John's Blue Bathrobe....

[Ames]

I think something was in there too,but I also wonder if she could have been hit with one of the clubs..I wonder if anyone ever tried to match up the square part of the fracture to those type of golf clubs.

I believe that she was hit twice...once when she was pushed against the tub or sink...and then another time, and it could have been with the golf clubs. That's a good question, I wonder if anyone ever tried to match up the square part of the fracture to those golf clubs. Since the golf clubs were taken from the house....I would assume that nobody ever had a chance to test them.

 

[trixie]

she asked for them when in GA ,they were left in CO.,probably at the Fernie's house.

Oh yeah that's right. It didn't occur to me that she wouldn't take what few clothes she had with her to Goergia. If she didn't even think enough of them to keep them with her why do you think they would suddenly become so important re: trace evidence? Maybe she was too medicated to be thinking about that when she left for Georgia?

 

[JMO8778]

Oh yeah that's right. It didn't occur to me that she wouldn't take what few clothes she had with her to Goergia. If she didn't even think enough of them to keep them with her why do you think they would suddenly become so important re: trace evidence? Maybe she was too medicated to be thinking about that when she left for Georgia?

that's my guess,I think the fiber evidence connection didn't hit her until it was brought up by attorneys.
that places Patsy at the crime scene,IMO..at least at some point.As well as JR too,of course.

 

[DeeDee249]

LE took a VERY long time to ask for the R's clothing from that night. I don't know if the reason was a Boulder-esque relaxed approach to crimesolving, or if the DA jerked them around. Remember Hunter's office refusing to allow phone records to be seized? They wanted to ASK the R's for them!

By the time the Rs were in Atlanta (it wasn't too long after the murder. JBR was buried there within a week of her death)- they and their lawyers knew they had to get back all the clothing from Christmas Day and the 26th. It is ridiculous for anyone to believe PR couldn't get another pair of black velvet pants. Why would ANY mother of a murdered child want to wear the same clothes she was wearing when she threw herself on the corpse of her 6-year old daughter? We of course, know the reason for it. I doubt she ever did wear them again. They just needed to have them cleaned/washed before LE got them. And when the clothes finally were requested and sent over a year later!!!! they looked like new, unlaundered clothes and LE wasn't sure if they WERE in fact the same clothes from that day. After all, how hard is it to find a red sweater and black velvet pants?

 

[JMO8778]

Right on Dee...that would bring back extremely bad memories when wearing the same clothes.Nobody could live w that.And I think I recall she was evasive about the clothes sent back...saying that might be them...again this places her at the crime scene,at the least.

 

[Ames]

Right on Dee...that would bring back extremely bad memories when wearing the same clothes.Nobody could live w that.And I think I recall she was evasive about the clothes sent back...saying that might be them...again this places her at the crime scene,at the least.

MIGHT be them? Like she wouldn't remember the clothes that she wore to the White's Christmas party, and supposedly changed BACK into...to wear on her trip...and had on when her daughter's dead body was found, and was wearing when she flung herself on her daughter's dead body.

 

[DeeDee249]

It always infuriated me whenever I read any of the R interviews with LE. "I don't remember" this and "I really just can't recall" that. Jeeze- I remember where I was and exactly what I was doing AND wearing when John Kennedy was shot! And that was, what, over 40 years ago?

The Rs (especially PR) remember EVERYTHING about that night!

 

[Ames]

It always infuriated me whenever I read any of the R interviews with LE. "I don't remember" this and "I really just can't recall" that. Jeeze- I remember where I was and exactly what I was doing AND wearing when John Kennedy was shot! And that was, what, over 40 years ago?

The Rs (especially PR) remember EVERYTHING about that night!

Pretty sad when she can remember nonimportant stuff...but she can't even remember the last time her daughter had a bath.

 

[JMO8778]

Pretty sad when she can remember nonimportant stuff...but she can't even remember the last time her daughter had a bath.

right..the last time she bathed her...that would be a precious memory,indeed.
not "uh....I DONT KNOW..........."

 

[JMO8778]

MIGHT be them? Like she wouldn't remember the clothes that she wore to the White's Christmas party, and supposedly changed BACK into...to wear on her trip...and had on when her daughter's dead body was found, and was wearing when she flung herself on her daughter's dead body.

ST says she sent 2 or 3 shirts,I don't recall from his book, but...she sure did cover herself well,didn't she? Sounds like a lawyer tactic..send several,in case the fibers closely match one,then you can say you wore another (or aren't sure which one you wore).

