Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 # 2

[LoveyG]

This case is driving me crazy. The judge was actually smoking a cigarette at the time of the shooting. He puts his hand up, and I don't detect any alarm on his face. It almost looks like he thinks the Sheriff, his friend, is joking. amoo

I agree and can almost hear the judge saying "c'mon man, put that away."

 

[Ontario Mom]

I do not believe KSP would outright lie about the fact that her number was not stored in the victim's phone. MOO Not there means not there. not under her name or any other.

LE has told us the sheriff reportedly made phone calls (plural) from his own phone at least some of which were to his daughter. LE has said that Stines dialed his daughter's number in and made at least a call to his daughter using Mullins' phone. LE has said that the daughter did not answer the call from Mullins phone, nor was her number stored as a contact in his phone.

What is not clear (yet) is did the sheriff and his daughter have any conversation(s) in the calls he made to her from his own phone? And what was the content of those conversations?

Whether her number was stored or not, I think the more important question is what was the content of the conversations between the judge and Stines' kid, that the lead detective seems to think will be on Judge Mullins cell records.

I think knowing the answer to that, would clear up Stines motive.

 

[LoveyG]

but this does, at least for me:

Kentucky State Police later clarified that they have no evidence the daughter’s phone number was on the judge’s phone before the sheriff dialed it
https://www.npr.org/2024/10/01/g-s1-25793/video-shows-the-moment-a-kentucky-judge-was-shot-to-death

No evidence it was on the phone "before" the sheriff dialed it. How about after he dialed it?

Here's the scenario brought up by PrairieWind, that it had been stored under a different name and didn't come up until after he manually dialed it, linked below.

P

Post in thread 'Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 # 2'

Oct 9, 2024

This sounds important:

Testimony about phone number of sheriff’s daughter taken ‘out of context,’ sources say​

By Mountain Eagle Staff
on October 09, 2024
By SAM ADAMS

Two law enforcement sources have confirmed that former Sheriff Shawn “Mickey” Stines did not select his daughter’s number from a pre-saved list on District Judge Kevin Mullins’s phone when he called her just prior to killing the judge. Both say Stines dialed the number before he shot Mullins multiple times in the judge’s chambers behind the Letcher District Courtroom...

The rest of the article is...

• PrairieWind

• 
• 

 

[Friday Fan]

At the prelim hearing starting at 20:41 the defense attorney is asking a series of questions of the lead detective specifically about Stines' daughter. The transcript isn't available so this the condensed version of that part of his testimony:

Did you conduct an interview? He answers that he did not, but that she has been interviewed.
Did KSP obtain her phone? He answers no.
Do you intend to obtain records of her cell number? He answers "possibly" (also seems sort of dodgy)

Asked if he intends to obtain her cell phone records.
He responds "well the calls should be on the judge's records too, and she's made statements about what (odd pause, eyebrows go up) occurred during those conversations".

The linked NPR article states she did not answer the phone when her dad called from the judge's phone, so this just raises more questions, specifically, when & what exactly were those other conversations between her and the judge (that should be on the judge's phone) where things "occured" according to the lead detective?

"those conversations" could have referred to the conversations that the daughter had with the detectives.

She could have simply stated that she received a call from the judge's number etc. Showed them her phone etc.

All calls the judge made should be on his phone. Stamper said he did not have info from the judge's phone. (Waiting on results)

Stamper was very evasive..MOO

 

[Seattle1]

I do not believe KSP would outright lie about the fact that her number was not stored in the victim's phone. MOO Not there means not there. not under her name or any other.

LE has told us the sheriff reportedly made phone calls (plural) from his own phone at least some of which were to his daughter. LE has said that Stines dialed his daughter's number in and made at least a call to his daughter using Mullins' phone. LE has said that the daughter did not answer the call from Mullins phone, nor was her number stored as a contact in his phone.

What is not clear (yet) is did the sheriff and his daughter have any conversation(s) in the calls he made to her from his own phone? And what was the content of those conversations?

Although this was called a "preliminary hearing" -- it really wasn't as far as what one expects in terms of good faith inquiry and response that's in the interest of justice. Here, Stamper was intent on leaving it to State forensics to respond to any confirmation or denials on the the contents of the phone.

IMO, this was really a probable cause hearing for the limited purpose of binding the case over to a grand jury-- where the single witness (Stamper) for the prosecution, saw his job as guarding the state's charge of first degree murder, whereas the defense's questions were positioned to elicit more than what the detective was willing to share-- including hearsay evidence, which Stamper had to be reminded, fell on him as part of his responsibility during a Kentucky Prelim Hearing.

