Josh Takes Boys Camping at Midnight...Again?!

[TGIRecovered]

JP is still around. He brought Charlie to school for the first day today.

Thank you for that information armywife!

It is nice to know that people in the Pullayup community such as yourself are keeping an eye on those children. I realize that there is only so much you can do, but at least we know that the six year old made it to school!

I suspect that SP made up the camping trip. He looked angry to me when he spoke about it to abc4.

(Armywife is a much better source for news than some professional media outlets, IMO.):loser:

 

[krimekat]

so, is he back? Doesn't one of the boys start school today or are they going to home school now?

Wow - just plain WOW! Praying for Susan!

 

[LinasK]

Been following this for a while and I finally decided to register just cause I had this to say.

1) What proof is there that SP is even telling the truth? Just seems like if people start disappearing and he's telling the media they've gone somewhere, I'd think twice before believing him.

2) Midnight camping. To be honest, heading out to camp at midnight is weird, but it's not THAT weird. Some people are up at odd hours, and unfortunately their kids will often follow suit. What IS weird is unplanned camping in the winter during a blizzard. So Josh and boys leaving at midnight to camping during a Washington summer doesn't really change anything, other than make it look like they're trying to prove something.

Personally I doubt they went anywhere. SP has a great story... oh, those crazy kids, they're staying at my house and they went out at midnight to go camping. But really it's SP who is at the center of this whole affair. But that's just my opinion. For all I know these people are just absolute deviants and Susan really did run away. I know one thing. I sure wouldn't blame her.

Yeah, it is, because you're sure not going to set up a tent and campgrounds in the dark, and you'd also disturb other campers with your headlights! If we can't leave before sunset, we get a motel or stay home and leave the next morning!

 

[krimekat]

i'm putting a question out there to all readers--how many of you (non-lawyers and people who live paycheck to paycheck) have been to court to fight on behalf of a child? and if so, how was that experience?

My younger sister has been in court for her 2 boys (18 full time student & 16) in IL to get child support WHEN their dad works for at least 13 years. He was mandated to give her $55 bi-weekly for both . . . then she got word (and they both began driving) he was the mgr @ a great retail store. Then she went to State's Atty office where she lives & for FREE the SA filed & the Court increased payments to $180 a week (26% his salary) plus $28 for the back support he owes (>$40K).

My sister & her husband struggle -- I mean, STRUGGLE! With three kids (18, 16, 11) of their own & strays that come by because home is bad (you cannot believe the way people breed where I grew up), BOTH my sister & BIL went to school after the factory they BOTH worked at moved their lines to MX & China. She is continuing to pursue her BSN Degree (which she started 19 yrs ago THEN got preggers) & he got his AA in Auto Tech/Painting. AND THEY STILL STRUGGLE.

There are no jobs in south central IL unless you are a farmer -- and they do farm 80% of their land, but that is another story.

Child Support Issue: the Great State of IL touts they have cracked down on "dead beat dads" but it has taken my sister a very long time with NO LAWYER mind you (just the SA who is very ANTI-Dead Beat Dad for reasons of her own) to receive what the State of IL mandates.

The boys' dad is not trying to shuck responsibility, but he did ASK the Judge, "how am I supposed to live?" and my sister said EVERYONE laughed!!! You sacrifice! The boys' dad also said that he had a daughter & my sister's atty (the SA) said, "which county? Let's get that taken care of, too."

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

My sister cannot afford a super atty to press the issue but is blessed to live where the State's Attorney's office is not bogged down with other legal issues (except METH-related, OMG).

I am just shocked at all these children being born in a single parent environment & the drama they endure because of it. What happened to "family unit"?

Back on topic -- where is he & where are Susan's boys?

 

[katydid23]

Been following this for a while and I finally decided to register just cause I had this to say.

1) What proof is there that SP is even telling the truth? Just seems like if people start disappearing and he's telling the media they've gone somewhere, I'd think twice before believing him.

2) Midnight camping. To be honest, heading out to camp at midnight is weird, but it's not THAT weird. Some people are up at odd hours, and unfortunately their kids will often follow suit. What IS weird is unplanned camping in the winter during a blizzard. So Josh and boys leaving at midnight to camping during a Washington summer doesn't really change anything, other than make it look like they're trying to prove something.

