Kaine wishes the MFH plot would have gone through

[Kat]

Jumping off this post, and mine above, then where would be the most likely place for her to have taken Kyron ?

If her motive was to hurt Kaine, what places have the most meaning to Kaine as they relate to Kyron? What would add further pain to an already horrendous situation?

I wonder if there was a special activity that Son and Father shared? A time where Daddy felt close to Kyron? For instance: Some Dad's take their children on hunting trips with them, some fish, some bowl...KWIM? Interesting Calliope. JMHO.

 

[ami]

butwhatif, see for me, I don't feel like I'm ignoring Kaines' faults or what I perceive as his faults anyway..I'm just not concerned with any character flaws he may or may not have..nor do I care that I find his demeanor a little cool at times UNLESS any of those things played a part in Kyrons disappearance. IF one believes him a POI, I can understand those things being pointed out..as they are done with TH..I've read some quite unflattering things said on the net about KH and to be honest I also believe some to be true, but since it doesn't appear that LE has focused on him in any way, it makes me feel yucky to even think about hinting at any of that carp. Kinda like I'd be pointlessly victimizing a victim ....does any of that make a lick of sense?

I also wonder how much of what DY and KH say during clips and interviews is what LE wants out there, but can't say.. to put pressure on TH, but gets it out through them. IDK, just a thought..

One thing for sure.. DY and KH have shown much more restraint in what they gave said and done than I would ever be able to..THAT'S A FACT! lol

BTW~It sure is awesome to 'see' you around my friend! :blowkiss:

BBM, and thanks so much for writing that! It's exactly how I feel. If Kaine were a suspect (even just in our sleuthing minds) then his faults become patterns or potential motives for a horrible crime. If he's not suspected of this crime, he's the victim of a terrible, inhumane tragedy along with his poor son and bashing him for his flaws as a husband, ex-husband, public speaker or even father feels gratuitously cruel to me.

 

[ami]

What scares me is that it could be something cold and calculating and premeditated, or it could be something impulsive that makes absolutely no sense. I'm not sure which would be more scary!

I was thinking about this last night. I wonder if we'll ever really know. I checked the book out of the library about "eraser" crimes - people who want to erase some part of their responsibility or some part of their life because they think life without the person will be better and allow them to have what they think they want (Scott Peterson, Susan Smith, etc). Often these people have no history of violence and they are those you would never, ever suspect of murder. But they snap and carry it out chillingly methodically. I was mentally comparing the author's list of commonalities between these crimes to Kyron's disappearance and it breaks my heart to think that this type of crime is more likely than having him stashed somewhere.

 

[Calliope]

I wonder if there was a special activity that Son and Father shared? A time where Daddy felt close to Kyron? For instance: Some Dad's take their children on hunting trips with them, some fish, some bowl...KWIM? Interesting Calliope. JMHO.

I remember Kaine saying they played sports. Seems I've heard of camping. I know there was at least one photo of them together at a soccer field. IMO though, it would have to be a place that has special meaning to Kaine. Maybe even a place he'd go to for comfort in this time.

 

[cluciano63]

I was thinking about this last night. I wonder if we'll ever really know. I checked the book out of the library about "eraser" crimes - people who want to erase some part of their responsibility or some part of their life because they think life without the person will be better and allow them to have what they think they want (Scott Peterson, Susan Smith, etc). Often these people have no history of violence and they are those you would never, ever suspect of murder. But they snap and carry it out chillingly methodically. I was mentally comparing the author's list of commonalities between these crimes to Kyron's disappearance and it breaks my heart to think that this type of crime is more likely than having him stashed somewhere.

I read that book last year...it is very interesting and scary. And they usually act in order to remove what they see as an inconvenience from their lives, as you say, "erasing" the "problem" without the stigma or hassle of a divorce, etc.

But this case makes me wonder, as Kaine should have been the target (well-we know he might have been in another way) but why Kyron? And also, the way she went about the MFH, if she did, does not match with up with a very personal crime against Kyron. She clearly wanted to keep her hands clean with Kaine (if plot was real). So it seems odd that one person would have two totally different sets of plans for different people.

 

[Calliope]

What scares me is that it could be something cold and calculating and premeditated, or it could be something impulsive that makes absolutely no sense. I'm not sure which would be more scary!