Unfortunately, the minimal speak by Stamper is exactly what caused the saved/not saved (phone #) confusion to begin with! We can't blame the defense for posing the questions -- they were just doing their job. MOO

ETA: Also, be reminded that the defense has no right to approach or give evidence before the grand jury. The defense can make the request but the grand jury does not have to accept. IMO, understanding his role, Stamper could have been more forth coming in his responses.

 

[tlcya]

Although this was called a "preliminary hearing" -- it really wasn't as far as what one expects in terms of good faith inquiry and response that's in the interest of justice. Here, Stamper was intent on leaving it to State forensics to respond to any confirmation or denials on the the contents of the phone.

IMO, this was really a probable cause hearing for the limited purpose of binding the case over to a grand jury-- where the single witness (Stamper) for the prosecution, saw his job as guarding the state's charge of first degree murder, whereas the defense's questions were positioned to elicit more than what the detective was willing to share-- including hearsay evidence, which Stamper had to be reminded, fell on him as part of his responsibility during a Kentucky Prelim Hearing.

Unfortunately, the minimal speak by Stamper is exactly what caused the saved/not saved (phone #) confusion to begin with! We can't blame the defense for posing the questions -- they were just doing their job. MOO

agree with the BBM portion. Stamper was attempting to give the defense as little as possible while defense was (I think) trying to figure out what caused his client to act as he did. Between the two a lot of misunderstanding was created for those watching.

 

[Seattle1]

agree with the BBM portion. Stamper was attempting to give the defense as little as possible while defense was (I think) trying to figure out what caused his client to act as he did. Between the two a lot of misunderstanding was created for those watching.

Yes. Also see my edit to add.

 

[Ontario Mom]

"those conversations" could have referred to the conversations that the daughter had with the detectives.

She could have simply stated that she received a call from the judge's number etc. Showed them her phone etc.

All calls the judge made should be on his phone. Stamper said he did not have info from the judge's phone. (Waiting on results)

Stamper was very evasive..MOO

The context of the questioning was about phone conversations between the minor girl and the judge.
He had just been asked if HER phone was obtained, and said no, that those records of calls (plural calls, that would be on her phone), would also be on the judge's phone.

If you watch his face when he says this, it's impossible to not notice his pause, and eyebrows go up when he says
"and she's made statements as to what occurred in those conversations". Implying that she made those statements to the detectives, about her conversations with the judge.

jmo

 

[Parsnip]

Does anyone know where the bailiff assigned to protect KM was during the private interaction in chambers? It’s a wonder to me that 8 shots were fired with nobody bursting in. Iirc, MS left via a back door in chambers and then reentered the courthouse to surrender. Was MS wearing a Kevlar vest? Was he prepared for a confrontation with le? Moo.

 

[fsngruv]

This sounds important:

Testimony about phone number of sheriff’s daughter taken ‘out of context,’ sources say​

By Mountain Eagle Staff
on October 09, 2024
By SAM ADAMS

Two law enforcement sources have confirmed that former Sheriff Shawn “Mickey” Stines did not select his daughter’s number from a pre-saved list on District Judge Kevin Mullins’s phone when he called her just prior to killing the judge. Both say Stines dialed the number before he shot Mullins multiple times in the judge’s chambers behind the Letcher District Courtroom...

The rest of the article is behind a paywall.


This could mean that Stines did not find his daughter's number on the judge's phone pre-saved or otherwise but rather the record of him dialing it right then was what Stamper was referring to. If so his reaction might be more related on what was said if the daughter answered while she was thinking she was speaking to the judge (not to the Sheriff following his missed calls).
Not known if the call was cut-off immediately. Could she have tried to call back (the judge) -as shown in the ringing phone on the desk in the video?

Does anyone have access to the Mountain Eagle article to elaborate on what was written in the article?

I've wondered if I've taken the reports of the daughters phone being called from the judges phone out of context.

Maybe he was just calling her to say good bye? Because he knew what he was going to do. Or for whatever reason he wanted the judge to talk to the daughter, maybe to say something about the kidnapping claims or he wanted her to convince to judge of something?

I spent a ton of time researching the mountain eagle and past articles and the town definitely has lot of interesting folks, a slightly shifty legal/police system with a ton of nepotism within those systems. Judge Mullins often went against the da, especially when they tried to offer lighter sentences for SA, though he often went lighter on offenders with drug problems. Not even the
Sheriff comes off as shifty in the past articles... But a couple things did stand out to me, that deputies have been accused by many different people about stopping them or picking them up in their department vehicles to otherwise harass them if they thought they were a threat to their good ol boy system. Just my opinion from reading.

