Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 # 2

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Friday Fan said:
The judge had the daughter's number in his phone. This means that he had likely spoken with her previously.


But I don't know how he makes the leap that "they're trying to kidnap my wife and my kid" and shooting the judge until he was obviously dead. (4 or 5 times) He shot him twice and shot him three more times until he stopped moving.
Stines wanted the judge dead.

Obviously there is no evidence that his wife and kid are being kidnapped.


It goes to show you, the dangers involved when "settling things as friends and/or friend of the bench". MOO Stine was afforded the privilege because he was the sheriff.
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We don't know yet what was or wasn't in or on the judge's phone, do we? I think the Sheriff could have put his daughter's number in the judges phone and dialed that way. Maybe there was testimony from yesterday that indicated her number was saved in the judge's phone, and I missed it??

Obviously, something upsetting to the Sheriff was on the judge's phone, but I don't think we know yet what that was.
 
RANCH said:
Good point.

It would have been helpful if the defense attorney had asked the detective if the phone number was found in the phones contacts or only as a recent call. JMO.
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I got the feeling that defense didn't want to discuss the details of the daughter's phone number and being in the judge's phone, just wanted to make the point that call and whatever was on the judge's phone lead to the shooting. JMO
 
Wallendo said:
Many have spoken about this being a small town and everybody knowing everything. If that is the case, the "sex for lenient treatment" scam should have been well known. Since young women don't commit most of the violent crimes in small town, it is quite likely that most, if not all, of the female victims were incarcerated for drug-related crimes. The judge seems to have had a special interest in drug treatment, and many in the community spoke highly of this. Maybe this is a coincidence, maybe it is not. Did women who "agreed" to coerced sexual activity get better deals in court? Did they get preferential treatment form the sheriff? Maybe the sheriff and judge knew nothing about these events.

It is just hard to imagine that word did not get out around town that having sex with the deputy might lead to better treatment.

I do not know any of the people involved in this case. I do know that 20 years ago, I thought Bill Cosby was an all-around nice guy.
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There are only two "criminal courts" in the county.

Judge Mullins handled misdemeanors.
The other judge (circuit judge) handled felonies.

Since there are only two judges in the county, Letcher County it would fall open Mullins to handle most of the drug misdemeanors such as possession etc. Most court systems in the US now have diversion programs. It isn't unique to Mullins. The program was created by the Commonwealth of Kentucky.
The program was created during the last session of the General Assembly by Senate Bill 90, and Letcher was one of 11 counties in the state chosen to participate.

Treatment can replace time in jail for some in Letcher County - The Mountain Eagle

Letcher County kicked off participation in a pilot program to release some people with behavioral health problems from jail and send them to treatment programs instead. The program was created during the last session of the General Assembly by Senate Bill 90, and Letcher was one of 11 counties...
www.themountaineagle.com www.themountaineagle.com
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In an older local article about the civil suit, the deputy is also accused having sex with a victim in the courthouse elevator and his car. So, it wasn't just in the judge's chambers. As a matter of fact, this non-paywalled local article does not mention which judge's chamber were involved and Fields was working as a court security officer at the time.

Fields was criminally convicted in at-home sex for ankle bracelet scam.

I'm pretty much convinced that killing Mullins had nothing to do with the ongoings with Fields. Sheriffs are frequently involved in civil suits involving inmates etc. Stines appeared to have promptly fired the deputy.
Fields was accused of having sex with _____ in his car, in the district judge’s office, and in an elevator at the Letcher County Courthouse.

Ex-deputy sheriff is sentenced; one victim tells of ‘nightmares’ - The Mountain Eagle

A former Letcher County deputy sheriff who pleaded guilty to raping a female prisoner who was on home incarceration will spend six months in the Letcher County Jail, where he formerly worked as a deputy jailer. Ben Fields, who was a court security officer for the sheriff ’s office and worked a...
www.themountaineagle.com www.themountaineagle.com
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bestill said:
I got the feeling that defense didn't want to discuss the details of the daughter's phone number and being in the judge's phone, just wanted to make the point that call and whatever was on the judge's phone lead to the shooting. JMO
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I guess that could be it.

I would hope that the defense attorney knew if the number was in the phones contact list by asking his client. If the answer was no it wasn't, the sheriff entered the number himself, it wouldn't help him as much. JMO.
 
RANCH said:
I guess that could be it.

I would hope that the defense attorney knew if the number was in the phones contact list by asking his client. If the answer was no it wasn't, the sheriff entered the number himself, it wouldn't help him as much. JMO.
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I'm curious about the point that defense attorney made about the social media apps too. Another suggestion that has been made, if the number was saved as a contact what name was used.
JMO
 
sunshineray said:
What in the world did he mean by someone was "trying to kidnap his wife and kid"!? Was it said in the context of being an analogy? What would be that analogy?

