JonBenet's Skull Fractures: The Weapon

[Edmond.DantesIII]

fwiw re: tire iron

in all these articles where a tire iron was used to bash someone on the head, there were visible scalp lacerations... there were none on jonbenet:

Has it ever occurred to you that a heavy Maglite would just as easily cause visible scalp lacerations depending upon the way it is wielded? Can you think of a single reason why it would not, particularly if the head is struck with the sharp edge of the handle so as to leave an elliptical indent, such as that obtained during experiments using a heavy Maglite striking against styrofoam?

How many times were the victims struck with a tire iron in the cases you cited?

Is it the case that in every instance where a person is struck once in the head with a tire iron or crowbar that a scalp laceration necessarily occurs?

What is more, if a garrote is applied to the throat of the victim just prior to the strike on the head, thereby cutting off the blood supply to the scalp, would a tire iron, crowbar, or Maglite be just as likely to cause a scalp laceration compared to when a garrote is not applied?

 

[midwest mama]

There is a distinct possibility that one or both of the intruders had been involved in recent local burglaries.



My guess is that they rounded up the usual suspects, namely, suspects with prior burglary arrests and convictions. However, it is unlikely that these burglars were the usual suspects. Indeed, the author of the ransom note appears to be educated and not at all dependent upon swag as a necessary income. In all likelihood, she is from an upper middle class family who had little or no clue as to what sort of bad behavior their daughter had been engaged, knew the Ramsey family personally, and had no prior arrests or convictions.

As for her male accomplice, there is a good chance that he was a student at UC, and although possessed by a psychopathic personality, may not have had any criminal record as he is careful, intelligent, outwardly charming, possibly good-looking, meticulous, self-controlled, cool as a cucumber, and utterly amoral.

While I do not agree with your choice of suspects in this crime, I do agree with some of the traits you present in a perpetrator. I have underlined them above. :moo:

 

[Edmond.DantesIII]

[/U][/B]

While I do not agree with your choice of suspects in this crime, I do agree with some of the traits you present in a perpetrator. I have underlined them above. :moo:

So who is your choice of suspects, and why?

 

[wengr]

No discovered evidence of a break-in does not equate to there having been no intruders intent on burglary.

Agreed. It does not equate. It is simply condusive to RDI, and in no way condusive to IDI.

While there might not have been much reason for the average patrol officer to consider that an unlawful entry had occurred, a competent detective would know better and would not rule out the possibility.

What a competent detective would do is follow the evidence where it leads in hope of establishing a theory of the crime - as opposed to imagining a theory of the crime which has no basis in actual evidence.

 

[wengr]

In a botched burglary turned child murder, the intelligent thing to do is not take anything that could finger you as having ever been present in the Ramsey home should you ever be suspected of the crime.

Intelligent thing to do? What's the relevance of that? This imaginary pair are mensa candidates when it's convenient for you:
Gain entry without leaving any sign
Leave behind all valuables that were the reason for the break in.
Leave not a single forenzic trace of having been there

Pretty good for a pair of dipsticks that write the most inauthentic ransom note of all time, and can't even show up on the correct day.

 

[Edmond.DantesIII]

Agreed. It does not equate. It is simply condusive to RDI, and in no way condusive to IDI.

Are you absolutely certain that you understood the reply made to you? I have a feeling that you misread me.

What a competent detective would do is follow the evidence where it leads in hope of establishing a theory of the crime - as opposed to imagining a theory of the crime which has no basis in actual evidence.

Yes, and since the evidence points in the direction of this neither being a kidnapping nor parental filicide, the competent detective would have considered some other raison d'etre for the culprits---such as burglary.

 

[Edmond.DantesIII]

Pretty good for a pair of dipsticks that write the most inauthentic ransom note of all time, and can't even show up on the correct day.

Which one of the dipsticks do you think wrote the inauthentic ransom note?

And which one of the dipsticks do you think heard the Ramseys were vacationing in Michigan over the holidays, but failed to ascertain the exact day of their departure from Boulder?

My guess is that, on both counts, it was the dipstick that was completely out of her element.

 

[dodie20]

Intelligent thing to do? What's the relevance of that? This imaginary pair are mensa candidates when it's convenient for you:
Gain entry without leaving any sign
Leave behind all valuables that were the reason for the break in.
Leave not a single forenzic trace of having been there

Pretty good for a pair of dipsticks that write the most inauthentic ransom note of all time, and can't even show up on the correct day.

and then they didn't even take the body that they needed for bargaining power...the same body that they wrote the note for in the 1st place. Why would a burglar who for some unplanned reason murdered a child, leave a ransom note? He wouldn't. He would have scrammed before the shinola hit the fan. Not sat down with pen and paper and wrote a novel. moo

 

[dodie20]

In the annals of crime history, the number of burglaries that evolved into homicide is incalculable.



Once again, it appears that you are badly misinformed.



Actually, in this case, it is. Indeed, it is the only explanation for it, considering the body being left in the basement.



In a botched burglary turned child murder, the intelligent thing to do is not take anything that could finger you as having ever been present in the Ramsey home should you ever be suspected of the crime.



No discovered evidence of a break-in does not equate to there having been no intruders intent on burglary. While there might not have been much reason for the average patrol officer to consider that an unlawful entry had occurred, a competent detective would know better and would not rule out the possibility. The fact is that evidence of forceful entry is not always present in a burglary, particularly a home burglary where the residents are not fastidious about maintaining home security.

