John Andrew Ramsey

[Agatha_C]

Ramseys....hahaha
Ya nuffy.

LOL! Whew! I have been called many things in my life but a nuffy is new...LOL!

 

[Agatha_C]

JAR might have been in the video, maybe that's why it was "missing". Also, it is odd that JR hired lawyers for JAR's MOTHER. Why would she need a lawyer? She was not a suspect. The only reason she'd need a lawyer is to be protected from answering questions about JAR's whereabouts Christmas day, and any photographic evidence refuting that claim.
There are SO many different R's who could have been involved in this- Patsy, JR, JAR, BR, even DP. That's why I can never narrow it down to the point where I am SURE who did this.
As far as there being uncertainty as to whether the scarf was JR's or another party guest- all they had to do was find the one that was JR's. If there WAS no other scarf- that one was JR's. Same stuff they tried to pull with the flashlight.
They had one that LOOKED like that one. They kept it in a drawer off the kitchen. That drawer was empty. NO flashlight in the drawer. Well, guess what? Then the one that LOOKS like yours IS yours, unless you can provide the one you claim is yours.

DeeDee, I have taken some time to ponder this post and I will have to respectfully disagree with one of the points you made (In bold above). I dont think thats the only reason she would need a lawyer. Its very possible that JR didnt want some of his secrets getting out. What if he had molested one of their own children, such as the daughter he seemed to have loved more than any of his other children. A lawyer and a nice keep your mouth shut check, may well have been more to JRs benefit. Who knows what the exwife could have said about her exhusband that cheated on her, like maybe he cheated with young women, why not, he married one (not that all men married to younger woman are molesters, but it has been a sign for some). Maybe he had shown a tendency for violence in that marriage.

I just cant honestly except that JAR would be the only reason for a lawyer. I think family secrets would be another good reason.

The flashlight I agree with, if it looks just like yours and was found in your house, then its yours.

 

[Agatha_C]

I wonder would SL have lied to protect JAR? Maybe, as we all know he's keeping some kind of secrets for the family, but I just dont see him out and out lying for JAR and in doing so implicating himself in the cover up as well as the obstruction charge he and his wife could receive. I dont think he knows details as much as he knows what isnt making sense and what little he might have heard e.g. John finding the body at 11 am. I think a lawyer was needed for that side of the family for the very same reason, what they suspected, what little they knew, and what they would learn in the days following. They needed a lawyer to keep them quiet and under control. Or thats my opinion..LOL.. Like buttholes we all have one..LOL...

 

[Agatha_C]

DeeDee, I have taken some time to ponder this post and I will have to respectfully disagree with one of the points you made (In bold above). I dont think thats the only reason she would need a lawyer. Its very possible that JR didnt want some of his secrets getting out. What if he had molested one of their own children, such as the daughter he seemed to have loved more than any of his other children. A lawyer and a nice keep your mouth shut check, may well have been more to JRs benefit. Who knows what the exwife could have said about her exhusband that cheated on her, like maybe he cheated with young women, why not, he married one (not that all men married to younger woman are molesters, but it has been a sign for some). Maybe he had shown a tendency for violence in that marriage.

I just cant honestly except that JAR would be the only reason for a lawyer. I think family secrets would be another good reason.

The flashlight I agree with, if it looks just like yours and was found in your house, then its yours.

I should also add to this, we dont know what things JRs older children might have told their mother about the goings on in JRs and PRs home for all those years. Did they see and hear the craziness? How did Lucinda really feel about PR and what really was the relationship between PR and her stepchildren? So many things they might have wanted to remain secret. I really think JR feared what would and could be said about he and the beauty queens.

 

[joeskidbeck]

While I agree with all the questions surrounding JR lawyering up his ex and children, I cannot understand why he didn't do the same for Patsy's family. This, for me anyway, is an indication that JR had no desire to do so, which makes me believe that one of them is quite possibly involved. If we truly believe that JonBenet was being molested prior to her death, then it stands to reason that it was someone in her family. It just makes sense that John would not have wanted to help that person whatsoever. In my theory of what happened that night, the only variable is the person Patsy caught molesting her daughter. Would JR have been willing to provide legal help for that person? Especially if that person was not a member of his family?

