KC defense team.What now?

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Dateline just showed a clip of Conway saying: If you murdered your child are you going to put her body a few houses away? OOOOboy here we go again spin cycle.

IMO, yes they will. And it gets annoying. But until trial...even until KC's death...there will be people who will spin this reasonable doubt....can't do anything about it.

There are people on this very Caylee forum who are very likely floating various plausible theories of reasonable doubt to test potential jurors....arguing, debating, etc only proves to them these theories may work.

I don't have to be told how foolish I am in my belief that the jurors will convict her and NO AMOUNT of hocus pocus, "gotcha" sound bites, etc will overcome common sense. And that is their biggest fear, is that jurors will act with common sense. Then, they go write books, go on talk shows, teach at law schools about how the system failed because there's no defense for 'common sense"
 
Anyone see the film Runaway Jury?
The tagline for the film is:
Trials are too important to be decided by juries.

go do a search on the net - search for: defense attorney's job is to create reasonable doubt
You will be surprised how many attorney sites say this on their website.
 
There was never any means discovered or given in Scott Peterson's trial.

Common sense will tell this jury that Caylee's murder was deliberate, premeditate, why? Becuase if it had been an accident, she would have been grieving. She would have lost weight...she would have been a basket case.

Listen to any of her interviews or comments, cool as a cucumber and rather annoyed at the inconvenience of so many questions.

The pictures of her partying tell the story. She's having a blast, not a care in the world.

The smell in her car, the computer searches, destroying all pictures of Caylee...

Not the actions of someone who "accidently" murdered her child. No doubt much more will come out.
 
Correct. And accident is apart from homicide.

I have always believed this was an accident with a bizarre cover-up.

The ME has access to a wealth of investigative information that we do not have. She indicated that the remains did not yield anything conclusive regarding cause of death. However, she used crime scene evidence and circumstantial evidence to determine the cause of death was homicide. I am assuming "accidental" was an alternative cause.

Directed at Wudge (who's opinion I value greatly): what crime scene evidence or circumstantial evidence might there be for the ME to note homicide as the cause of death rather than accidental?
 
I can not venture a guess at a defense as long as the garbage bag, hair samples and tape evidence test results have not been released.

Who would dump the murdered body of their child so close to home? I don't know, ask KC! Last I heard, stupid isn't a defense.
 
I can not venture a guess at a defense as long as the garbage bag, hair samples and tape evidence test results have not been released.

Who would dump the murdered body of their child so close to home? I don't know, ask KC! Last I heard, stupid isn't a defense.

According to the FBI, most mothers who kill their young children leave the body very close to home.
 
There was never any means discovered or given in Scott Peterson's trial.

Common sense will tell this jury that Caylee's murder was deliberate, premeditate, why? Becuase if it had been an accident, she would have been grieving. She would have lost weight...she would have been a basket case.

Listen to any of her interviews or comments, cool as a cucumber and rather annoyed at the inconvenience of so many questions.

The pictures of her partying tell the story. She's having a blast, not a care in the world.

The smell in her car, the computer searches, destroying all pictures of Caylee...

Not the actions of someone who "accidently" murdered her child. No doubt much more will come out.

I agree, the largest thing however will be the fact that it took 31 days for anyone to find out about Caylee:confused:
 
"Dr G. stated that there was no post-mortem trauma to the skeleton."

No, no. She said there was no ANTE-MORTEM trauma. That is the term for BEFORE death. Listen to it again. She clearly says ante-mortem.
 
No she didn't.

But the ME also hasn't ruled out trauma.....blunt trauma or any trauma except after -death- trauma..

Dr G. stated that there was no post-mortem trauma to the skeleton.

That is all she said about trauma.

She did not address whether there is or isn't evidence of pre-death trauma.

We really need the evidence, to rule things out.

jmho


Respectfully, she said "ante-mortem," which means there was no trauma to the bones before death. She did not comment on the condition of the bones after death--which means there may be animal bite marks or such.
 
If KC stubbornly sticks by her nanny kidnapping story, does this mean that her attorney must continue with this line of defense? If so, her history of lying will really make it hard for them to establish reasonable doubt. If there was a possibility of a real ZFG (not the lady who visited the Sawgrass apartments), then the defense team should have been checking every ZFG in the country, getting a photo, and showing it to KC to see if she recognized one as the "nanny". Or, providing some hard evidence that Caylee was ever apart from her mother at the time she went missing.
 
