John Ramsey Fabricated Open Basement Window "Evidence"

[andreww]

I agree with this in principle, but for different reasoning.

Quite honestly, I simply believe that JR panicked when police asked him to grab a writing sample. Wasn't he asked to do so right by where the pads where kept? If he would have not grabbed those pads, it would have looked incredibly suspicious. He must have felt that police had already seen the pads sitting there, and didn't want to appear any more suspicious by not handing them over.

I completely disagree that JR didn't know anything beforehand. I will point to the fibers of his shirt that were found once more. Not to mention his suspicious behavior.

If he really didn't know anything until he found JBR, what would keep him from simply turning over PR -- if not that very day, eventually? "Keeping the family intact" doesn't really work as an excuse here, considering he could have kept BR. Are you supposing his love was so strong for PR that he wouldn't flip on her even after she killed one of his own children?

I believe that morning John was figuring things out. I think he was suspicious of the ransom note, but he was also likely aware of Burkes psychological problems. I think once he found the body that John became the world's first BDI, so no he couldn't just turn in Patsy.

 

[Userid]

I believe that morning John was figuring things out. I think he was suspicious of the ransom note, but he was also likely aware of Burkes psychological problems. I think once he found the body that John became the world's first BDI, so no he couldn't just turn in Patsy.

So PR kept the fact that one of their children killed the other from him, why exactly?

 

[andreww]

So PR kept the fact that one of their children killed the other from him, why exactly?

Family shame? Patsy does weird things. Like having someone cut her neighbors lawn be she was having a party. It's all about appearances for Patsy.


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[Userid]

^ Eh, I don't buy that respectfully. There's no logical reason why she would keep that from JR.

 

[icedtea4me]

Or Patsy wrote the note doing her best to make it look like someone kidnapped JB because of John's business.*snip*

However, it wasn't John's business. It was his bussiness.

"We don(?)[scribbled out] respect your bussiness but not the c*untry that it serves."

http://www.acandyrose.com/12251996ransompage1.gif

buss = kiss

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/buss?s=t

 

[Cottonstar]

How does that prove anything? If John only figured out hat happened at 10:00 that morning, he has done everything in his power since to protect her. If anything, the fact that he handed over Patsy's pad shows that he likely had no clue that the note was written on it.

He handed over pad prior to 10am


cottonstar

 

[Cottonstar]

Or Patsy wrote the note doing her best to make it look like someone kidnapped JB because of John's business.



That is not proof, that is your opinion.



A recording where most people can't even agree on what was said? And yet you can read his inflection and tone? Good for you.



There isn't plenty more. In fact there is plenty to suggest that John had no idea what was happening. Arndt even talked about how John's attitude had changed after he reappeared.

There is plenty of behavioral evidence not just my opinion. John not telling Fleet White about the ransom note at all that morning proves he was in on it from the get go.


cottonstar

 

[Cottonstar]

I agree with this in principle, but for different reasoning.

Quite honestly, I simply believe that JR panicked when police asked him to grab a writing sample. Wasn't he asked to do so right by where the pads where kept? If he would have not grabbed those pads, it would have looked incredibly suspicious. He must have felt that police had already seen the pads sitting there, and didn't want to appear any more suspicious by not handing them over.

I completely disagree that JR didn't know anything beforehand. I will point to the fibers of his shirt that were found once more. Not to mention his suspicious behavior.

If he really didn't know anything until he found JBR, what would keep him from simply turning over PR -- if not that very day, eventually? "Keeping the family intact" doesn't really work as an excuse here, considering he could have kept BR. Are you supposing his love was so strong for PR that he wouldn't flip on her even after she killed one of his own children?

Have you seen photo 17.7?


cottonstar

 

[kanzz]

I agree, and I apologize. JR handing over Patsy's pad on purpose to LE proves he was in on it from the get-go.


cottonstar

bbm

This proves nothing.

By the way - "On purpose"? The officer asked JR for samples of his handwriting and PR's handwriting. He handed over both. It isn't as though it was his idea.