Personally I doubt they went anywhere. SP has a great story... oh, those crazy kids, they're staying at my house and they went out at midnight to go camping. But really it's SP who is at the center of this whole affair. But that's just my opinion. For all I know these people are just absolute deviants and Susan really did run away. I know one thing. I sure wouldn't blame her.

:welcome::fireworks:

Good first post. I agree that leaving at midnight is not totally unheard of, EXCEPT that his original camping trip was in DECEMBER and his kids were two and four. That makes it totally ridiculous.

I agree that in the summer some people may like to drive in the middle of the night. But with toddlers?

 

[IhaveanOpinion]

i'm putting a question out there to all readers--how many of you (non-lawyers and people who live paycheck to paycheck) have been to court to fight on behalf of a child? and if so, how was that experience?

TGIRecovered they do not live in Utah, they live in Washington State. If they were in Utah they might have a better chance, but doubtful.

Having been there (custody/visitation battle) with my wife & her ex-husband and step-children, it's not so much about money (which was over 100,000.00, over 5 years). But the emotional cost is and can be more costly (court ruling against the party in every finding.). I personaly know others that have spent a longer time and much more money, in the end it is the children that have lost.

Sorry but what you and I and many others may think to be abuse/neglect is not necessary abuse/neglect in the eyes of the court. I am not sure even that midnight camping trips with small children would be found or defined as child abuse in the legal sense, unfortunately lacking common-sense is not a crime. The courts tend to use unclear definitions (other than financial) of what is in the "Best interest of the child". :banghead:

An example of this here in Utah is "Ethan Stacy". look the case up.

With Josh having no criminal record (as of yet), no reports of domestic abuse, no record of drug abuse, no CPS involvement (reported child abuse) I believe that the courts would be hard pressed to find cause to remove the children from his custody. I am sure there may be cases out there were custody was taken from parent(s) for emotional abuse but I am unaware of any of them. Like I said being “Stupid” is not a crime. :doh:

That’s my “RANT” for the day.

 

[runsdeep]

i'm putting a question out there to all readers--how many of you (non-lawyers and people who live paycheck to paycheck) have been to court to fight on behalf of a child? and if so, how was that experience?

and i'm not going off subject with this question, just trying to get across how for those of us who have tried to protect our little ones legally were in for a rude awakening about the reality of the courts--and to show how little resources the cox's have in this matter.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

My younger sister has been in court for her 2 boys (18 full time student & 16) in IL to get child support WHEN their dad works for at least 13 years. He was mandated to give her $55 bi-weekly for both . . . then she got word (and they both began driving) he was the mgr @ a great retail store. Then she went to State's Atty office where she lives & for FREE the SA filed & the Court increased payments to $180 a week (26% his salary) plus $28 for the back support he owes (>$40K).

My sister & her husband struggle -- I mean, STRUGGLE! With three kids (18, 16, 11) of their own & strays that come by because home is bad (you cannot believe the way people breed where I grew up), BOTH my sister & BIL went to school after the factory they BOTH worked at moved their lines to MX & China. She is continuing to pursue her BSN Degree (which she started 19 yrs ago THEN got preggers) & he got his AA in Auto Tech/Painting. AND THEY STILL STRUGGLE.

There are no jobs in south central IL unless you are a farmer -- and they do farm 80% of their land, but that is another story.

Child Support Issue: the Great State of IL touts they have cracked down on "dead beat dads" but it has taken my sister a very long time with NO LAWYER mind you (just the SA who is very ANTI-Dead Beat Dad for reasons of her own) to receive what the State of IL mandates.

The boys' dad is not trying to shuck responsibility, but he did ASK the Judge, "how am I supposed to live?" and my sister said EVERYONE laughed!!! You sacrifice! The boys' dad also said that he had a daughter & my sister's atty (the SA) said, "which county? Let's get that taken care of, too."

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

My sister cannot afford a super atty to press the issue but is blessed to live where the State's Attorney's office is not bogged down with other legal issues (except METH-related, OMG).

I am just shocked at all these children being born in a single parent environment & the drama they endure because of it. What happened to "family unit"?

Back on topic -- where is he & where are Susan's boys?

