Josh Powell Money Trail (transfer of 7K)

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

The issue is more complicated than bankruptcy court because it is highly unlikely that anyone Josh Powell gave his money to had agreed to assume financial responsibility for his debts.

<snip>.

Yes, good point. Also, bankruptcy laws are very specifically written to prevent fraudulent transfers. Since bankruptcy is a court sanctioned (for lack of a better term) screwing of the creditors, the bankruptcy laws are written to specifically mitigate the harm done to them.

I did find this link that is interesting...
http://www.utahlegalservices.org/public/self-help-webpages/planning-your-estate-probate
a couple of interesting things... "4. Can I avoid probate? If you don't own any land, and your estate is less than $100,000, no probate is required. It is possible to arrange your affairs so there is no estate to probate upon your death. For example, you can give all your property away the day before you die." and further down discussing distribution of an estate where the decedent died intestate: "If only your spouse survives you, your spouse gets the entire estate."

Since Susan's body has not been found and since I don't believe a court has declared her dead, she is legally alive and would inherit (at least in Utah, WA is likely similar) all of his assets. When she is eventually declared dead, the Cox's would inheret her assets. He probably transferred the money like he did to avoid that result. He could have accomplished the same thing with a will or adding a person or persons as joint owners of his account, but maybe there are community property issues specific to WA that made that less of a sure thing. I wonder if he consulted with his lawyer about estate planning, and if attorney-client priviledge survives death in WA.

 

[passionflower]

Well all we really know is that A sister is a richer gal on Feb 4th,than she was on the 3rd.

 

[Lera213]

I think the money went to a family member, so that she could rent another self storage until and pay the rent on it. In that unit would be I think Susan's remains. MOO

 

[karen7868]

With $7000, it makes you wonder what Josh did the prior Saturday night, knowing he was going to kill himself the next day and it was going to be his last night on earth.

I honestly think he was a perv, so it really does make me wonder.

 

[DLT88]

I'm betting he hid the money somewhere in Steve's house to find. It was said on Dateline or 20/20 that the rental house appeared to be staged with photos to look like a loving home, but that it had came to light that Josh was only there for the visits, and that he really lived at Steve's house. So the email about where to find his money. I'm betting somewhere at Steve's house. JMO

Interesting - because I think he rented the house with the sole purpose of using it so kill him and the boys. Now that sounds more like a possibility if he wasn't really living in that house.

 

[sherbetjello]

If AP knew she was coming into this money from JP, and he had told her how to tie up loose ends, can she be charged with a crime? I mean, if my brother called me talking like this I'd seek immediate help, not validate the crazy talk.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Yes, good point. Also, bankruptcy laws are very specifically written to prevent fraudulent transfers. Since bankruptcy is a court sanctioned (for lack of a better term) screwing of the creditors, the bankruptcy laws are written to specifically mitigate the harm done to them.

I did find this link that is interesting...
http://www.utahlegalservices.org/public/self-help-webpages/planning-your-estate-probate
a couple of interesting things... "4. Can I avoid probate? If you don't own any land, and your estate is less than $100,000, no probate is required. It is possible to arrange your affairs so there is no estate to probate upon your death. For example, you can give all your property away the day before you die." and further down discussing distribution of an estate where the decedent died intestate: "If only your spouse survives you, your spouse gets the entire estate."

Since Susan's body has not been found and since I don't believe a court has declared her dead, she is legally alive and would inherit (at least in Utah, WA is likely similar) all of his assets. When she is eventually declared dead, the Cox's would inheret her assets. He probably transferred the money like he did to avoid that result. He could have accomplished the same thing with a will or adding a person or persons as joint owners of his account, but maybe there are community property issues specific to WA that made that less of a sure thing. I wonder if he consulted with his lawyer about estate planning, and if attorney-client priviledge survives death in WA.

BBM

AHA! That makes total sense to me (giving away his assets to keep it away from the Cox family). I've been thinking that I would not be at all surprised if they find charred remains of cash in his house. I think he would rather have burned his money than allowed it to go to the Cox family.

 

[GrainneDhu]

If AP knew she was coming into this money from JP, and he had told her how to tie up loose ends, can she be charged with a crime? I mean, if my brother called me talking like this I'd seek immediate help, not validate the crazy talk.

I suppose that some prosecutor who had too much time on their hands could come up with something but it would be a difficult case to prove.

Considering Josh Powell's legal problems, it may have seemed to him and his family supporters that there was a high risk he would be charged and jailed for *something* soon (and if you believe the WVCPD, that was indeed about to happen).