The Zanny defense is suicidal. Caylee is dead, the danger is over. KC can "tell" on those kidnappers now, but hasn't.

Accidental death followed by PTSD? PTSD doesn't affect one's ability to tell the truth.
Accidental death, covering for someone else? Hardly. Not her MO.
Accidental death, panic and cover up? Her 31 day spree does not reflect any signs of panic, sadness, fear, anxiety or any other emotion a mother might have if her child had jsut died.

Temporary insanity? Not according to all her friends.

Dr. G. made the call of homicide, meaning the death was caused by another. Since she is the expert and has actually seen ALL of the evidence and understands all the forensic reports, has talked with LE, The Body Farm and the FBI, saw the car, the crime scene and knows more about this case than anyone I know, I am going to go with her opinion.

It will be interesting to see exactly how she determined homicide to be the manner of death. Add homicide to decomp in the trunk and it is easy to see who the killer is, it is the egg donor.
 
I think they will involve the meter reader, Vicky, Amy, CA, and just make a list of probably murderers until the jury has enough reasonable doubt. IMO it can be done. Alot of the stuff pointing to Casey, can be pointed at others, since it is circumstantial.
 
Anyone see the film Runaway Jury?
The tagline for the film is:
Trials are too important to be decided by juries.

go do a search on the net - search for: defense attorney's job is to create reasonable doubt
You will be surprised how many attorney sites say this on their website.

That IS the defense attorney's job. He doesn't have to prove anything. I've been a witness at a few trials. I've heard this opening statement so many effing times:

"This case is like a puzzle: so many pieces are missing, and scattered all about. The prosecution tonight will try to tell you what happened, but they lack the necessary pieces to make the puzzle make sense. Their evidence shows a vague image, but it doesnt show us what happened. blah blah blah puzzle pieces reasonable doubt bla blah puzzle blah blah reasonable doubt."

This is the American justice system. It's not perfect but it is the fairest, even if Casey gets away. You can't send someone to jail with this logic: "I'm not sure how she did it, but she did it!!! I know it in my gut."

The truth is, nobody saw her do it, there are no incriminating fingerprints (yet), they dont even know how she did it, she has no history of being violent or abusing caylee, and all the other evidence circumstantial. I don't think felony murder can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, even with the mounds and mounds of circumstantial evidence. Hope they prove me wrong.

IMO - they need some hard evidence to back the circumstantial. They need a clear timeline and they have to know exactly how she did it. Otherwise, when the prosecution creates doubt (theyre not sure how she did it) then they're doing the defense's job for them.
 
The only way I see KC saving herself in this is by talking. The state has not only massive circumstantial evidence- but at least enough forensic evidence to indict her before the body was even found.
When you consider that :
1. it was 31 days before reported
2. reported by grandma, not KC
3. the smell of the car
4. the nanny no one ever knew
5. the borrowed shovel:hand:
6. the computer searches
7. chloroform in the trunk
8. cell phone pings
9. erased photos of Caylee
10. poem about killing
11. the lies to LE about nanny, work,
12. refusal to speak to family members
13. nonstop partying and drinking while Caylee was missing
14. emails to men about Caylee being in the way
15. Lies about being in Jacksonville
16. telling Krisitine that calling was a huge waste.. as Kristine was crying over Caylee.
17. no emotion displayed for Caylee and her disappearance.
18. The proximity of the body to the A. home
19. The body was in KC's secret "hideout"
20. the 31 day nanny "script" expired 5 months ago
21. Caylee can no longer be harmed and still no truth from KC
22. She knew she was "close"
23. not being able to sleep in her room while on house arrest

Quite a list for the defense to refute.. and thats without forensics and other testimony. We talk about KC throwing everyone under the bus... but maybe it is her that will land under it. I cant imagine CA or GA or even LA going to prison for perjury if they can help it.

JB obviously doesnt have a good explanation, because the dream team wouldnt be needed if this was so easily explained.

I think Dr G is very well trained and reliable- she has nothing to gain by her findings, either way.
Many, many people have been convicted for less. Eye witnesses arent needed.
 
I can not venture a guess at a defense as long as the garbage bag, hair samples and tape evidence test results have not been released.

Who would dump the murdered body of their child so close to home? I don't know, ask KC! Last I heard, stupid isn't a defense.


KC words.... my gut feeling is that she is close to home.
 