I am here in south central Illinois too. If any of the factories that are left hire, they do it through a temp then layoff in a few months so no benefits.

 

[suzanne m]

LE better be keeping a close eye on him. He looks desperate, depressed, haggard and must be under a TON of pressure with charges looming, not to mention the stress of living under the roof of his control freak father. With the new revelations his father announced in the media about his obsession w/ Susan...if it IS TRUE that Josh didn't know (which I doubt..I think they are fabricating it together)...anyway.. if by a slim chance it were true he didn't know..he may be losing what's left of his mind. He may think suicide and killing his children is the only way out. He seems selfish enough to take out the kids w/ him. They better watch him and the safety of the kids...the whole country is watching with concern for the kids well being while being held hostage by those nuts. And yes, they are being held hostage, imo.
Is midnight camping just a lame move to prove his alibi is solid, or did he flee from the home to get away from Bad Dad?

I was thinking the same thing! I am now concerned what state of mind he is in and am worried about the boys. It never entered my mind before, but now, does anyone think he could do anything to the boys? If he doesn't want them left with his father and is considering checking out, maybe he could take them with him. I hope someone is watching every move he makes, especially when he has the kids.

 

[Rainier]

Yeah, it is, because you're sure not going to set up a tent and campgrounds in the dark, and you'd also disturb other campers with your headlights! If we can't leave before sunset, we get a motel or stay home and leave the next morning!

I'd always assumed they were just staying in their car. Keep in mind, I'm not saying that leaving to camp at midnight is a good idea. I'm just saying it's not that odd in the grand scheme of things. I think it's been established that the Powell's deviate from the norm. That Josh is a bad parent and decides to take his kids camping at midnight... well I've seen stranger things from people I know.

My point was that camping at midnight isn't so far-fetched. It's within the realm of idiotic things people do. Camping in the winter during a blizzard... that's near suicidal. As stupid as some of my friends and family are, I don't know any who behave in that manner.

 

[diphi]

Abc4 is the only media outlet that reported about this camping trip. That makes me wonder. Was SP lying to the reporter?

Did Josh really leave town, and if he did has he gone on the run, as mysteriew suggested? Does Josh have enough money to run? Did he really take the boys with him? Who would harbor him? Is he even capable of ditching the van and living in the woods? That van sticks out like a sore thumb and Josh's face and wimpy demeanor have been all over the news so he would have to lay really low. How would he get money? I don't picture him doing menial labor. I don't picture him working at all.

Has abc4 truly followed up on this story at all? Marcos Ortiz' blog post came out on Saturday or Sunday. No story on the website until Tuesday, no follow up since then.
All of the other media outlets have left this camping story alone.

School starts today. I hope that we'll have some news. It is frustrating to see the media dropping the ball.

If the story is bogus, why don't the other media outlets simply say so? If Josh is really gone, that's a story even if they don't believe he is camping.

Is anyone brave enough to volunteer to go to the Powell's website and see if they have anything to say about the situation?

What concrens me is that if the boys are in Pullayup and attending school, at least they have a safety net. There would be responsible people, (teachers, school nurse, counselor, administration), having regular contact with the children.

If they are alone with Josh, somewhere away from the scruitiny of police, extended family, child protective services, and a community that knows the situation, they are at the mercy of a man who is clearly not looking out for their best interests, and who has reason to want to keep them from talking. They are alone with a man who is so unstable that he can't keep a job, live on his own, or sustain a marriage. They are alone with a killer, and the oldest boy witnessed at least part of the crime.

LE knows that Josh is a mental and emotional wreck. They know that he could crack at any time. If they were my grandbabies or nephews, I would be in court in a heartbeat, making a fuss until all avenues were exhausted to get those kids away from the Powells. I am sure that some lawyer somewhere would take this high profile case pro-bono. If poeple were sure that donations would be used to save these boys from the Powells, more money could be raised.

It appears that LE and even the Cox's are willing to take a chance with those boys' lives, hoping and praying that Josh won't do something stupid.

IMO, that is a shame.

BBM

Just starting to read todays comments. Good post. JP is very "fragile" at this point.

imo

 

[Soulmagent]

i'm putting a question out there to all readers--how many of you (non-lawyers and people who live paycheck to paycheck) have been to court to fight on behalf of a child? and if so, how was that experience?