It really does seem to me like AP loved him and (obviously) totally bought into what he said. I think if he'd previously said something that was obviously suicidal, she would have sought help for him. But if he sent her information about how to shut off the utilities, etc, "just in case" she would assume that the "in case" meant "in case I am jailed."

He may have presented the money transfer to her as a "just in case." From SP's jailing, AP must surely be familiar with the whole commissary system, etc.

It is also not unusual for family members to miss what seem like screamingly obvious hints of suicide to outsiders. When people are so emotionally involved, they tend to lose their sense of perspective and their sense of what is truly normal.

 

[sherbetjello]

I totally overlooked the immenent arrest aspect of it as the worst that could happen already transpired.

I'm still haunted by AP's remark in the 9-11 call when she says "I don't want to go over there. I don't want to see."

Sounds like deep down she sorta, even in the littlest bit, knew something like this would happen.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I totally overlooked the immenent arrest aspect of it as the worst that could happen already transpired.

I'm still haunted by AP's remark in the 9-11 call when she says "I don't want to go over there. I don't want to see."

Sounds like deep down she sorta, even in the littlest bit, knew something like this would happen.

After getting a voicemail saying approximately "I'm sorry, good bye" I think even the densest sister would get a clue.

There was some sort of pervasive perspective warp associated with this case ahd it didn't just affect AP. From what Steve Downing (the Cox family lawyer) says, they were told repeatedly that LE was on the verge of arresting Josh. And I'm still trying to figure out what sort of LE person thought it was a good idea to direct the Coxes to do various things in order to deliberate pressure Josh Powell... while knowing full well he had custody of those two little boys!

 

[karen7868]

I totally overlooked the immenent arrest aspect of it as the worst that could happen already transpired.

I'm still haunted by AP's remark in the 9-11 call when she says "I don't want to go over there. I don't want to see."
Sounds like deep down she sorta, even in the littlest bit, knew something like this would happen.

BBM. I agree. Especially when the 911 operator was putting the pieces together blatantly asked her if he was supposed to be having a visitation with his kids? and Alina said she didn't know but maybe.

Now, how long had he been having these 3 hour Sunday visits? Since November? There is no way she didn't know those kids were there. And then she made the odd comment about Josh had never hurt her before and that it was not why she was afraid to go over there, it was afraid of what she would see.

Why say that unless she had thought about him hurting her before?

IMO, she knew those kids were there and rather driving straight over there while calling 911 while driving knowing they were probably in danger.

I hope this makes sense.

ETA: Also, if Josh had told Susan "over his dead body" would she get the kids, I'm sure he had made comments to Alina that the Coxes would only get the kids over his dead body.

Alina claimed she did not know Josh's address during the 911 call. I would think that if he was giving instructions for the utilities for the house, he would have had to given her the address in the emails.

 

[cindysue]

So he transferred money and also withdrew cash ? Why not just transferred it all. Why the secretive 7k that's missing? I don't understand that

 

[Gnatcatcher]

I have a dumb question, and I apologize for not having followed the details of the case too much, it's been a hard one for me to stomach. Ok, so Josh was living in a rented house, the one he blew up? Who owns that? And how does that person get compensated for loss of property and who pays to clean it up? I hope it was insured well.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I have a dumb question, and I apologize for not having followed the details of the case too much, it's been a hard one for me to stomach. Ok, so Josh was living in a rented house, the one he blew up? Who owns that? And how does that person get compensated for loss of property and who pays to clean it up? I hope it was insured well.

In this state, landlords buy property insurance that covers the property but not the renter's belongings.

I know of a case in my area that involved an out of state landlord who had a tenant who was a hoarder. By the time the landlord found out how the tenant was living, the house was in terrible condition, including mould covering the interior walls, plumbing permanently backed up, etc. The condition of the house was so bad, the insurance company decided it would be cheaper to bulldoze it and build a new house.

I don't know the relevant laws in Washington and don't know the landlord or have any information but I'd be surprised if there were a landlord anywhere who doesn't have property insurance. After all, a landlord is entrusting the tenant with something that costs tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars.

 

[sayd]

I have a dumb question, and I apologize for not having followed the details of the case too much, it's been a hard one for me to stomach. Ok, so Josh was living in a rented house, the one he blew up? Who owns that? And how does that person get compensated for loss of property and who pays to clean it up? I hope it was insured well.

It was just an innocent couple who owned the house. The short story is their homeowner's insurance would be responsible. (Renters carry a separate rental policy that covers their stuff that would not affect the homeowner.) It is possible that the insurance company would go after JP's estate to get reimbursed for the loss. However, I am assuming that since JP was still "married" to Susan, his estate would go to the Cox's. I don't think the insurance company would go after them. If for any reason, JP's estate went to Alina and company, I think they might go after her.

