a neighbor hear a scream and scratching sounds coming from the basement at about 12:00 a.m. on 12/26, but the Ramsey's claim they didn't hear anything upstairs? Did the neighbors report hearing screaming later on before the police arrived? The screaming at 12:00 a.m. could have been JBR , PR, or JR. Didn't Burke allegedly say on the 911 tape, "what did you find, what can I do" or something to that effect. If that's true maybe he is innocent, even though it proves PR lied about him not being out of bed, so he wouldn't have been screaming at 12:00 a.m.

If there was regular abuse of this child, I wonder where it occurred, in her bedroom on the same floor as Burke?

Was she regularly taken to the basement or was this the first time and it went bad?

If PR was protecting someone other than JR/BR, maybe she didn't know what was going on, JBR's known attacker could have got her with a stun gun while sleeping, figuring JBR would never wake up during the assault.

If PR wrote the RN, what time did she learn what happened to JBR? Did she hear the scream at 12:00 a.m. like the neighbors did, wake up, and find JBR in the basement with a known attacker, perhaps someone who slept over Christmas night?

Did the early arrivers on 12/26, (ex. Fleet White) drive the attacker home to cover it up? Something happened for Fleet and JR to have a falling out, I think I remember JR not eliminating him as a suspect, if that's true.

Note: I ended up on this thread somehow while trying to post on the other one, sorry if some of my questions are off topic of John and the Basement.

 

[Solace]

Didn't a neighbor hear a scream and scratching sounds coming from the basement at about 12:00 a.m. on 12/26, but the Ramsey's claim they didn't hear anything upstairs? Did the neighbors report hearing screaming later on before the police arrived? The screaming at 12:00 a.m. could have been JBR , PR, or JR. Didn't Burke allegedly say on the 911 tape, "what did you find, what can I do" or something to that effect. If that's true maybe he is innocent, even though it proves PR lied about him not being out of bed, so he wouldn't have been screaming at 12:00 a.m. Good point about Burke. I don't think he had anything to do with this.

If there was regular abuse of this child, I wonder where it occurred, in her bedroom on the same floor as Burke? I don't believe there was regular sexual abuse; I think there was regular "corporal" punishment for wetting her underwear on a daily basis. Linda Hoffman said she heard crying from the bathroom on a daily basis. But that is just hearsay, but I tend to believe her.

Was she regularly taken to the basement or was this the first time and it went bad? I think it went bad and she was taken to the basement and I think this was the first and last time.

If PR was protecting someone other than JR/BR, maybe she didn't know what was going on, JBR's known attacker could have got her with a stun gun while sleeping, figuring JBR would never wake up during the assault. The Makers of the stun gun have said the marks to do not look like stun gun marks to them. Lou Smit who first presented the stun gun said on LKL it was the closest thing he could come to.

If PR wrote the RN, what time did she learn what happened to JBR? Probably right after she killed her. Did she hear the scream at 12:00 a.m. like the neighbors did, wake up, and find JBR in the basement with a known attacker, perhaps someone who slept over Christmas night? No because Patsy was more than likely the one who screamed after she realized that she broke JonBenet's skull in half.

Did the early arrivers on 12/26, (ex. Fleet White) drive the attacker home to cover it up? What??????????Something happened for Fleet and JR to have a falling out, I think I remember JR not eliminating him as a suspect, if that's true. JR fingered practically everyone of his friends if he could and he would have fingered Steve Thomas too, but he was a detective.

Note: I ended up on this thread somehow while trying to post on the other one, sorry if some of my questions are off topic of John and the Basement.

See above.

 

[jeena]

Solace - If there was regular abuse of this child, I wonder where it occurred, in her bedroom on the same floor as Burke? I don't believe there was regular sexual abuse; I think there was regular "corporal" punishment for wetting her underwear on a daily basis. Linda Hoffman said she heard crying from the bathroom on a daily basis. But that is just hearsay, but I tend to believe her.

Was she regularly taken to the basement or was this the first time and it went bad? I think it went bad and she was taken to the basement and I think this was the first and last time.

I gather you think PR injured JBR in the head upstairs, either accidentally or intentionally over the bed-wetting, then carried her downstairs to the basement and applied the garrote to cover-up.

I know there are issues with JBR's clothing, hairstyle, etc. changing from 12/25 to when she was found, but I don't have all the details straight in my head. You must think PR dressed JBR and combed her hair upstairs before she took her to the basement and wrapped her in the white blanket.