I live almost paycheck to paycheck and have been to court many times over custody issues,

I learned everything I can get done on my own saves me money.

Certified court documents I go hunt down myself.

Criminal charges I get the copies from courts myself.

I send out my own subpoena's for witnesses.

At 250.00 an hour I just saved myself 750.00 at the lowest possible rate I would be charged but most likey it would be double that.

My last round in court cost me a 1900.00 retainer and I got back 800.00 from the lawyer because he didnt need to use it. More important then that, I was able to prove and show the court what they needed to see and have my daughters dad realize he didnt have a way to fool the system anymore.

I bought an important book called" Everything you need to know about child custody''
It showed me , if you take the right steps and have the right lawyer and know what the important issues are in the case, a person can save alot of money and find what is best for the child or children.

It was hard ,depressing and stressful but it was worth every minute I spent worried over it. My ex used court as a way to control me years after we split up.

I do think the Cox could stand an wonderful chance of being awarded custody of SP's children ,if they took the correct steps at least under VA law.

They would just have to ask for a mental evaluation on people who are living with the children ,in VA they would look at that. I dont know about WA.

 

[Rhyme & Reason]

nominated for post of the month club!

Has my vote!!

 

[katydid23]

I am increasingly worried about the boys safety. They are getting older. They cannot be kept away from others and from talking about their memories forever. JP has to be worried more as things get more stressed and as more pressure comes down on him.

His recent midnight camping trip only shows further evidence of his lack of confidence in his silly alibi. But it really worries me that he might harm himself and the boys if he feels that everything is going to fall apart.

 

[MsFacetious]

I'd always assumed they were just staying in their car. Keep in mind, I'm not saying that leaving to camp at midnight is a good idea. I'm just saying it's not that odd in the grand scheme of things. I think it's been established that the Powell's deviate from the norm. That Josh is a bad parent and decides to take his kids camping at midnight... well I've seen stranger things from people I know.

My point was that camping at midnight isn't so far-fetched. It's within the realm of idiotic things people do. Camping in the winter during a blizzard... that's near suicidal. As stupid as some of my friends and family are, I don't know any who behave in that manner.

We went "camping" for the 4th of July weekend. A family reunion. I tried, but I couldn't bring myself to actually spend the night.
I was terrified that my escape artist child would escape the motor home or the tent.

Friday night, we left to come home after midnight because we decided at the last minute to come home that night.
It was 3am before we got home.
Saturday night we left around 10pm.
Sunday, we left around 11pm.

Now, keep in mind... there are differences.

I have 30 adult witnesses, pictures and phone records to vouch for my whereabouts.
My children are 7 and 8... not 2 and 4.

The drive for me was 2 hours to get home.
I've been camping there since I was born and could drive it in my sleep.
It was July, not December and I was in a 4 wheel drive truck anyway.

This was a family reunion, a yearly special occasion. Not just a random wild hair moment.

I am a very spontaneous person.
In August 2009, I finally found a cooling vest for my daughter who doesn't sweat.
We were leaving to go to National Parks and Vegas the next day and this location was NOT on the way.
So my kids and I left immediately at 2pm and drove 3 hours to the lady's house and 3 hours back right then.
Then we embarked on our ten day trip the next day... which my daughter was able to enjoy with her vest.

I have also been known to make a spontaneous trip to the cabin, regardless of the weather. I have no problem driving in the snow.

However... the night Susan went missing?
You had to be blind, crazy, suicidal, drunk, high, or all of the above to choose that night to go anywhere.

Unless of course, you had a body to hide. I am sure I would have spontaneously left that night if I needed to hide a body. :twocents:

 

[TxLady2]

TGIRecovered they do not live in Utah, they live in Washington State. If they were in Utah they might have a better chance, but doubtful.

Having been there (custody/visitation battle) with my wife & her ex-husband and step-children, it's not so much about money (which was over 100,000.00, over 5 years). But the emotional cost is and can be more costly (court ruling against the party in every finding.). I personaly know others that have spent a longer time and much more money, in the end it is the children that have lost.