"Stamper testified Stines requested to see the judge’s phone and then attempted to call his daughter from Mullins’s phone."

Stines tried to call his daughter's phone from the judge's phone (did the judge have her number in his phone!?) and seconds later stood up and shot him dead. And LE hasn't confiscated the daughter's phone yet!? Why ever not?

"Stamper testified based on preliminary information, the judge arranged a private meeting in his chambers with Stines."

It was the judge who asked Stines in for a private meeting in his chambers?

As you can see, I'm totally confused by this article. Wow, just Wow.
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^^bbm

Having had a couple of days to digest the information, I think this was one hearsay comment that Clayton Stamper may have gotten wrong.

In full context, we know that Stines was said to be calm and only concerned about being treated fairly when he was actually seen by Stamper following the shooting. It doesn't follow that if Stines believed his wife and child were the targets of a kidnapping that he would have stopped with Mullins, or been calm after the shooting! IMO, I think the hearsay reference was probably more likely something to the effect that Stines thought he was losing his wife and kid and not that this involved a "kidnapping."

Reportedly, Stines had not been acting his normal self weeks prior to the shooting, and told a local reporter he was not commenting on the Sheriffs FB page out of fear of negative posts. Also said he'd lost a considerable amount of weight in a short period and couldn't explain why. These all seem to me to be hallmarks of extreme stress and paranoia-- which could also be making him difficult to live with. Today, I'm more curious than ever whether or not there had been recent talk of a separation or divorce.

As one of his closest and best friends, I can see a situation where Stines family would have confided in Judge Mullins that things were not right with Mickey at home, and changes were about to happen. A paranoid Stines could have believed if Mullins was aiding in the legal separation of his wife and child, the ultimate betrayal.

I don't recall a more tragic case. Two men, each with the support and respect of their community, left in disbelief when one guns the other down-- following a routine lunch!
MOO

ETA: Mullins had known the Sheriff's daughter her entire life. Her dad was his bailiff for 14 years until he became the Sheriff. In a town of only 1700, I don't think it so strange he'd have her phone number. She may have even been instructed from an early age to call Mullins if dad or mom not available. (Example-- CBS Blue Bloods. If Lenny Ross' daughter's number was saved in Frank Reagan's phone, would you assume something nefarious going on between the Police Commissioner and Lenny's kid)?
 
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Seattle1 said:
^^bbm

Having had a couple of days to digest the information, I think this was one hearsay comment that Clayton Stamper may have gotten wrong.

In full context, we know that Stines was said to be calm and only concerned about being treated fairly when he was actually seen by Stamper following the shooting. It doesn't follow that if Stines believed his wife and child were the targets of a kidnapping that he would have stopped with Mullins, or been calm after the shooting! IMO, I think the hearsay reference was probably more likely something to the effect that Stines thought he was losing his wife and kid and not that this involved a "kidnapping."

Reportedly, Stines had not been acting his normal self weeks prior to the shooting, and told a local reporter he was not commenting on the Sheriffs FB page out of fear of negative posts. Also said he'd lost a considerable amount of weight in a short period and couldn't explain why. These all seem to me to be hallmarks of extreme stress and paranoia-- which could also be making him difficult to live with. Today, I'm more curious than ever whether or not there had been recent talk of a separation or divorce.

As one of his closest and best friends, I can see a situation where Stines family would have confided in Judge Mullins that things were not right with Mickey at home, and changes were about to happen. A paranoid Stines could have believed if Mullins was aiding in the legal separation of his wife and child, the ultimate betrayal.

I don't recall a more tragic case. Two men, each with the support and respect of their community, left in disbelief when one guns the other down-- following a routine lunch!
MOO

ETA: Mullins had known the Sheriff's daughter her entire life. Her dad was his bailiff for 14 years until he became the Sheriff. In a town of only 1700, I don't think it so strange he'd have her phone number. She may have even been instructed from an early age to call Mullins if dad or mom not available.
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Hi Seattle 1,
Could you please provide links to MSM where you learned about these things?
Thanks
 
Seattle1 said:
^^bbm

Having had a couple of days to digest the information, I think this was one hearsay comment that Clayton Stamper may have gotten wrong.

In full context, we know that Stines was said to be calm and only concerned about being treated fairly when he was actually seen by Stamper following the shooting. It doesn't follow that if Stines believed his wife and child were the targets of a kidnapping that he would have stopped with Mullins, or been calm after the shooting! IMO, I think the hearsay reference was probably more likely something to the effect that Stines thought he was losing his wife and kid and not that this involved a "kidnapping."