Interesting, but why would she argue with her daughter on Christmas night of all nights when people are usually happy? They were all looking forward to the trip to Michigan also. Did she have any drinks at Fleet White's house? Posters have commented on what a strong woman she was, so why would bed-wetting freak her out? Could cancer drugs make her moody?




If PR wrote the RN, what time did she learn what happened to JBR? Probably right after she killed her. Did she hear the scream at 12:00 a.m. like the neighbors did, wake up, and find JBR in the basement with a known attacker, perhaps someone who slept over Christmas night? No because Patsy was more than likely the one who screamed after she realized that she broke JonBenet's skull in half.

If PR is the one who screamed at 12:00 a.m. upstairs after JBR was hit over the head, wouldn't Burke have woken up?
Yet Burke says on the 911 tape "what did you find?" so he didn't hear the scream. PR wouldn't have screamed in the basement according to your scenario because JBR would be already unconscious after being carried down from upstairs, right?




Did the early arrivers on 12/26, (ex. Fleet White) drive the attacker home to cover it up? What??????????Something happened for Fleet and JR to have a falling out, I think I remember JR not eliminating him as a suspect, if that's true. JR fingered practically everyone of his friends if he could and he would have fingered Steve Thomas too, but he was a detective.

I was thinking if the attacker was known to the Ramsey's and slept over and was caught attacking JBR, the Ramsey's could have asked one of the early arrivers to get the guilty party out of house after the cover-up and before the cops arrived, sounds far-fetched though.....

 

[Littledeer]

Could someone tell me in which book or provide a link where it has been said:

"She said that she screamed for JR (when she read the note) and heard him screaming from the basement."

As posted by JMO8778 in post #26.

Thanks.

 

[DeeDee249]

Didn't a neighbor hear a scream and scratching sounds coming from the basement at about 12:00 a.m. on 12/26, but the Ramsey's claim they didn't hear anything upstairs? Did the neighbors report hearing screaming later on before the police arrived? The screaming at 12:00 a.m. could have been JBR , PR, or JR. Didn't Burke allegedly say on the 911 tape, "what did you find, what can I do" or something to that effect. If that's true maybe he is innocent, even though it proves PR lied about him not being out of bed, so he wouldn't have been screaming at 12:00 a.m.

If there was regular abuse of this child, I wonder where it occurred, in her bedroom on the same floor as Burke?

Was she regularly taken to the basement or was this the first time and it went bad?

If PR was protecting someone other than JR/BR, maybe she didn't know what was going on, JBR's known attacker could have got her with a stun gun while sleeping, figuring JBR would never wake up during the assault.

If PR wrote the RN, what time did she learn what happened to JBR? Did she hear the scream at 12:00 a.m. like the neighbors did, wake up, and find JBR in the basement with a known attacker, perhaps someone who slept over Christmas night?

Did the early arrivers on 12/26, (ex. Fleet White) drive the attacker home to cover it up? Something happened for Fleet and JR to have a falling out, I think I remember JR not eliminating him as a suspect, if that's true.

Note: I ended up on this thread somehow while trying to post on the other one, sorry if some of my questions are off topic of John and the Basement.

PR would never have written that note to cover for ANYONE other than her husband, son or possibly father.

 

[DeeDee249]

Could someone tell me in which book or provide a link where it has been said:

"She said that she screamed for JR (when she read the note) and heard him screaming from the basement."

As posted by JMO8778 in post #26.

Thanks.

This can be found in PR's interviews on "acandyrose".

 

[JMO8778]

Could someone tell me in which book or provide a link where it has been said:

"She said that she screamed for JR (when she read the note) and heard him screaming from the basement."

As posted by JMO8778 in post #26.

Thanks.

I didn't post it,it was a quote,but I'm sure someone can help w/ the quote,it came from one of Patsy's interviews.

 

[Solace]

Could someone tell me in which book or provide a link where it has been said:

"She said that she screamed for JR (when she read the note) and heard him screaming from the basement."

As posted by JMO8778 in post #26.

Thanks.

Hi Little,

This is from the interviews and it can be found in the NE book on same. We had a long discussion about this and how Patsy said basically when she found the note, she screamed for JR and she heard him scream (like the same scream he used when he screamed from the basement). Now one could take that as John at some point during the night screamed for Patsy when he was in the basement. But what I think after reading it over again, is Patsy is saying or she can say she was saying, John screamed the same scream as WHEN HE BROUGHT JB UP FROM THE BASEMENT. I wish it were not that, but it is.