Well to continue with my thoughts above, if it was premeditated then I'd be thinking of somewhere that would have a connection to Kaine. Impulsive... places Terri is most familiar with or gravitates to in times of stress.

 

[AbbieNormal]

Kaine Horman: I feel responsible. I feel guilty. It’s my job to protect him, it’s my job to be there for him. I was there for him and someone got past and got him on my watch. I’m very upset about it, I’m very emotional about it. It’s not right. It shouldn’t have happened. We all trusted her. I feel partly responsible.

I in a weird way, I almost wish that her plot that she originally put in place [allegedly, to hire a landscaper to kill Kaine] would have gone through, because he would still be here. So I live with that guilt every day, and you know what, I turn it around, and I [make] it into something positive to go help find him. … I’m not saying I feel directly responsible for it, but I feel really guilty about it. And I wish there was anything I could do to change places with him in any way, shape or form. My life to get him back, it doesn’t matter. I would do anything, I would give anything, and I always would. Up to this point I have always been there in that capacity. Anything bad that happens to him, I wish I could shoulder it for him, [that] I could take it away from him. I wish it would come to me instead of him. It just didn’t go that way this time, and I really wish it would have.

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/29/kyron-horman-update-kaines-feelings-about-decision-to-marry-stepmom/

I wonder why he believes that if he would have died, Kyron would still be here?

Poor Kaine. Maybe he feels if he was killed in the MFH plot, Kyron would have gone back to live FT with his biological mother, Desiree, and would have been safe from TH.

 

[bessie]

If that's the case, and it is to be believed she wanted Kaine dead, and in his stead chose to harm his child, what great harm could Kaine have perpetrated against Terri to get her to carry something like this off? If MFH wasn't gonna work, what the heck could have propelled her to go this far?

It doesn't make sense with the answers we've been given, and it surely doesn't make sense based in Kaine's guilt for not having protected Kyron to the point of wishing he'd been killed instead.

Disappearing a child and plotting a spouse's murder are irrational acts in that they are not based on sound judgment in accordance with the ethical standards and mores of modern society. Therefore, no answer would make sense from our standpoint as rational adults. The question really is what would make sense in TH's mind, if she's guilty of these acts. To find the answers we'd have to have a better understanding of her psychological make up.

 

[Aedrys]

I read that book last year...it is very interesting and scary. And they usually act in order to remove what they see as an inconvenience from their lives, as you say, "erasing" the "problem" without the stigma or hassle of a divorce, etc.

But this case makes me wonder, as Kaine should have been the target (well-we know he might have been in another way) but why Kyron? And also, the way she went about the MFH, if she did, does not match with up with a very personal crime against Kyron. She clearly wanted to keep her hands clean with Kaine (if plot was real). So it seems odd that one person would have two totally different sets of plans for different people.

IMO, Kaine is a full grown man that can fight back against her. Kyron is a helpless child she can take total control of and do what she wants. Seems to me she got frustrated that she couldn't get rid of Kaine, so she got rid of the one person she could and did have control over.

I had a boss once that treated me and my co-workers like crap. I found out much later that she was getting hell from her boss. She couldn't do anything about it without losing her job, so her only recourse was to make the people under her that she controlled feel as crappy as she did. I think something like that is what happened here.

So yes, two different plans for two different people. I can totally see that. And now Kaine is paying a heavier price for it. He'd love to trade places with his son, but he can't.

 

[Chablis]

If that's the case, and it is to be believed she wanted Kaine dead, and in his stead chose to harm his child, what great harm could Kaine have perpetrated against Terri to get her to carry something like this off? If MFH wasn't gonna work, what the heck could have propelled her to go this far?

It doesn't make sense with the answers we've been given, and it surely doesn't make sense based in Kaine's guilt for not having protected Kyron to the point of wishing he'd been killed instead.

What could have propelled her to go this far?? Is the only answer Kaine was being a mean husband to her? It couldn't be mental illness, or a psychotic break? It couldn't be untreated postpartum depression?

These types of crimes never make sense, there is no rationalizing, but there are other options here other than Kaine being that super bad hubby. She had a car, she could have taken her child and left if this was the case at anytime, she was a stay at home Mom, there were plenty escape options for her.

 

[tlcya]

wth??:shocked2:

I am truly shocked that Kaine and Kaine's actions, demeanors, and words are LITERALLY being compared to those of Ron Cummings...