Reportedly, Stines had not been acting his normal self weeks prior to the shooting, and told a local reporter he was not commenting on the Sheriffs FB page out of fear of negative posts. Also said he'd lost a considerable amount of weight in a short period and couldn't explain why. These all seem to me to be hallmarks of extreme stress and paranoia-- which could also be making him difficult to live with. Today, I'm more curious than ever whether or not there had been recent talk of a separation or divorce.

As one of his closest and best friends, I can see a situation where Stines family would have confided in Judge Mullins that things were not right with Mickey at home, and changes were about to happen. A paranoid Stines could have believed if Mullins was aiding in the legal separation of his wife and child, the ultimate betrayal.

I don't recall a more tragic case. Two men, each with the support and respect of their community, left in disbelief when one guns the other down-- following a routine lunch!
MOO

ETA: Mullins had known the Sheriff's daughter her entire life. Her dad was his bailiff for 14 years until he became the Sheriff. In a town of only 1700, I don't think it so strange he'd have her phone number. She may have even been instructed from an early age to call Mullins if dad or mom not available.
Click to expand...

Sheriff lived in McRoberts, Kentucky Mullins lived in Jenkins, Kentucky
 
IANAL- nor do I have anything to base this on-

But hypothetically if there were some unsavory things going on in the county, which involved multiple layers of law enforcement, perhaps even a judge and deputies, and if there was perhaps an open secret about what those things might be, and if a sheriff got pushed too far and took matters into his own hand…

AND if someone wanted to make it just GO AWAY, protect certain innocent or not so innocent people and keep things private, letting mountain justice take care of it, and had the power to do it…

I could imagine a scenario where a person might be over charged, leave a lot of unanswered questions during an investigation, not allow for a lesser charge to be considered by the Grand Jury, and then have the GJ either fail to return an indictment for murder one, and or set things up so that getting acquitted is likely at trial -

Not suggesting that’s what happened or is happening, or that it’s a good idea-

just thinking of scenarios that account for the totality of the ODD data/information available about the events that have occurred to date

In my experience rural small town Deep South and Appalachia (and FL/TX) have different ways of handling things sometimes- and I could see a scenario where the “outsiders” might not ever get the details … MOO
 
Seattle1 said:
Yes, it was clear to me that the defense was trying to raise "extreme emotional disturbance," the exception to first degree murder, per the statute, just as witness Clayton Stamper was doing all he could muster to shield the prosecution's charge of first degree murder.

Click to expand...
Maybe everyone agrees that it was extreme “emotional disturbance” and yet no one wants it to go to trial - so no exception, or lesser charge considered, and then no indictment and no trial- perhaps that’s what getting “treated fair” might look like-

Not saying it’s right - or is what’s happening, but if it was - it could explain some things -

IANAL MOO
 
Seattle1 said:
^^bbm

Having had a couple of days to digest the information, I think this was one hearsay comment that Clayton Stamper may have gotten wrong.

In full context, we know that Stines was said to be calm and only concerned about being treated fairly when he was actually seen by Stamper following the shooting. It doesn't follow that if Stines believed his wife and child were the targets of a kidnapping that he would have stopped with Mullins, or been calm after the shooting! IMO, I think the hearsay reference was probably more likely something to the effect that Stines thought he was losing his wife and kid and not that this involved a "kidnapping."

Reportedly, Stines had not been acting his normal self weeks prior to the shooting, and told a local reporter he was not commenting on the Sheriffs FB page out of fear of negative posts. Also said he'd lost a considerable amount of weight in a short period and couldn't explain why. These all seem to me to be hallmarks of extreme stress and paranoia-- which could also be making him difficult to live with. Today, I'm more curious than ever whether or not there had been recent talk of a separation or divorce.

As one of his closest and best friends, I can see a situation where Stines family would have confided in Judge Mullins that things were not right with Mickey at home, and changes were about to happen. A paranoid Stines could have believed if Mullins was aiding in the legal separation of his wife and child, the ultimate betrayal.

I don't recall a more tragic case. Two men, each with the support and respect of their community, left in disbelief when one guns the other down-- following a routine lunch!
MOO

ETA: Mullins had known the Sheriff's daughter her entire life. Her dad was his bailiff for 14 years until he became the Sheriff. In a town of only 1700, I don't think it so strange he'd have her phone number. She may have even been instructed from an early age to call Mullins if dad or mom not available. (Example-- CBS Blue Bloods. If Lenny Ross' daughter's number was saved in Frank Reagan's phone, would you assume something nefarious going on between the Police Commissioner and Lenny's kid)?
Click to expand...
Obviously something was not ok. Clearly using the Judge's phone to call the daughter revealed something. I am guessing that it may have been how/where that number was in his contacts that was a problem.
 