 

[madeleine]

While I agree with all the questions surrounding JR lawyering up his ex and children, I cannot understand why he didn't do the same for Patsy's family.

it's because he wanted to prevent HIS family from talking.must have been his folks that knew something?not about the murder but about him?

 

[madeleine]

why hire a lawyer for P.Paugh for ex.she obviosly knew nothing but they needed her to have a big mouth and go on national TV to talk about how innocent they are.

i was just laughing the other day when I read what she said ,that she fainted and fell on the floor when she heard the news,that every day she woke up asking God to tell her a reason why she would get out of bed.....gmab,another attention seeking drama queen.that's all.this wasn't about her.

 

[SunnieRN]

DeeDee, I have taken some time to ponder this post and I will have to respectfully disagree with one of the points you made (In bold above). I dont think thats the only reason she would need a lawyer. Its very possible that JR didnt want some of his secrets getting out. What if he had molested one of their own children, such as the daughter he seemed to have loved more than any of his other children. A lawyer and a nice keep your mouth shut check, may well have been more to JRs benefit. Who knows what the exwife could have said about her exhusband that cheated on her, like maybe he cheated with young women, why not, he married one (not that all men married to younger woman are molesters, but it has been a sign for some). Maybe he had shown a tendency for violence in that marriage.

I just cant honestly except that JAR would be the only reason for a lawyer. I think family secrets would be another good reason.

The flashlight I agree with, if it looks just like yours and was found in your house, then its yours.

I believe this also goes along with deflection AWAY from John. He set the stage very well. Telling LE that it seemed like the RN was written by a woman, that he found JonBenet at 11, that he saw her through a door/wall that was in his way, that he moved JAR's suitcase, that he wouldn't talk until the BPD officially and publicly cleared his older children.

Constant deflection. Constant attention to details that could be disproven OR were lies. Patsy mor followed along. She got angry when questioned, because I believe it was anger toward the lies she was telling. I believe this increased, when she realized she was being made the scapegoat. That EVERYONE suspected HER guilt, but thought 'poor John'. IMOO, and from observations and transcripts.

it's because he wanted to prevent HIS family from talking.must have been his folks that knew something?not about the murder but about him?

There is a reason he mourned Beth SO differently than JonBenet. I don't believe it had ANYTHING to do with the fact that he knew Beth longer.

 

[SunnieRN]

Just thought I had better add that I have no idea why there was such a pronounced and markedly difference in his mourning of his two daughters. I do question the reason behind it, and can only surmise that if another of his children were behind JonBenets death, I believe he would have gone into survival mode for his other offspring.

 

[madeleine]

I believe this also goes along with deflection AWAY from John. He set the stage very well. Telling LE that it seemed like the RN was written by a woman, that he found JonBenet at 11, that he saw her through a door/wall that was in his way, that he moved JAR's suitcase, that he wouldn't talk until the BPD officially and publicly cleared his older children.

Constant deflection. Constant attention to details that could be disproven OR were lies. Patsy mor followed along. She got angry when questioned, because I believe it was anger toward the lies she was telling. I believe this increased, when she realized she was being made the scapegoat. That EVERYONE suspected HER guilt, but thought 'poor John'. IMOO, and from observations and transcripts.

I always said I feel PR was bored even annoyed by what she had to do,go on tv,answer LE questions,but she did it because she HAD to.she had to play along,maybe she did even regret the fact that she helped in the cover-up (writing the RN)(IF she did)?

I think Kane felt the same way I do

Reflecting now on his interviews with the Ramseys, Kane said, "I never felt like I was getting a spontaneous response

"John Ramsey always left me with the impression that he was a very smart man, and he is very careful at answering questions," Kane said. "Whereas, Patsy struck me as somebody that just had an answer in advance of the question, and just kind of resorted to an 'I don't know' if she didn't have an answer in advance."



it was JR who had to be careful re his answers,she just followed the script?