This is absolutely shocking that these two men are being referenced one to another even in the slightest of likeness in any way, shape, or form.

Kaine is now in the same category of a man that is a habitual offender(tho not found guilty of many of the charges, but nonetheless has been charged with a multitude of criminal offense) and is currently incarcerated on multiple felony drug trafficking charges and will continue to be incarcerated for at minimum the next 15 yrs? A comparison to Kaine?

Ron's actions back when Haleigh disappeared were EXTREMELY emotional, crying in front of cameras, and crying while pleading for whomever had his daughter to please bring her home...

These actions of Ron have been scrutinized, criticized, etc and then Kaine acting in a complete opposite demeanor since his son disappeared, very calm, controlled, etc but yet also still pleading for his son's return...
And yet Kaine. his actions and his demeanor have too been met with the exact same criticism, scrutiny, and negative judgements...heit

I am now understanding the very many posts that are saying that in "some eyes" Kaine cannot do anything "right" that no matter what his words, demeanors or actions their are "those in glass houses that continue casting stones"(<---a quote from a previous post in this thread)...

But IMO no matter what "negativity" ppl feel about Kaine, it's preposterous for Kaine Horman( an educated man with a highly respectable job who worked hard and provided for his family, a man extremely health conscious and seems to take much pride in himself and his health including regularly working out, and to our knowledge NOT involved in any way shape or form with using drugs or selling them) to even be in the near vacinity of anything similar to that of Ron Cummings ( a man that in past years was known to go without or moving job to job, active living in extreme risky&illegal lifestyle in and around his children, known DCS cases, and alleged major drug use and dealing)

There is absolutely NO COMPARISON WHATSOEVER. Completely unfounded and frankly all together just COMPLETELY UNTRUE.


IMO.. MOO. MOO and all that stuff.. IMO.. MOO

Granted these two fathers share very little in common on the surface. however, they do share two very important commonalities. Both men have missing children who disappeared while under the care and supervision of their significant others, who both say they have no idea where those children are. To go further, both fathers have subsequently beensubjected to the harsh media glare of national attention. Both fathers emotional response to the disappearance of their children or lack thereof have been brought up more than once here on websleuths and seen in and unfavorable light by some members.

I think debs in right on the money with her comparison. I do not think debs was in anyway suggesting that Kaine is similar to Ron in the ways you are taking offense at. She was simply pointing out that anytime someone is involved (responsible party or innocent family member) in a case such as this
their responses, their words, their actions are picked apart. Every nuance is looked at and analysed.

Some have based their belief that Ron is gulity of wrongdoing on his overwrought emotional appearances before the press. Some on this thread have called into question Kaine's seeming lack of emotional response. At least that was what I took from debs post. I had the impression that debs was making the same point as you. Kaine is damned if he does damned if he doesn't in some eyes. MOO

 

[Chablis]

Granted these two fathers share very little in common on the surface. however, they do share two very important commonalities. Both men have missing children who disappeared while under the care and supervision of their significant others, who both say they have no idea where those children are. To go further, both fathers have subsequently beensubjected to the harsh media glare of national attention. Both fathers emotional response to the disappearance of their children or lack thereof have been brought up more than once here on websleuths and seen in and unfavorable light by some members.

I think debs in right on the money with her comparison. I do not think debs was in anyway suggesting that Kaine is similar to Ron in the ways you are taking offense at. She was simply pointing out that anytime someone is involved (responsible party or innocent family member) in a case such as this
their responses, their words, their actions are picked apart. Every nuance is looked at and analysed.

Some have based their belief that Ron is gulity of wrongdoing on his overwrought emotional appearances before the press. Some on this thread have called into question Kaine's seeming lack of emotional response. At least that was what I took from debs post. MOO

Except I think one thing that can be learned in these two cases, is that when the cops TRULY have evidence to present to the father of a missing child, they tell him, they let him know, hey Kaine, she wanted to kill you a few months back, they tell the father these things especially when there are other children left and the person could be a potential harm, and the father has a choice, either kick the wife to the curb, like Kaine did, or take them in and seclude yourself with someone you know the cops say is lying about your kid, like Ronald Cummings did, because Misty had failed her lie detector tests as well, but Ron didnt believe the tests and felt that Mistys story wasnt sketchy at all, which it is, but he even married her 30 days after the child disappeared.