I would love for it to be a slip by her, but I think she is saying that the scream was as horrible as when he found her and came up from the basement.

 

[BellaRosa]

And you mentioned when you went down in the morning, the 26 and it was unlatched, did that strike you as odd or did you bring that to anybody’s attention?
JR: I, I don’t know. I mean when I was, I think, yeah, I think it probably struck me as a little odd, but it wasn’t, I mean sometimes that window would be open because the basement got hot, or one of those windows would be opened.

I find John's statement about the basement window sometimes being open because it gets hot down there, doesn't make sense. First of all, heat rises and secondly, that basement is underground, which would make it much cooler than the rest of the home. I know our basement is a haven on a hot, muggy summer day as it's quite a bit cooler down there. Even in the winter, with the furnace running, it's chilly.

 

[Ames]

I didn't post it,it was a quote,but I'm sure someone can help w/ the quote,it came from one of Patsy's interviews.

Here ya go..

11 PATSY RAMSEY: I am going this way

12 and I lean on and said John -- you know, the

13 landing is like here, is like this, then it

14 turns and like that. And I leaned over, I mean

15 my knees were like, you know, buckling. And oh,

16 God, and he came down and I said, "she's gone,

17 she's gone, there is a note, she's been

18 kidnapped."

19 TOM HANEY: So you're here at the

20 base of the stairs?

21 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.

22 TOM HANEY: You scream for John?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: (Nodding with no

24 audible response).

25 TOM HANEY: Do you remember exactly

0041

1 what words you used, was it more than just John

2 or--

3 PATSY RAMSEY: I remember my voice

4 was just cracking. I mean it was like "John",

5 like that. I mean like, I can't even, you know,

6 I hear my scream and I hear his scream when he

7 came up from the basement, I mean it was just a

8 horrible thing. You know, it was just --

 

[JMO8778]

Here ya go..

11 PATSY RAMSEY: I am going this way

12 and I lean on and said John -- you know, the

13 landing is like here, is like this, then it

14 turns and like that. And I leaned over, I mean

15 my knees were like, you know, buckling. And oh,

16 God, and he came down and I said, "she's gone,

17 she's gone, there is a note, she's been

18 kidnapped."

19 TOM HANEY: So you're here at the

20 base of the stairs?

21 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.

22 TOM HANEY: You scream for John?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: (Nodding with no

24 audible response).

25 TOM HANEY: Do you remember exactly

0041

1 what words you used, was it more than just John

2 or--

3 PATSY RAMSEY: I remember my voice

4 was just cracking. I mean it was like "John",

5 like that. I mean like, I can't even, you know,

6 I hear my scream and I hear his scream when he

7 came up from the basement, I mean it was just a

8 horrible thing. You know, it was just --

when she talks about it..(the same way she did when she said she had 'flashbacks of JB screaming'),it sounds like she's stepped outside of herself,as if she had no control over what she did...she was the 'outsider' looking in,watching events unfold bet. JB and herself.I really think she lost it that night.

 

[DeeDee249]

And as usual, LE gives her a pass and never says to her "So your husband was in the basement at the time you found the note? What was he doing there at that time? You had said the family was sleeping and you came down to make coffee and that's when you found the note. So, then, your husband was NOT in bed or in your bedroom as he said he was."

LIke so many of the R slip-ups, they just let it go...

 

[Squishified]

And you mentioned when you went down in the morning, the 26 and it was unlatched, did that strike you as odd or did you bring that to anybody’s attention?
JR: I, I don’t know. I mean when I was, I think, yeah, I think it probably struck me as a little odd, but it wasn’t, I mean sometimes that window would be open because the basement got hot, or one of those windows would be opened.

I find John's statement about the basement window sometimes being open because it gets hot down there, doesn't make sense. First of all, heat rises and secondly, that basement is underground, which would make it much cooler than the rest of the home. I know our basement is a haven on a hot, muggy summer day as it's quite a bit cooler down there. Even in the winter, with the furnace running, it's chilly.

Welcome to Websleuths, BellaRosa

 

[BellaRosa]

Welcome to Websleuths, BellaRosa

Thanks for the welcome, I'm happy to be here!