Sorry but what you and I and many others may think to be abuse/neglect is not necessary abuse/neglect in the eyes of the court. I am not sure even that midnight camping trips with small children would be found or defined as child abuse in the legal sense, unfortunately lacking common-sense is not a crime. The courts tend to use unclear definitions (other than financial) of what is in the "Best interest of the child". :banghead:

An example of this here in Utah is "Ethan Stacy". look the case up.

With Josh having no criminal record (as of yet), no reports of domestic abuse, no record of drug abuse, no CPS involvement (reported child abuse) I believe that the courts would be hard pressed to find cause to remove the children from his custody. I am sure there may be cases out there were custody was taken from parent(s) for emotional abuse but I am unaware of any of them. Like I said being “Stupid” is not a crime. :doh:

That’s my “RANT” for the day.

Good points, and I agree. Being a suspect in the disappearance of his wife is probably not a good enough reason to consider removing the children from him, because the spouse is usually the suspect, until they can be cleared, usually with a solid alibi. And even IF he killed his wife it does not mean he would harm his children. From the few media clips I've seen, Josh appears to be very protective of his boys.
I do agree that taking ones so young out camping in blizzard conditions might be a tad reckless... and stupid.... but it probably doesn't fall into the category of child abuse. There is also the matter of considering what is best for the child. Those boys have already lost their mother, so as long as Josh is not hurting them physically, and is taking care of their needs, a judge might decide that it is best to leave them with their father. They may not know their maternal grandparents as well, and would be unhappy living with them. For all we know, these boys may be getting the best care in the world, and would be heartbroken if they were taken from their father, especially when their mother is missing.

 

[Soulmagent]

TGIRecovered they do not live in Utah, they live in Washington State. If they were in Utah they might have a better chance, but doubtful.

Having been there (custody/visitation battle) with my wife & her ex-husband and step-children, it's not so much about money (which was over 100,000.00, over 5 years). But the emotional cost is and can be more costly (court ruling against the party in every finding.). I personaly know others that have spent a longer time and much more money, in the end it is the children that have lost.

Sorry but what you and I and many others may think to be abuse/neglect is not necessary abuse/neglect in the eyes of the court. I am not sure even that midnight camping trips with small children would be found or defined as child abuse in the legal sense, unfortunately lacking common-sense is not a crime. The courts tend to use unclear definitions (other than financial) of what is in the "Best interest of the child". :banghead:

An example of this here in Utah is "Ethan Stacy". look the case up.

With Josh having no criminal record (as of yet), no reports of domestic abuse, no record of drug abuse, no CPS involvement (reported child abuse) I believe that the courts would be hard pressed to find cause to remove the children from his custody. I am sure there may be cases out there were custody was taken from parent(s) for emotional abuse but I am unaware of any of them. Like I said being “Stupid” is not a crime. :doh:

That’s my “RANT” for the day.

Just because Josh has nothing that looks bad on his parental record does not mean the boys best interest are being met.

A cusotdy case would not be a way to put Josh out there. It is meant to decide which person filing for custody of the children would offer the boys the best enivorment for their needs.

Who is able to met their emotional needs? There educational needs, their pyschological needs and health needs. Not just met them but who does it better. Also VA has a law where any evidence of family violance agaisnt any family member it would be admitted into court So if DAD or anyone else in the home currently was charged with something agaisnt some other family member even years ago it would be admissable in a custody case. I dont know if WA has anything like that or not.
If bought up it must be taken into consideration. They cannot ignore it.

Are the boys seeing anyone for emotional distress? If not why? Surely they could benefit from that. Have they been doing well in school ? Any issues with adjusting all the changes in their lives?

Why are they being isolated from family? That isnt looked good on in court.
How many people live in the home? That matters too. sometimes a school district can be the thing that tips the scales one way or the other. Is the mental state of the people in the enviroment one that is healthy?


The burden of proof would be on the grandparents.
I dont think they need a cause like in a criminal court I am pretty sure they just need it proven where the boys would get the best care. Again I do not know about how it works in Washington but in custody case it isnt always one parent is a bad parent. Sometime both are great parents who dont understand what it is the court wants them to show.

IMO alot of people lose custody of their kids by thinking they have to prove themselves a good parent or prove the other parent a bad parent. The only thing that needs to be proven is the best interest of the child is already being met or not being met.

