Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 # 2

[less0305]

and the judge found probable cause. Your point?

And the judge had his mind made up evidenced by the fact that he said the hearing was over, and almost stood up to leave when the defense attorney politely asked the judge was he not going to hear arguments. The judge laughed, "oh yeah, you want to make an argument? By all means, go ahead." The defense did make an argument - not that the sheriff should be excused and sent free, but that the snippet of the video did not include what led up to the shooting and it, in his opinion, was not first degree, but rather a lesser degree. Judge quickly stated his decision to go forward with first degree and closed the hearing.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

In terms of the speculations that the wife and daughter might have turned to the judge for help in a divorce/dv type situation:

I really wonder if they would have been likely to turn to one of MS's closest friends -- wouldn't they have worried the judge might clue MS in to their plans?

It seems more likely to me they would have turned to the other law enforcement system in town -- the Whitesburg, KY city police department.

I'm sure in a small town where everyone knows everyone, there are strong connections between the city police dept. and the county sheriff's office, but if the judge and sheriff were really that close buddies, the city police would seem (to me) a more neutral place to turn for help.

This makes me think it's less about DV/divorce and more about something personal with the judge and the daughter.

MOO

 

[less0305]

Technically, Stines was being sued as the sheriff and “Unknown supervisors of Ben Fields” were the John Does listed in the lawsuit. It’s, imo, a pretty typical strategy to include the supervisors to try and get the county to fork over money because it’s fairly reasonable to assume Fields doesn’t have the type of compensation being sought. Even if the supervisors weren’t necessarily at fault by any reasonable means, there’s a high likelihood of settling the lawsuit for a decent amount of money.

This is not to say that I think her lawsuit is frivolous; far from it. The attorney is just strategizing to get their client the best compensation possible.

JMO

Yes, absolutely. Almost all of those lawsuits are filed against the city or county and they name individuals such as the offending party and the sheriff or police chief - they will argue the employee wasn't properly trained and usually win on that very issue because once they drag into court all the training records, it shows that a lot of agencies don't have enough funds to train every employee annually in every scenario that can possibly occur. Cities and counties generally settle the lawsuit. Most, if not all, agencies have insurance companies and the settlements are generally paid by the insurance.

 

[Elley Mae]

I understand the sheriff's department protects the courthouse, but there are protected areas within that building that deputies just don't have unfettered access to. Much like a judge wouldn't have access to an evidence room at the law enforcement agency. Sorry, but having court clerk friends and working in law enforcement, judge's offices are usually no access. In our agencies the only other person who had a key to the chief's office was the city clerk. My long-time court clerk friend is the only person other than the judge's who has keys to those offices. Just my info and opinion. But I'm not here to argue. I just think there is something more sinister going on and, even though I agree the Sheriff should have never shot the Judge and I do agree he should go to jail - but I want the whole truth to come out.

Ben Fields, who was a court security officer for the sheriff ’s office and worked a side job for monitoring company Eastern Kentucky Correctional Services, was sentenced last week to seven years total, with six and a half of that to be spent on probation.

Fields was indicted on seven felony counts and one misdemeanor. The criminal charges followed a lawsuit filed by two women in March 2022, both former inmates in the Letcher County Jail, where Fields worked as a deputy jailer before being hired by the sheriff’s office.

Ex-deputy sheriff is sentenced; one victim tells of ‘nightmares’ - The Mountain Eagle

A former Letcher County deputy sheriff who pleaded guilty to raping a female prisoner who was on home incarceration will spend six months in the Letcher County Jail, where he formerly worked as a deputy jailer. Ben Fields, who was a court security officer for the sheriff ’s office and worked a...

www.themountaineagle.com

She also alleged that a male relative of Fields, who he introduced to her, also coerced her to have sex with him because he “had pull with the court.” She said that she talked to Fields on Facebook Messenger, but the other man never sent her any messages. He wasn’t charged because she had no proof.

Adkins said she believes that man is still doing to same thing to other women because she went to court for a hearing on a charge of driving under the influence and saw him sitting in the gallery whispering to another female defendant with his arm around her.

 

[less0305]

In terms of the speculations that the wife and daughter might have turned to the judge for help in a divorce/dv type situation:

I really wonder if they would have been likely to turn to one of MS's closest friends -- wouldn't they have worried the judge might clue MS in to their plans?

It seems more likely to me they would have turned to the other law enforcement system in town -- the Whitesburg, KY city police department.

I'm sure in a small town where everyone knows everyone, there are strong connections between the city police dept. and the county sheriff's office, but if the judge and sheriff were really that close buddies, the city police would seem (to me) a more neutral place to turn for help.

This makes me think it's less about DV/divorce and more about something personal with the judge and the daughter.

MOO

Agree - also, I read that they all went to the same church. Hope the church isn't involved in all this.

 

[Soulmagent]

Agree - also, I read that they all went to the same church. Hope the church isn't involved in all this.

I am Sure he is consoling his followers.

 

[IceIce9]

Growing up in the south I’ve often heard lunch referred to has dinner. It’s often used for an after church meal which is usually just after 12pm but called “Sunday dinner”.

I’ve frequently worked in rural areas in several midwestern states and farmers usually have their main meal at noon, “Dinner.” A lighter meal in the evening is “supper”

I grew up in the city and my parents always called the noon meal on Sundays “Sunday Dinner.”