Seattle1 said:
^^bbm

Having had a couple of days to digest the information, I think this was one hearsay comment that Clayton Stamper may have gotten wrong.

In full context, we know that Stines was said to be calm and only concerned about being treated fairly when he was actually seen by Stamper following the shooting. It doesn't follow that if Stines believed his wife and child were the targets of a kidnapping that he would have stopped with Mullins, or been calm after the shooting! IMO, I think the hearsay reference was probably more likely something to the effect that Stines thought he was losing his wife and kid and not that this involved a "kidnapping."

Reportedly, Stines had not been acting his normal self weeks prior to the shooting, and told a local reporter he was not commenting on the Sheriffs FB page out of fear of negative posts. Also said he'd lost a considerable amount of weight in a short period and couldn't explain why. These all seem to me to be hallmarks of extreme stress and paranoia-- which could also be making him difficult to live with. Today, I'm more curious than ever whether or not there had been recent talk of a separation or divorce.

As one of his closest and best friends, I can see a situation where Stines family would have confided in Judge Mullins that things were not right with Mickey at home, and changes were about to happen. A paranoid Stines could have believed if Mullins was aiding in the legal separation of his wife and child, the ultimate betrayal.

I don't recall a more tragic case. Two men, each with the support and respect of their community, left in disbelief when one guns the other down-- following a routine lunch!
MOO

ETA: Mullins had known the Sheriff's daughter her entire life. Her dad was his bailiff for 14 years until he became the Sheriff. In a town of only 1700, I don't think it so strange he'd have her phone number. She may have even been instructed from an early age to call Mullins if dad or mom not available. (Example-- CBS Blue Bloods. If Lenny Ross' daughter's number was saved in Frank Reagan's phone, would you assume something nefarious going on between the Police Commissioner and Lenny's kid)?
Click to expand...
Obviously something was not ok. Clearly using the Judge's phone to call the daughter revealed something. I am guessing that it may have been how/where that number was in his contacts that was a problem.
 
Harriett_Eva said:
Maybe everyone agrees that it was extreme “emotional disturbance” and yet no one wants it to go to trial - so no exception, or lesser charge considered, and then no indictment and no trial- perhaps that’s what getting “treated fair” might look like-

Not saying it’s right - or is what’s happening, but if it was - it could explain some things -

IANAL MOO
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"Extreme emotional disturbance" is exact language from the Kentucky murder and manslaughter statutes laying out an exception to its general murder rule. The prosecution doesn't agree it was extreme emotional disturbance. Both statutes contain the same language. See:


 
Tricia said:
Hi Seattle 1,
Could you please provide links to MSM where you learned about these things?
Thanks
Click to expand...

Sure, here you go.

MassGuy

Post in thread 'Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024'

SHERIFF STINES HAD NOT ‘BEEN HIMSELF’ IN THE DAYS LEADING UP TO HIS MURDER OF LETCHER DISTRICT JUDGE KEVIN MULLINS

As hateful and unfounded rumors continue making their way through social media sites and elsewhere, a disturbing picture of what really transpired in the Letcher County Courthouse last week has begun to emerge.

Friends and coworkers say Letcher County Sheriff Mickey Stines had been acting erratically since around Labor Day. He was quieter than usual and had stopped regular communications with the community and the press. In mid-August he deleted his office’s Facebook page...
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Allabouttrial

Post in thread 'Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024'

Erm I apologise in advance for the length....

PROBABLE CAUSE HEARING

1ST OCTOBER

PROSECUTOR - Can you state your name for the record?

DETECTIVE - Clayton Stamper.

PROSECUTOR - How are you employed?

DETECTIVE - I'm a detective with the Kentucky State Police assigned to post 13 hazard.

PROSECUTOR - How long have you been employed?

DETECTIVE - I've been with KSP a little over 24 years. A detective since 2006.

PROSECUTOR - And have you in the (inaudible), have you investigated the death of Kevin Mullins?

DETECTIVE...
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www.courier-journal.com

Without a motive, Kentucky sheriff's shooting of judge leaves more questions than answers

They'd been friends for years and were two well-known elected officials. So why would Letcher County's sheriff shoot its only judge in the courthouse?
www.courier-journal.com
 
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AugustWest said:
"Extreme emotional disturbance" is exact language from the Kentucky murder and manslaughter statutes laying out an exception to its general murder rule. The prosecution doesn't agree it was extreme emotional disturbance. Both statutes contain the same language. See:


Click to expand...
I understand- I read the code- I’m saying that there might be different motivations or reasons for not allowing the lesser charge to be considered
 
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