 

[Ames]

ST says she sent 2 or 3 shirts,I don't recall from his book, but...she sure did cover herself well,didn't she? Sounds like a lawyer tactic..send several,in case the fibers closely match one,then you can say you wore another (or aren't sure which one you wore).[/quote]

Oh yes...I am sure that she was well advised beforehand, as to what to send. Sounds just like lawyer advice to me too....

 

[DeeDee249]

They've been "well-advised" since the early-morning of December 26th, when I'd bet my life that JR placed his first call to his lawyer/friend. The DA's refusal to supoena phone records for that day speaks volumes about the pressuer brought to bear on them also.

 

[Ames]

They've been "well-advised" since the early-morning of December 26th, when I'd bet my life that JR placed his first call to his lawyer/friend. The DA's refusal to supoena phone records for that day speaks volumes about the pressuer brought to bear on them also.

I think that they had been "well advised"...since the early morning of Dec. 26th, too. Patsy in her interview talks about John going and checking on Burke...and then says that he was "at the phone"....in her next breath.

 

[Dru]

could be...but a couple of things deter me from that...one is that Patsy set the note so she would be walking down the stairs and appear to 'find' it on the morning of the 26th....so picture Patsy coming down the stairs...she 'finds' the note,as she wants us to believe...and then she reads the part.."WE WILL CALL YOU TOMORROW"...ok,tomorrow to her,at that moment...is the 27th.I think they did it that way in order to give themselves a full day to carry out a plan,and to figure out what all they needed to do..such as getting her out of the house...b/c along with the other lines...'you will need to be rested'...that gives them an excuse to stay home..(other than getting the ransom money),and the 'if we monitor you getting the money sooner' line,gives them an excuse for being seen outside early..(to get her body out of the house).
I really think JR thought LE would find her not long after arrival,as did Patsy as well..(remember the 'help me Jesus' lines...she knew she was going to be needing Him soon ! )...and I think he planned on doing the same thing he tried to do at 1PM...get the heck out of state.He knew that plane would likely still be ready to go at 7am,as was previously planned.
AS for BR...he's a bit odd anyway,and I think they could have just told him JB was sick and close the door to her room,and he needed to stay away from her so he didn't get sick,too,and he couldn't have any friends over bc of her... get him playing w his new x mas toys,such as the nintendo,to occupy his mind...and he'd buy that.
At some point,they realized all of this was just too risky though...and reversed course...can't get JB out of the house? Ok...let LE find her,and then WE'LL leave instead !

JMO8778, I originally thought this too. But when I went back over it I couldn't quite make it fit.

Whoever wrote that note, if it was one of the R's, knew absolutely that there could be no possibility of carrying out an elaborate plan that would include the removal of JBR's body on the 26th. True, they could have called and canceled their 7am. flight, saying that JBR was ill or something--but they could hardly let Melinda and Stewart, not to mention JAR, in on their plans! Remember, the original plan was for the R's to meet John's kids (and Stewart) at the house in Charlevoix--and unless JBR was seriously ill there'd be no reason for them not to join John's kids in Charlevoix, but any talk of serious illness and there was the very real chance that the kids might do what they actually did--fly to Colorado instead. Besides that, while they might try to pretend that they'd lied to the kids in an attempt to comply with the kidnapper's demands, that wouldn't make sense, since if there really had been a kidnapper watching their every move, they probably wouldn't have risked calling the kids in the first place!

And if the R's had meant "tomorrow" to mean the 27th, then why the hurry to "find" the body? There are two ways to keep the "dangerously medically trained" family members from seeing JBR's body in time to make any potentially damaging observations: one, by finding the body before those family members arrived, which happened, or two, by allowing JBR to remain undiscovered until LE finally gets around to doing a true search of the house, attic to basement, which judging by the general ineptitude of the original handling of that crime scene might even have taken until "tomorrow;" at which point poor JBR's physical remains would have been in an even more advanced state of decay. The advantage of the first was that it got the R's out of the house; the second, though, would have had the benefit of having someone other than JR "find" the body--but it's only plausible if the R's really 'sell' the idea that the kidnappers don't intend to call until the 27th, which they don't seem to have done.

I read that the news of the kidnapping reached John's kids in Minneapolis, where they'd flown from Atlanta on their way to Charlevoix. Does anyone know what time they were on the flight from Atlanta on the morning of the 26th?

 

[DeeDee249]

Keep in mind that you don't have to be medically trained to imagine how much further along JBR's decay would have been by waiting an additional day. I don't think the Rs (who as we all know KNEW she was dead and not kidpapped) would have wanted to wait the extra day.