 

[karen7868]

After getting a voicemail saying approximately "I'm sorry, good bye" I think even the densest sister would get a clue.There was some sort of pervasive perspective warp associated with this case ahd it didn't just affect AP. From what Steve Downing (the Cox family lawyer) says, they were told repeatedly that LE was on the verge of arresting Josh. And I'm still trying to figure out what sort of LE person thought it was a good idea to direct the Coxes to do various things in order to deliberate pressure Josh Powell... while knowing full well he had custody of those two little boys!

BBM. I think Alina is a few sandwiches short of a picnic. Of course, I thought the same thing about JP in his interviews, and now we have seen how diabolical he was. She may be just as diabolical.

I wouldn't be surprised if Alina & Josh had an incestuous relationship, as well as Alina & SP. Didn't SP want multiple wives? Has there been any mention of SP having a girlfriend at the time of his arrest or from his past?

Alina & Josh were probably playing mommy and daddy to the boys.

Sickening. I can't stand her and I hope she is found accountable for something. Aside from Jennifer, that whole family is sick.

ETA: There had to be something she was trying to hide since she refused to give her cell phone and the emails voluntarily.

 

[GrainneDhu]

BBM. I think Alina is a few sandwiches short of a picnic. Of course, I thought the same thing about JP in his interviews, and now we have seen how diabolical he was. She may be just as diabolical.

I wouldn't be surprised if Alina & Josh had an incestuous relationship, as well as Alina & SP. Didn't SP want multiple wives? Has there been any mention of SP having a girlfriend at the time of his arrest or from his past?

Alina & Josh were probably playing mommy and daddy to the boys.

Sickening. I can't stand her and I hope she is found accountable for something. Aside from Jennifer, that whole family is sick.

ETA: There had to be something she was trying to hide since she refused to give her cell phone and the emails voluntarily.

I may be wrong but AP "reads" as sincere to me. I don't agree with her and I believe she is deeply mistaken about JP and SP.

I think she really does believe that Josh was the victim of LE (and a host of others). She'd bought his whole story completely.

If I'm correct, then it makes sense to me that she would be as obstructive as possible.

Also, refusing to consent to any search and seizure without a warrant is perfectly legal. She was doing no more than exercising her rights under the constitution.

I didn't agree with her but I do feel compassion towards her.

 

[mysteriew]

BBM. I think Alina is a few sandwiches short of a picnic. Of course, I thought the same thing about JP in his interviews, and now we have seen how diabolical he was. She may be just as diabolical.

I wouldn't be surprised if Alina & Josh had an incestuous relationship, as well as Alina & SP. Didn't SP want multiple wives? Has there been any mention of SP having a girlfriend at the time of his arrest or from his past?

Alina & Josh were probably playing mommy and daddy to the boys.

Sickening. I can't stand her and I hope she is found accountable for something. Aside from Jennifer, that whole family is sick.

ETA: There had to be something she was trying to hide since she refused to give her cell phone and the emails voluntarily.

Your thoughts sort of parallel mine. They grew up in a dysfunctional home. The parent of the home does not identify sexual boundaries or pay too much attention to asking permission. Who knows what happened in that home??? And in a dysfunctional home with problems of boundary distinctions, there could be multiple crossings and tangled loyalties.

I have noted since I first started following this case that AP's defense of JP seemed almost hysterical IMO. Maybe that is just her personality, but it seemed a bit overboard for an average sibling.

Another thing that crossed my mind. All those times that JP was supposed to have been talking to SP before Susan disappeared, was he really talking to SP or someone else in the HH?

We suspect that JP may have either drugged or poisoned Susan before her disappearance. Poisoning is frequently the weapon that a woman would use. IMO a woman is more likely to drug a victim before killing them. A man who is planning a murder tends to just do it. So if JP was getting advice on murder in all those phone calls, who was he getting it from?

I don't know that AP was or was not involved in Susan's disappearance. But I wouldn't rule her out IMO. I don't think any of the extended family actually murdered Susan. But yeah I do suspect that one of them may have been advising him. But I am just not so sure that it was SP.

 

[Sharai]

Ok, this is probably not what happened but I just had a thought, what if the "really big surprise" was mommy's body and JP left the scene. Purely speculation on my part, my creative process just "supposin'." Shalom, Sharai

 

[passionflower]

Ok, this is probably not what happened but I just had a thought, what if the "really big surprise" was mommy's body and JP left the scene. Purely speculation on my part, my creative process just "supposin'." Shalom, Sharai

wow,
you just knocked me off balance.
Has LE come out with ID on jp yet?
No idea on his burial, etc?
We need LE to talk to press and let everyone know
Was it jp for positive in there?
wow