 

[Parsnip]

Maybe he was just calling her to say good bye?

I am wondering about that, too. Perhaps he called her from his phone, and she didn’t pick up. Then he punched in her number into KM’s phone to try her again, and he used his own phone to get the number, hence the “comparing phones” information that we learned of early on. Moo.

 

[worm]

Does anyone know where the bailiff assigned to protect KM was during the private interaction in chambers? It’s a wonder to me that 8 shots were fired with nobody bursting in. Iirc, MS left via a back door in chambers and then reentered the courthouse to surrender. Was MS wearing a Kevlar vest? Was he prepared for a confrontation with le? Moo.

Just my local experience from covering court the bailiffs mainly keep the court secure and I’m not sure about assigning to an official unless there’s a threat.

 

[tlcya]

fsngruv said:
Maybe he was just calling her to say good bye?

I am wondering about that, too. Perhaps he called her from his phone, and she didn’t pick up. Then he punched in her number into KM’s phone to try her again, and he used his own phone to get the number, hence the “comparing phones” information that we learned of early on. Moo.

interesting thought. I must admit.

 

[Seattle1]

Does anyone know where the bailiff assigned to protect KM was during the private interaction in chambers? It’s a wonder to me that 8 shots were fired with nobody bursting in. Iirc, MS left via a back door in chambers and then reentered the courthouse to surrender. Was MS wearing a Kevlar vest? Was he prepared for a confrontation with le? Moo.

Very good question.

We know that Stines was not dressed in uniform on the date of the shooting, and whether or not he was wearing a vest is unknown.

Personally, I can't help but think that Stines must have been prepared to die after firing the first shot in Mullins Chambers -- let alone 8 shots! I only see one entrance/exit from the Chambers. If this was a possible suicide by cop situation, poses another question of whether Stines attempt to contact his daughter from two different phones was just a father's desperate attempt to say goodbye. MOO

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1844118001387233310

 

[Seattle1]

Just my local experience from covering court the bailiffs mainly keep the court secure and I’m not sure about assigning to an official unless there’s a threat.

Mullins was the only District Court Judge in Letcher County and/or the County Courthouse (1st floor courtroom), and I wasn't able to locate his calendar for 9/19.

The Circuit Court Judge and Court are located on the 2nd floor and have their own bailiff. I agree, if there was no Court scheduled or in session, I think they could have been just about anywhere in the building.

I'm recalling the interview by the Circuit Court Clerk and he did mention that they (Bailiffs) did not hesitate to enter Mullins Chambers (Stines had obviously already made his exit via the side door). MOO

 

[LeahBee]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1844118001387233310

Spoiler alert: Lawyer for killer Kentucky sheriff DOES NOT REVEAL the real reason why he shot judge dead

Spoiler alert 2: they both ordered the $13.99 wings and salad for lunch

 

[Seattle1]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1844118001387233310

Duh -- DM clickbait -- heat of passion. We heard this already at the prelim hearing (i.e., extreme emotional disturbance) saves Stines from the DP.

 

[acehard]

Spoiler alert: Lawyer for killer Kentucky sheriff DOES NOT REVEAL the real reason why he shot judge dead

Spoiler alert 2: they both ordered the $13.99 wings and salad for lunch

Salad. That's how he lost weight. At least we solved that. IMO

 

[m00c0w]

I do not believe KSP would outright lie about the fact that her number was not stored in the victim's phone. MOO Not there means not there. not under her name or any other.

LE has told us the sheriff reportedly made phone calls (plural) from his own phone at least some of which were to his daughter. LE has said that Stines dialed his daughter's number in and made at least a call to his daughter using Mullins' phone. LE has said that the daughter did not answer the call from Mullins phone, nor was her number stored as a contact in his phone.

What is not clear (yet) is did the sheriff and his daughter have any conversation(s) in the calls he made to her from his own phone? And what was the content of those conversations?

To be fair, all we have are paraphrased quotes claiming that KSP stated something. The context of those quotes aren’t clear. If they had not obtained phone dumps at that point (which I think is accurate - I recall reading that they were still being processed), then KSP can both say they don’t have evidence to support that notion (yet), while there also being evidence to support it that just hasn’t been fully processed and examined. KSP’s statement also seems to contradict some of the court testimony as seen upthread (daughter gave statements about talking to the judge).

I think a lot of folks are trying to avoid this being tried in the media, so are putting forth a lot of effort to extinguish flames before they erupt into a massive thing.

JMO