 

[SunnieRN]

The only thing keeping me from thinking JAR was involved, is the roll of film taken from the Rs camera, by LE. In the photo interview, both JR and PR were shown pictures that LE had developed from the film taken from JR camera. Film from Christmas.

Patsy Ramsey: "...This (scarf) just looks strange to me...."?

I agree that it is unlikely JAR was there, due to logistics alone, however it is not impossible. I still feel we need to start at the beginning. We KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt that John, Patsy and BURKE, were there for SURE.

To me, John's actions of disappearing, not talking or interacting with Patsy, or his friends, should also tell us something. Something important! The fact that the one item John placed in the coffin with JonBenet, for her eternal rest was a scarf. There was a scarf out that morning. The ligature mark on JonBenets throat closely resembled a mark made by a SOFT object. This should also tell us something!

The fact that the R's lied about Burke being awake that morning. The fact that Burke had NO fear when leaving his parents, house, the police officers, despite the fact that his sister had been 'kidnapped'. There are a LOT more somethings. Too many for one post.
The point I hope I am making, is that the actions shown that morning were actions of either guilt, or protection. Who would John protect?

Burke is the most logical answer. Burke had already hit JonBenet with a golf club, he was always the one hiding behind JonBenets shadow, not by choice. His Dad was too busy for him and his Mom was too sick, then too busy with JonBenet to give a hoot, at least in Burkes mind. He could swing a bat, HARD, one happened to be found outside, out of place. He drank tea that night as he and JonBenet ate pineapple, and he got royally fizzed off about something!

Maybe little sister didn't want to play games that night? Maybe she knocked down the model Dad helped Burke build. Maybe he just didn't want to be bothered in his room, after everyone went upstairs to bed. I think it. Would have been very possible that he was playing Ninetendo that night.

Did Burke have the motive? Cain did kill able way back when. Opportunity, well, they did sleep on a floor apart from their parents. Time, how much time does it take to hit someone on the head? Not too much! I think he truly looks like the most likely suspect. But, and this is a big but, I am not sure he is the one who was molesting her up to this point. The molester, however, would have seen an opportunity to cover up their previous 'indiscretions'.

 

[Agatha_C]

Sunnie,


BDI, is one, of the two scenarios rolling around in my head. Of the two, its the only one that makes the most sense out of the complicity, of so many family members and non. I dont see anyone of the players covering for anyone other than BR. Unless, it was designed to look like BDI, to garner that complicity that saved their arses. To believe the last, one would have to think there was either a sick genius involved or it was premeditated.

It is one of my opinions that BR was a quietly simmering pot that boiled over Christmas day. I feel that there were problems in that family and one of those signs, was the escalating violent acting out of BR. He liked to hit her! In the head! He liked to threaten her with harm and chase her until she would hide. Hey, even negative attention, is attention when you're starved for it. Im not saying she was just sitting there and he would strike. She was after all a 6 y/o little sister and could probably push his buttons. I do however feel, that he would respond violently and with rage

The Rs called JBR, a spark plug and a handful. Were they really saying, she was an instigator and pushed her brother to do bad things. Too hurt her. Too kill her. Just look at the things, she has made all of of us do!

I should really write my BDI theory in the Theories thread. So I'll leave this post where it is and move to that thread.


I agree Sunnie, Im not sure he was the one molesting her, that IMHO, was either JAR or JR.

Im off too the theories thread.....

 

[SunnieRN]

Agatha, thank you for making sense out of mybenadryl head posting. I will go read your theory in it's entirety in a moment.

I agree, Burke was violent prior. John, more than Patsy, seemed to often talk badly about JonBenet. I think Johndidn't know how to handle an independently acting child.

I am sure, due to lifestyle and opportunities, that JonBenet was beyond her years in some ways. It sounds like her assertion of self, wanting to pick her own clothes, dress herself, etc, ticked John off, more than Patsy. You notice, Patsy often tries to soften Johns comments, saying that JonBenet was full of energy, vs, she was a spark plug, a live wire.