 

[mysteriew]

I'd always assumed they were just staying in their car. Keep in mind, I'm not saying that leaving to camp at midnight is a good idea. I'm just saying it's not that odd in the grand scheme of things. I think it's been established that the Powell's deviate from the norm. That Josh is a bad parent and decides to take his kids camping at midnight... well I've seen stranger things from people I know.

My point was that camping at midnight isn't so far-fetched. It's within the realm of idiotic things people do. Camping in the winter during a blizzard... that's near suicidal. As stupid as some of my friends and family are, I don't know any who behave in that manner.

For teens and young adults I would agree. But not for parents. First you would need food and also extra warm clothing. Blankets/sleeping bags and pillows. Plus the countless misc items you would need for young kids. It would still be a project to pack for the two kids.

And I just can't see a (living) mother allowing the father to take two young kids camping at midnight, with a snow storm on the way.

 

[mysteriew]

Just because Josh has nothing that looks bad on his parental record does not mean the boys best interest are being met.

A cusotdy case would not be a way to put Josh out there. It is meant to decide which person filing for custody of the children would offer the boys the best enivorment for their needs.

Who is able to met their emotional needs? There educational needs, their pyschological needs and health needs. Not just met them but who does it better. Also VA has a law where any evidence of family violance agaisnt any family member it would be admitted into court So if DAD or anyone else in the home currently was charged with something agaisnt some other family member even years ago it would be admissable in a custody case. I dont know if WA has anything like that or not.
If bought up it must be taken into consideration. They cannot ignore it.

Are the boys seeing anyone for emotional distress? If not why? Surely they could benefit from that. Have they been doing well in school ? Any issues with adjusting all the changes in their lives?

Why are they being isolated from family? That isnt looked good on in court.
How many people live in the home? That matters too. sometimes a school district can be the thing that tips the scales one way or the other. Is the mental state of the people in the enviroment one that is healthy?


The burden of proof would be on the grandparents.
I dont think they need a cause like in a criminal court I am pretty sure they just need it proven where the boys would get the best care. Again I do not know about how it works in Washington but in custody case it isnt always one parent is a bad parent. Sometime both are great parents who dont understand what it is the court wants them to show.

IMO alot of people lose custody of their kids by thinking they have to prove themselves a good parent or prove the other parent a bad parent. The only thing that needs to be proven is the best interest of the child is already being met or not being met.

In order to remove a child from their parent you have to prove the parent is an "unfit" parent. That usually means they are either physically abusing or neglectful of the child or does something that endangers them. Emotionally abusing them is so hard to prove that usually it isn't even tried.

Whether the judge would see taking them camping at midnight in a snowstorm as endangering them would be unlikely. First we know the boys weren't harmed that night, and how do you prove they were in danger at any point? They didn't have an accident, no indication that they suffered any frostbite, no indication that they suffered in any way.

Lack of counseling for the kids, all the parent has to do is say they haven't seen any indication that the child needs counseling. That they are handling the missing mother pretty well under the circumstances.

Isolation from family. All the parent has to do is say they aren't isolated. They see the paternal family, and friends and school mates. They aren't seeing the maternal GP's because they blame the father for the mother being missing. (At least according to JP, from what I have seen the GP's aren't blaming it on JP they are just calling for him to cooperate with LE.)

Who is best able to meet their needs, that works in a custody case between two parents, but not when trying to remove a child from a parent. Maintaining the family unit is important in the eyes of the court.... unless it is not in the best interest of the kids.

Violence against a family member. Some states have that and some states don't. But in any case I haven't heard that there were any prior formal complaints of violence against JP. And at this point JP hasn't been formally accused of any crime against a family member, nor has he been convicted. So even if he is a POI or even a suspect, no court is going to use that as a determining factor, though it would of course be considered.

It's a touchy thing to sue for custody of the grankids and prove unfit parent. If they move too early and lose, it could hurt a future opportunity to sue for custody when they have a better chance to win.

 

[gibby207]

I had a dream last night that Josh went camping and committed suicide. When it got to the part of my dream where they were finding out if he killed his children too (murder/suicide), I woke myself up. I couldn't bear to know.