 

[m00c0w]

And the judge had his mind made up evidenced by the fact that he said the hearing was over, and almost stood up to leave when the defense attorney politely asked the judge was he not going to hear arguments. The judge laughed, "oh yeah, you want to make an argument? By all means, go ahead." The defense did make an argument - not that the sheriff should be excused and sent free, but that the snippet of the video did not include what led up to the shooting and it, in his opinion, was not first degree, but rather a lesser degree. Judge quickly stated his decision to go forward with first degree and closed the hearing.

To be fair, probable cause is probable cause. They have a video of the shooting, with the defendant being the one very clearly committing the shooting. There may be some way to “justify” the shooting or plea towards jury nullification later, but there’s not a whole lot one can argue to escape the very low threshold of probable cause in that instance. I’m not sure the judge was biased as much as surprised because the PC is pretty inescapable and other arguments are best saved for trial.

JMO

 

[Soulmagent]

I’ve frequently worked in rural areas in several midwestern states and farmers usually have their main meal at noon, “Dinner.” A lighter meal in the evening is “supper”

I grew up in the city and my parents always called the noon meal on Sundays “Sunday Dinner.”

I took the search for supPer to the bible. IT DIDNT HELP . Supper was only called super on certain days / occasions in my young Baptist life. I have no idea ,but no one I currently have meals with says anything of supper. So this life confusion I am pretty sure will correct itself and the historians of the future will wonder why we all went to super and why we dropped that p. like M&m did on his diddy dis cd...

 

[detectivewannab]

This is confusing.

 

[IceIce9]

I took the search for supPer to the bible. IT DIDNT HELP . Supper was only called super on certain days / occasions in my young Baptist life. I have no idea ,but no one I currently have meals with says anything of supper. So this life confusion I am pretty sure will correct itself and the historians of the future will wonder why we all went to super and why we dropped that p. like M&m did on his diddy dis cd...

The word supper comes from the Old French word souper, which means "evening meal". Souper is derived from a verb that means "to eat or serve a meal". The word supper is related to the word "sup", which is also the root of the word "soup“

From a quick google search

 

[housewife]

In terms of the speculations that the wife and daughter might have turned to the judge for help in a divorce/dv type situation:

I really wonder if they would have been likely to turn to one of MS's closest friends -- wouldn't they have worried the judge might clue MS in to their plans?

It seems more likely to me they would have turned to the other law enforcement system in town -- the Whitesburg, KY city police department.

I'm sure in a small town where everyone knows everyone, there are strong connections between the city police dept. and the county sheriff's office, but if the judge and sheriff were really that close buddies, the city police would seem (to me) a more neutral place to turn for help.

This makes me think it's less about DV/divorce and more about something personal with the judge and the daughter.

MOO

Right? I thought maybe the wife and daughter reached out to the judge to discuss hubby's behavior on the DL, ask him to get his best friend to try therapy or something,
but that's probably a stretch. The kidnapping statement led me to this theory.

If not DV, unfortunately could be sexual motive. I think the sheriff's family said no abuse had taken place. IMHO the judge had slid into his BFF's daughter's DMs and possibly was grooming her. Private texts/messages to a minor shouldn't be happening at all.

I wonder how her number was stored in the phone. Was she saved as "babysitter" or "Pizza Hut"?

How old was Kimberly when she got married?

 

[Vegasgrl]

Rational or not, part of the motive seams to be fear for his family, or fear of losing his family. After Stines had the proof he needed (phones), he acted swiftly. He reportedly didn't ask to meet his friend, the judge, in private. The judge offered privacy and his phone when Stines requested. That phone was a confirmed huge betrayal (in his mind) - and he lost it. We'll know soon enough what Stines confirmed in chambers.

 

[Chimera]

Not unusual at all, ime. The Sheriff’s department protects the courthouse. They have access to all of the rooms, as well as video footage.

Bbm.
Hmmmm....

 

[cujenn81]

I grew up in a very small, southern town with a population of roughly 6,000 — which is like NYC compared to this place. Nevertheless, it was still very small and the whole town knew everybody’s business… at least, they thought they did.

Vicious and mean spirited rumors can be dogged and unshakeable in a small town. I’ve seen rumors created by jealous or bored teenagers, men, and women that have utterly destroyed relationships, families, and lifelong friendships. And the people who know the least always have the most to say.

Just something to keep in mind.

 

[Luna20]

At what point did he see the judge’s phone? He came around the corner and started shooting so had he looked at it previously?

What was in that briefcase type thing?

 

[Soulmagent]

At what point did he see the judge’s phone? He came around the corner and started shooting so had he looked at it previously?

What was in that briefcase type thing?

According to court preceddings he was sitting at first , wonder why he fled into that corner?

 

[housewife]

Sorry, didn't mean to be abrupt or short but I tend to use both terms interchangeably to describe the following:

A preliminary hearing, also called a “probable cause hearing,” is an adversarial proceeding conducted by a judge or magistrate (and not a jury) to determine if the prosecution has enough evidence to go to trial.The hearing is limited to the specific issue at hand, in which both sides present evidence and arguments regarding the disputed issue of fact or law. The judge does not give a verdict on whether the defendant is guilty.
preliminary hearing

But the prelim happens before the grand jury indicts, right? They are two separate events with different legal ramifications?