I think you hit the nail on the head with this one Angela. John blamed JonBenet, for her own death. Sick and disgusting!!

I also think that if Burke molested JB, it was a learned behavior. Something that either he observed, or JB told him about.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Is it common for children who are being molested to tell their siblings? Remember when Burke was being interviewed by LE, he said that he had secrets and that it wouldn't be a secret if he told anyone them? Could he be talking about a secret JonBenet told him?

 

[Agatha_C]

This is on topic, so please bare with me..

In the movie "Sleepers" (based on true facts) two men, that as boys had gone to a corectional facility and were molested by some of the guards. Years later the boys now men run into one of the guards (Kevin Bacon) and they shoot him dead (if you saw the movie, you wouldnt have really blamed them. To make a long story short. A local priest (Robert De Niro ) who had befriended the boys chose to lie for the now murders and claimed they had been with him at a Celtics game at the time of the murder (months earlier) to back up his claim he provided all three ticket stubs. The guys had not been with him, it had been months since the game and yet the priest was able to provide the stubs.

Wasnt it months later that JAR turned over his movie stub? How did this young man still have that stub? Could he have gotten it like the priest, through conspiracy?

 

[Agatha_C]

This is on topic, so please bare with me..

In the movie "Sleepers" (based on true facts) two men, that as boys had gone to a corectional facility and were molested by some of the guards. Years later the boys now men run into one of the guards (Kevin Bacon) and they shoot him dead (if you saw the movie, you wouldnt have really blamed them. To make a long story short. A local priest (Robert De Niro ) who had befriended the boys chose to lie for the now murders and claimed they had been with him at a Celtics game at the time of the murder (months earlier) to back up his claim he provided all three ticket stubs. The guys had not been with him, it had been months since the game and yet the priest was able to provide the stubs.

Wasnt it months later that JAR turned over his movie stub? How did this young man still have that stub? Could he have gotten it like the priest, through conspiracy?

The movie came out October 18, 1996....

 

[DeeDee249]

The movie came out October 18, 1996....

Exactly. So why would you still have it? Unless you are a teenage girl who scrapbooks and the movie had some sentimental significance, why would anyone keep a movie ticket stub? Odd "coincidence" for it to turn up in a pocket.

 

[madeleine]

Exactly. So why would you still have it? Unless you are a teenage girl who scrapbooks and the movie had some sentimental significance, why would anyone keep a movie ticket stub? Odd "coincidence" for it to turn up in a pocket.

he was placed in Boulder(evening of the murder IIRC) by a witness ,right?i forgot now who the witness was,a neighbor?did he change his statement or something and why did LE forget about it

 

[Agatha_C]

he was placed in Boulder(evening of the murder IIRC) by a witness ,right?i forgot now who the witness was,a neighbor?did he change his statement or something and why did LE forget about it

Maddy,

Mr Barnhill, said that he saw JAR coming up the hill behind the Rs house on Christmas afternoon and then he said he could have been mistaken. Which one can read as "I was threatened to keep my mouth shut or else." Because it ruined his credibility as it was designed to do.

 

[Agatha_C]

Exactly. So why would you still have it? Unless you are a teenage girl who scrapbooks and the movie had some sentimental significance, why would anyone keep a movie ticket stub? Odd "coincidence" for it to turn up in a pocket.

Yeah DeeDee, thanks to YOU (LOL) Im finding it hard to ignore some things... Either JAR was there, was involved, did it, or it helped the Rs to cast doubt and suspicion, like seeds in the wind.

I dont buy for one minute that a college age kid/male would have a ticket stub just laying around for months and just when its needed, he finds it. I didnt fall off the turnip truck, I drove it here...

Serious question DeeDee>>> JAR has a little girl, does knowing that give you the heebie jeebies? It does me, in fact it makes me sick with concern when I dwell on it....