I have always believed this was an accident with a bizarre cover-up.

The ME has access to a wealth of investigative information that we do not have. She indicated that the remains did not yield anything conclusive regarding cause of death. However, she used crime scene evidence and circumstantial evidence to determine the cause of death was homicide. I am assuming "accidental" was an alternative cause.

Directed at Wudge (who's opinion I value greatly): what crime scene evidence or circumstantial evidence might there be for the ME to note homicide as the cause of death rather than accidental?

First, please understand that in most localities LE and the M.E. are joined at the hip. Next, focus on the fact that either LE screwed up in a massive way when they did not find the bag in August or the meter man has more to him that just being lucky.

To get to the M.E's position of undetermined homicide, let's set aside any possibility that the meter man was somehow involved in a sinister way.

This leaves a skull with duct tape (allegedly) wrapped around it and a double bagged body and, allegedly, also some clothing. The integrity of the bags have been compromised and bones have been scattered across a wide area. Flesh and tissue seem not to be availaible -- but there might be some. An entomologist (bug guy) has been brought in to assess what the bugs around the area might be able to speak to. This is likely the bulk of site evidence available to the M.E.

However, outside of the site, LE is taking massive howitzer fire for not discovering the body in August.

Now, the M.E. comes up with homicide from an undetermined cause. Unless the M.E. was able to totally cancel out death by accident or death from misfortune, they cannot logically move to homicide without some evidence to support that finding (except as a guess). However, from what the M.E. has said, there does not seem to be any such evidence and toxicology reports seem not to yet be available.

My suspicion is that the M.E. simply tried to lay down some cover fire for LE's screw-up by issuing a finding of "undetermined homicide". My further suspicion is that on the witness stand, the M.E. will reveal that they used reduction (it was likely not this, it was likley not that) or fuzzy logic to back into their "undetermined homicide" position.

As regards what evidence at the scene might support the M.E's position, is it possible that they found a chloroform bottle in the area? Yes. Is it possible that the clothing was blood stained? Yes. Is it possible that there was a rope found around the neck? Yes. Is it possible that there was a blood stained knife in the area? Yes.

It's possible the M.E, has more evidence to support their position than they are revealing. However, if they had any such evidence, the best way to protect LE would be to reveal it. But that did not happen.

During cross-examination, my expectation is that the M.E. will watch a defense attorney slowly pick their bones clean. It's a price an expert pays for "guessing".
 
Respectfully, she said "ante-mortem," which means there was no trauma to the bones before death. She did not comment on the condition of the bones after death--which means there may be animal bite marks or such.

she kinda hinted it...then realized and backed off
 
I think they will involve the meter reader, Vicky, Amy, CA, and just make a list of probably murderers until the jury has enough reasonable doubt. IMO it can be done. Alot of the stuff pointing to Casey, can be pointed at others, since it is circumstantial.

Circumstantial evidence is a theory which is substantiated by some corroborating evidence. The more corraborating evidence there is, the more this supports the prosocution's theory, and gives the defense less opportunity to drum up reasonable doubt. LE is accumulating a huge amount of corraborating evidence. Circumstantial evidence does not mean it's a flimsy case.

The defense team will introduce any and every form of possible hole in this theory they can think of. If they thought it might introduce doubt, the defense team would say that little green men from the planet Zenida ("zannies") kidnapped and murdered Caylee. :twocents:
 
Dateline just showed a clip of Conway saying: If you murdered your child are you going to put her body a few houses away? OOOOboy here we go again spin cycle.
------------------------

I would call that using reverse psychology.
 
If KC stubbornly sticks by her nanny kidnapping story, does this mean that her attorney must continue with this line of defense? If so, her history of lying will really make it hard for them to establish reasonable doubt. If there was a possibility of a real ZFG (not the lady who visited the Sawgrass apartments), then the defense team should have been checking every ZFG in the country, getting a photo, and showing it to KC to see if she recognized one as the "nanny". Or, providing some hard evidence that Caylee was ever apart from her mother at the time she went missing.

they will fight this by saying that it was the NANNY that created the ZFG name for herself and lied to KC about her background...so really the NANNY could be anyone...impossible to prove that she does not exist...It is a scientific impossibility to prove that something does not exist.. it can't be done! It's like trying to prove that unicorns DO NOT exist or bigfoot or aliens. So they think they have it figured out.
 
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