 

[kanzz]

He handed over pad prior to 10am


cottonstar

Source, please?


per PMPT, it was after 10 a.m.:

 

[kanzz]

There is plenty of behavioral evidence not just my opinion. John not telling Fleet White about the ransom note at all that morning proves he was in on it from the get go.


cottonstar

bbm

I don't remember seeing this before. Where did you read it? Source please.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Arndt took a copy of the RN with her when she went to the house. She arrived at approx 0810. All the R friends saw the note and commented on it.
FW also knew about the arrangements that being were made early that morning to have money transferred from JR's Atlanta account to Boulder and for Fernie to go to the bank to pick up money.

 

[Cottonstar]

Source, please?


per PMPT, it was after 10 a.m.:

"Det. Robert Whitson arrived at the Ramsey residence at approximately 9: 30 a.m. to inform John that the FBI had been notified and were assisting in the investigation. Whitson briefly talked to John about security for the home, and John again stated that he had personally locked up the house on the night of December 25, and that he rechecked that morning and found everything was still locked. Whitson and Patterson then asked John for samples of his handwriting. When John was asked for samples of handwriting as early as 09: 30 I think the penny dropped for him that the ruse had not worked. As such the 10: 00 deadline for the kidnapping call wasn’t foremost in John’s mind, lawyering up was perhaps the new priority." from "The Day After Christmas (Anno Xmas Book 3)" by Nick van der Leek, Lisa Wilson

Bonita papers have it before 10am as well.


cottonstar

 

[andreww]

However, it wasn't John's business. It was his bussiness.

"We don(?)[scribbled out] respect your bussiness but not the c*untry that it serves."

http://www.acandyrose.com/12251996ransompage1.gif

buss = kiss

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/buss?s=t

Seriously?


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[andreww]

He handed over pad prior to 10am


cottonstar

Ergo my point. John behaved as you would expect prior to 10:00


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[andreww]

There is plenty of behavioral evidence not just my opinion. John not telling Fleet White about the ransom note at all that morning proves he was in on it from the get go.


cottonstar

Not sure where this info came from but I suspect it's false.


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[Cottonstar]

bbm

I don't remember seeing this before. Where did you read it? Source please.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Arndt took a copy of the RN with her when she went to the house. She arrived at approx 0810. All the R friends saw the note and commented on it.
FW also knew about the arrangements that being were made early that morning to have money transferred from JR's Atlanta account to Boulder and for Fernie to go to the bank to pick up money.

It was mentioned by Jim Clemente and Laura Richards on Real Crime Profile on Episode 38 which posted Sep 28 2016. @ 42:15 he mentions this fact.

It is also referenced in the trilogy of books, The Day after Christmas by Investigative journalists' Nick Van der Leek and Lisa Wilson.



cottonstar

 

[Cottonstar]

bbm

This proves nothing.

By the way - "On purpose"? The officer asked JR for samples of his handwriting and PR's handwriting. He handed over both. It isn't as though it was his idea.

Photo 17.7


cottonstar

 

[Cottonstar]

What do you base that on? What piece of evidence (prior to 10:00 AM) definitively proves John was involved?

Here's another:
John not telling anyone about the broken window on the 26th.


cottonstar

 

[Cottonstar]

What do you base that on? What piece of evidence (prior to 10:00 AM) definitively proves John was involved?

John calling his pilot and Westmoreland .

John speaking to his HR manager during the kidnapping faze.


cottonstar

 

[Cottonstar]

Or Patsy wrote the note doing her best to make it look like someone kidnapped JB because of John's business.



That is not proof, that is your opinion.



A recording where most people can't even agree on what was said? And yet you can read his inflection and tone? Good for you.



There isn't plenty more. In fact there is plenty to suggest that John had no idea what was happening. Arndt even talked about how John's attitude had changed after he reappeared.

John not talking to Burke, not waking him up and distancing him from police.

Any parent who came upon a ransom note and thought their daughter was kidnapped would rush up to the other siblings rooms, wake them up and grill them.


cottonstar