In how many of these burglaries that evolved into homicides, did the burglar write a 3 page ransom note, but then forget to take the body? It doesn't happen. Trust me, if a burglar manages to find himself mixed up in a murder, the LAST thing he wants, is to be tied to that murder. He wouldn't leave a body full of evidence, he dang sure wouldn't hand write a note about beheading the victim, and he would take the body, yes he would, and then he would dump it and hope it wasn't found. all moo Also, if the burglar/murderer decided he didn't want to take the body, he would not have left the note. If he had the time to write the longest ransom note in the history of ransom notes, in addition to a practice note, he had time to grab it on the way out. He wouldn't want his handwriting and words to lead back to him, would he? (the most fundamental rule of ransom note writing). But we all know who the handwriting and words did lead back to. moo

 

[Edmond.DantesIII]

and then they didn't even take the body that they needed for bargaining power...the same body that they wrote the note for in the 1st place. Why would a burglar who for some unplanned reason murdered a child, leave a ransom note? He wouldn't. He would have scrammed before the shinola hit the fan. Not sat down with pen and paper and wrote a novel. moo

Excellent observation.

The fact that the victim, alleged to have been kidnapped according to the author of the ransom note, being found brutally murdered in the basement, is the best evidence of there having been at least two culprits (sans the possibility of a single disorganized schizophrenic, who would have undoubtedly left evidence all over the place).

Thus, it appears that while the female intruder was busy writing the "War and Peace" of ransom notes, her male accomplice was busy murdering JonBenet.

 

[Edmond.DantesIII]

In how many of these burglaries that evolved into homicides, did the burglar write a 3 page ransom note, but then forget to take the body?

As far as I am aware, this is the first such noted incident in recent history.

Now, in what way does the uniqueness of this murder necessarily implicate the mother, father, or brother of the victim as being the culprit?

 

[wengr]

Which one of the dipsticks do you think wrote the inauthentic ransom note?

That would be PR.

 

[dodie20]

As far as I am aware, this is the first such noted incident in recent history.

Now, in what way does the uniqueness of this murder necessarily implicate the mother, father, or brother of the victim as being the culprit?

the victim? what a thing to say. I would never implicate JB as her own murderer and as far as BR is concerned, I see him as a victim too. But, what you describe as uniqueness of murder, I describe as a very ununique murder. Parent kills child, parent covers up and lies and points elsewhere, and then focuses on every detail that cops did to 'bungle the investigation', therefore turning himself into the victim . Unfortunately, this is not unique in families where the parents abuse a child until she is dead. We read about it almost every day.

 

[DeeDee249]

Why would they take the body with them?

Because it was supposed to be a kidnapping. REAL kidnappers take the victim- dead or alive. A body can be ransomed too. Why write a ransom note?

 

[Tricia]

In the annals of crime history, the number of burglaries that evolved into homicide is incalculable.

Edmond,

At Websleuths when someone posts something like you posted above we require evidence. Just you saying it is not good enough.

Please do not think we demand evidence on every little thing we don't but this is a very bold statement.

And it is very wrong.

Only 7 percent of burglaries end up with someone in the home experiencing violence. Murder must be even smaller percentage.

Read at this link.

http://crimeinamerica.net/2010/09/3...ome-good-doors-windows-prevent-violent-crime/

I would like to know how many burglaries ended up with only one person in the home being murdered while others slept through everything.

I would like to know how many of those people murdered while others slept were actually young children.

You see my point.

I am respectfully asking you to stop any further posting of statements as fact based on absolutely nothing.

Thank you,

Tricia Griffith
Co-Owner Websleuths.com

 

[Edmond.DantesIII]

And it is very wrong.

Only 7 percent of burglaries end up with someone in the home experiencing violence. Murder must be even smaller percentage.

Seven percent is an enormous number of burglary/homicides when the whole of criminal history is taken into account.

What is wrong is the suggestion that burglary and homicide do not ever occur in tandem. It happens all the time.

 

[Edmond.DantesIII]

That would be PR.

Where is your evidence? Please make your case.

 

[wengr]

Seven percent is an enormous number of burglary/homicides when the whole of criminal history is taken into account.

The post to which you are responding claims 7% burglary/violence - not 7% burglary/murder as you incorrectly state here.

 

[Lorelilly]

I wonder if the injury on JB's neck was done in her room? ST said the red turtleneck was on the floor in the bathroom . If she had the turtleneck on, and someone twisted the shirt around her neck what would happen if she had a necklace on under the shirt? The chain from the necklace, it seems to me, would leave a mark on her neck. I think I read somewhere that JB wore a necklace and ring that evening. If she tried to resist, could JB's own ring have made that mark?
Now I am thinking the head bash may have happened in her bathroom. Then I also wonder if the bash could have come from one of her trophies - that seems really gory that she would be killed by one of them, but this murder was a cruel and gory way for her to end her life.

Darlene I thought of a Pageant Trophy as the weapon too! Dear God if true what an ironic horrific end. Were the trophies in JonBenets bedroom?

 

[Lorelilly]

I have a headache now. This thread started out with OTG laying out thoughtful information regarding the blow to head and then imploded with IDI nonsense. Okay, did I miss what OTG named as the weapon? My IQ fell 50 points between page 1 and 6 of this thread so I may have missed it.