This is another thing that infuriates me when I think about it. JR admits to being in the basement between 10-11 am (when LA notices him missing) and admits to finding the broken unlocked window in the train room, locking it, admits he never mentioned it to LE, says he doesn't know why he never mentioned it.
Now would ANYONE who thought their child had been kidnapped, having gone into the basement at all, would not check EVERY nook and cranny of that basement? It's little things like this that make me certain beyond a doubt that JR knew his daughter's body was in that basement! And it infuriates me that no one in LE seemed to see it this way.

 

[DeeDee249]

I also wonder why no one in LE thought it was odd that the duct tape that was on JBR's mouth supposedly had no fingerprints on it when JR admits to pulling it off.

 

[JMO8778]

JMO8778, I originally thought this too. But when I went back over it I couldn't quite make it fit.

Whoever wrote that note, if it was one of the R's, knew absolutely that there could be no possibility of carrying out an elaborate plan that would include the removal of JBR's body on the 26th. True, they could have called and canceled their 7am. flight, saying that JBR was ill or something--but they could hardly let Melinda and Stewart, not to mention JAR, in on their plans! Remember, the original plan was for the R's to meet John's kids (and Stewart) at the house in Charlevoix--and unless JBR was seriously ill there'd be no reason for them not to join John's kids in Charlevoix, but any talk of serious illness and there was the very real chance that the kids might do what they actually did--fly to Colorado instead. Besides that, while they might try to pretend that they'd lied to the kids in an attempt to comply with the kidnapper's demands, that wouldn't make sense, since if there really had been a kidnapper watching their every move, they probably wouldn't have risked calling the kids in the first place!

true,but I think it was written in panic mode...thinking..we've got to get her out of the house...and we must buy some time,at the same time.Later they calmed down and really started to think...

And if the R's had meant "tomorrow" to mean the 27th, then why the hurry to "find" the body?

I think they reversed course some time after it was written,and realized it was just too risky.Remember at the time it was written,they didn't quite know how things were going to go down.I think it was written very soon after she was killed,and as time progressed,their plan changed.

There are two ways to keep the "dangerously medically trained" family members from seeing JBR's body in time to make any potentially damaging observations: one, by finding the body before those family members arrived, which happened, or two, by allowing JBR to remain undiscovered until LE finally gets around to doing a true search of the house, attic to basement, which judging by the general ineptitude of the original handling of that crime scene might even have taken until "tomorrow;" at which point poor JBR's physical remains would have been in an even more advanced state of decay. The advantage of the first was that it got the R's out of the house; the second, though, would have had the benefit of having someone other than JR "find" the body--but it's only plausible if the R's really 'sell' the idea that the kidnappers don't intend to call until the 27th, which they don't seem to have done.

I think they really thought LE would find her shortly after arriving that morning..so no need to sell the idea.

I read that the news of the kidnapping reached John's kids in Minneapolis, where they'd flown from Atlanta on their way to Charlevoix. Does anyone know what time they were on the flight from Atlanta on the morning of the 26th?

good question...I'm guessing it was too late for them to be notified b/f takeoff in Atlanta...so...afraid they might fly in anyway,if they say JB is sick(Melinda was a nurse and SL was in med school)..they have to tell them she has been KN.

 

[JMO8778]

That's another thing...if they'd thought it was a real KN,JR would have thought the whole family might be in danger...someone was 'monitoring' them,you know...I think he would have found a way to keep them from coming to CO in the first place !! Even if it was via someone else.He'd have said, 'TELL THEM NO! DO NOT COME ! STAY WHERE YOU ARE !! IT'S TOO DANGEROUS HERE !'

 

[Albert18]

So, has it been decided that John's blue bathrobe was found on the floor of the room outside of his bathroom on the third floor?

There is a study on the first floor, but "John's study" is referring to his dressing room on the third floor? It's the bigger dressing room you walk through to get to his bathroom at one end of the house?

 

[Ames]

So, has it been decided that John's blue bathrobe was found on the floor of the room outside of his bathroom on the third floor?

There is a study on the first floor, but "John's study" is referring to his dressing room on the third floor? It's the bigger dressing room you walk through to get to his bathroom at one end of the house?

Yep, that's what Cookie (Judith Phillips)...says over at Forums For Justice. She posted to me that she had been in the Ramsey home...she used to be friends with them...and that Patsy had taken her upstairs to show off some new furniture. (We know that she is really who she says...because we have proof, and I believe it, because her husband DOC has written a book about JonBenet...and she has posted the cover of it on a thread. She also posted some audio of him at a reading of parts of the book, in Colorado). ANYWAY...she says that John had a small study upstairs, and that is the one that Patsy is referring to. I wondered though, if thats the Study that Patsy was referring to...and it was near John's bathroom, why did the investigators make such a big deal out of a robe being on the floor? Why was a picture taken of it....it wouldn't have been out of place, if it was found near the bathroom.