These cases are nothing alike except their significant others are lying about their children. Kaine Horman has done everything Ronald Cummings should have done.

jmo

 

[scotslass]

What could have propelled her to go this far?? Is the only answer Kaine was being a mean husband to her? It couldn't be mental illness, or a psychotic break? It couldn't be untreated postpartum depression?

These types of crimes never make sense, there is no rationalizing, but there are other options here other than Kaine being that super bad hubby. She had a car, she could have taken her child and left if this was the case at anytime, she was a stay at home Mom, there were plenty escape options for her.

Well going along with this line of thinking that TH did this To Kyron to soley destroy KH (and DY would just be a bonus), I'm having a hard time following that along with the profile that is being thrown around Needy, PpD, all about her, etc.

I would think if that is an accurate profile of TH then i personally would assume that she did this to keep KH in her life.( Trying to have him offed (MFH) either did not work, she abandoned that plan, Said it out of anger she said affair,( so thought she was going to lose him and would rather see him dead than leave) or it was never a real intention.
What if Th knew/thought she knew KH wanted out and was planning to leave her, possibly fight for custody of baby K and she would be out on her arse with nothing. No home , no job, no family and for the third time.

How would she make him stay? the baby isn't going to do it he will fight to take her. ( If KH leaves she loses Kyron automatically so perhaps in her mind this was a loss she was already living) and perhaps she had been trying all her other tactics (sex, going with the "sexting" behaviour ) with no joy. In some twisted way perhaps if something happened to Kyron, KH would then NEED her and her life could continue as TH being the nurturer (picking KH up after such a loss) mother to her daughter, keep her home, her income and most of all have KH close to her and almost dependant as she would have carried him through the most horrific part of his life, DY couldn't touch that and she would have no more ties to the family after Kyron is gone.

So yes a plan to destroy KH but not for hate but because she NEEDED him and this was a way she thought it could work.

IDK Just some thoughts....

 

[Chablis]

Well going along with this line of thinking that TH did this To Kyron to soley destroy KH (and DY would just be a bonus), I'm having a hard time following that along with the profile that is being thrown around Needy, PpD, all about her, etc.

I would think if that is an accurate profile of TH then i personally would assume that she did this to keep KH in her life.( Trying to have him offed (MFH) either did not work, she abandoned that plan, Said it out of anger she said affair,( so thought she was going to lose him and would rather see him dead than leave) or it was never a real intention.
What if Th knew/thought she knew KH wanted out and was planning to leave her, possibly fight for custody of baby K and she would be out on her arse with nothing. No home , no job, no family and for the third time.

How would she make him stay? the baby isn't going to do it he will fight to take her. ( If KH leaves she loses Kyron automatically so perhaps in her mind this was a loss she was already living) and perhaps she had been trying all her other tactics (sex, going with the "sexting" behaviour ) with no joy. In some twisted way perhaps if something happened to Kyron, KH would then NEED her and her life could continue as TH being the nurturer (picking KH up after such a loss) mother to her daughter, keep her home, her income and most of all have KH close to her and almost dependant as she would have carried him through the most horrific part of his life, DY couldn't touch that and she would have no more ties to the family after Kyron is gone.

So yes a plan to destroy KH but not for hate but because she NEEDED him and this was a way she thought it could work.

IDK Just some thoughts....

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense actually. I just wonder when it jumps from, maybe she wanted him dead because she found out he was going to leave her, but changed her mind to wanting to keep him by killing his child, but who knows what some peoples minds think? I truly think she snapped mentally.

 

[mmmagique]

why do people say Kaine is a control freak?

He went through Terri's drinking; bought her a stang; she's a stay at home mom who does whatever she wants.

How is that being a control freak?

I'm a stay at home mom who is spoiled monetarily, but I'd still say my husband is a control freak. *lol* (and yes, I have more cocktails than he would like as well...)

Unless you're in someone's home, you never really know what goes on in private.

 

[bessie]

Poor Kaine. Maybe he feels if he was killed in the MFH plot, Kyron would have gone back to live FT with his biological mother, Desiree, and would have been safe from TH.

I'm not sure what KH is thinking, but that's probably at least part of his rationale. The MFH plot occurred first -- whether the allegation is true or not doesn't matter here because Kaine believes it -- so it would seem the intent was to hurt him. If she had succeeded there would have been no reason to hurt Kyron. But even if she still had intentions of hurting Kyron, he would be with Desiree, who would in all likelihood have been suspicious of Terri and not allowed unsupervised visits.

As one who's survived the deaths of several close loved ones and made many "if/then" statements after each one which in retrospect didn't always seem logical, I find nothing remarkable about Kaine's statement.

 

[Sherbie]

(Just jumping off your post, Donjeta.)

As for me, I value debs' posts not b/c I expect everyone to hold off until trial or conviction, but, b/c, in the interest of "innocent until proven guilty," it's useful for me to have a few people challenging the prevalent opinion of guilt. It just makes for a fuller discussion, for my tastes.

As useless as the discussion would be without suspects, it would also be useless, IMO, to have everyone just agreeing on what a horrible person TMH is without any dissension or questioning, if that makes sense.

Vive la différence!


(MOO, naturally.)

I agree! I love that at this site, we have diversity of opinion and civil debate -- it's part of what sets us apart from many other sites. Bouncing ideas back and forth helps us get to the truth many times by allowing us to further examine our own opinions and either reaffirm them or even change our viewpoint. We have the best group here, and I value everyone's input, regardless whether I agree with a particular position.

I think at this point Kaine is absolutely lost and feels utterly helpless. Talking about things, throwing anything out there he can think of -- even seemingly trivial or irrelevant info -- in the hopes that some of it somehow touches someone who knows anything about Kyron's disappearance (either by putting pressure on them or by hoping against hope that it stirs their heart to do the right thing).

Does he sometimes seem to vent a little and toss things out there that might seem a bit snarky or unnecessary? Sure he does, but he is emotionally raw and just not in a place to self-censor real well right now. I'm sure there is a lot more he'd love to let loose with, but can't.

I'm just glad we have a place where we can talk about what we feel everything means and to disagree in a civil way when we don't see eye to eye. We all have good intentions and ultimately all want the same thing -- justice for victims!
:seeya:

 

[debs]

What could have propelled her to go this far?? Is the only answer Kaine was being a mean husband to her? It couldn't be mental illness, or a psychotic break? It couldn't be untreated postpartum depression?

These types of crimes never make sense, there is no rationalizing, but there are other options here other than Kaine being that super bad hubby. She had a car, she could have taken her child and left if this was the case at anytime, she was a stay at home Mom, there were plenty escape options for her.

As far as I know, she has not been charged with doing anything. Yet.

 

[nursebeeme]

I agree! I love that at this site, we have diversity of opinion and civil debate -- it's part of what sets us apart from many other sites. Bouncing ideas back and forth helps us get to the truth many times by allowing us to further examine our own opinions and either reaffirm them or even change our viewpoint. We have the best group here, and I value everyone's input, regardless whether I agree with a particular position.

I think at this point Kaine is absolutely lost and feels utterly helpless. Talking about things, throwing anything out there he can think of -- even seemingly trivial or irrelevant info -- in the hopes that some of it somehow touches someone who knows anything about Kyron's disappearance (either by putting pressure on them or by hoping against hope that it stirs their heart to do the right thing).

Does he sometimes seem to vent a little and toss things out there that might seem a bit snarky or unnecessary? Sure he does, but he is emotionally raw and just not in a place to self-censor real well right now. I'm sure there is a lot more he'd love to let loose with, but can't.

I'm just glad we have a place where we can talk about what we feel everything means and to disagree in a civil way when we don't see eye to eye. We all have good intentions and ultimately all want the same thing -- justice for victims!
:seeya:

we need two more buttons:
1) thanks
2) thanks is not enough

because I would click on both of them for this post.
(as well as Duck's that you were responding to)

 

[Billylee]

snipped

Up to this point I have always been there in that capacity. Anything bad that happens to him, I wish I could shoulder it for him, [that] I could take it away from him. I wish it would come to me instead of him. It just didn&#8217;t go that way this time, and I really wish it would have.

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/29/kyron-horman-update-kaines-feelings-about-decision-to-marry-stepmom/


I wonder what "bad" things KH might be referring to and if something has happened in the past when he says it didn't go that way "this time". I wonder what he was referring to, or is that just some kind of general statement. The this time, makes it sounds like something has happened before.