Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 # 2

[tlcya]

I think if the civil suit plaintiff believed or could substantiate that Stines KNEW and failed to act about the in chambers extracurriculars Fields was up to that would have been part of their complaint and they would have more counts against Stines than just he should have known and must have failed to train Fields not to SA people. JMO

 

[Elley Mae]

Not knowing much about depositions, could something have come out of that to set stines off?

 

[RANCH]

I think if the civil suit plaintiff believed or could substantiate that Stines KNEW and failed to act about the in chambers extracurriculars Fields was up to that would have been part of their complaint and they would have more counts against Stines than just he should have known and must have failed to train Fields not to SA people. JMO

If Stines knew about the bailiffs criminal acts and failed to stop those acts by arresting him, would Stines be guilty of criminal conspiracy?

Not sure about this so just asking.

 

[al66pine]

Well, if this is how the sheriff deals with people who "resist" arrest, I'm glad he's locked up!

Where are his handcuffs?
Why didn't he call for back up?
Why doesn't he try to tackle the judge before he shoots him?
And if he tried to tackle the judge in the preceding minutes of the video why isn't the office a mess before he draws his gun?
Why doesn't he try to cuff him before he shoots him?
Why doesn't he just rough up the judge? The judge is sitting down. He's smoking. He's smaller than Stines. He's older than Stines. Certainly Stines could have just gone over to the chair and roughed him up and easily apprehended him.
Why is the judge sitting down? (Which is a strange position for "resisting arrest)

@Friday Fan
Post ^ saying "why didn't" sheriff do X, Y, or Z suggests that those are known FACTS reported by MSM or other WS approved sources (which I may have missed).

IDK what Mullins or Stines did or did not do in judge's chambers before Stines opened fire and am not guessing, not speculating, not engaging on that issue.

 

[Wallendo]

I read the complaint, and one thing that stood out to me is that it alleges that all of the sexual contact occurred in the judge's chambers because there were no cameras there. Were there no cameras at the courthouse entrances or in the halls? Second, the deputy routinely visited the plaintiff at her residence as part of his job, but apparently there were no sexual encounters at that location. The judge's chambers don't look like a comfortable spot for those activities. Third, the ankle monitor remained primarily at the courthouse. Was anybody monitoring it other than making sure it was in place on court dates?

This just seems like an unnecessarily complex (and risky) scenario. There may be a reason it was done this way related to sheriff department protocols and I am over-reading too much into this.

Maybe it is two unrelated crimes both occurring in the same judge's spartan chambers, but I have a feeling they are somehow related. The basic weakness in this argument is how this would related to the calls to the sheriff's daughter immediately prior to the killing. I suspect we will not know what happened until the trial.

 

[riolove77]

I don't think the Fields scandal has anything to do with the judge's murder.

 

[PrairieWind]

Not knowing much about depositions, could something have come out of that to set stines off?

Maybe, but we haven't heard anything. A deposition like this would be 30-60 minutes of talking about his history and background, and then the rest of the time angling questions that are insinuating at what a terrible job he is doing. It wouldn't have been fun for sure, and very frustrating. But he was not an individual defendant. So the depo itself seems unlikely to enrage him to this degree. Could something out of the blue been mentioned or insinuated at the depo? Perhaps. But there would have been multiple people at that depo that heard it. I think we would have heard something.

 

[PrairieWind]

I don't think the Fields scandal has anything to do with the judge's murder.

I would tend to agree. However, just because of the timing and location of the events in the same are, I think it has to be considered. I can come up with some scenarios in my head that could link them sort of, but its a stretch. I don't know. My gut tells me they aren't related. At least not directly.

 

[twall]

Aired 10/09/2024. Guest is attorney for plaintiff in civil suit. Describes Stines demeanor during deposition days before shooting.

Defense Attorney of Sheriff Accused of Killing Judge Speaks

'Mickey' Stines' attorney, Jeremy Bartley, says 'It was not something that was planned and occurred in the heat of passion.'

www.courttv.com

 

[PrairieWind]

Not knowing much about depositions, could something have come out of that to set stines off?

I already responded to this, but your question did get me thinking. Maybe the deposition brought up something unrelated to the Fields case directly but significant to the Sheriff?
The deputy allegedly used the Judge's chambers because there were no cameras. Insinuating that cameras are everywhere else. (Now, that in itself raises interesting questions for me as an attorney in regards to the Field's case). But it also means those cameras SHOULD catch a lot of stuff. Now, we have a judge shot in "his chambers" where there IS a camera. I have mentioned before that in my years of practicing law, whatever the locations, no matter how small a court, I have never seen a Judge's chambers that small and shabby and NEVER with a camera. I still don't think that is his NORMAL chambers. So why is he in there? I don't know.

 

[KonaHonu]

It is the standard should have known, failure to properly train/supervise allegation brought in these cases. There is no allegation that he WAS aware and failed to investigate.

In fact, if you read some of the amended complaints there is evidence that the sheriff acted swiftly to fire Fields as soon as he got wind of something improper happening. I say this because when Fields charged one of the victims with escape on Jan 26, Stines went with Fields to arrest her.

She was charged on a Wednesday, the lawsuit was filed the following Monday, and Fields was fired on Wednesday Feb 2. That's pretty fast.

And if you look at the supporting forms for the forma pauperis motions it appears the victim was quickly released from jail on the escape charge. She was also housed in a different county jail because Fields's wife is a corrections officer at the Letcher county jail.

This all comes from the lawsuit documents linked above.

 

[Friday Fan]

Aired 10/09/2024. Guest is attorney for plaintiff in civil suit. Describes Stines demeanor during deposition days before shooting.

Defense Attorney of Sheriff Accused of Killing Judge Speaks

'Mickey' Stines' attorney, Jeremy Bartley, says 'It was not something that was planned and occurred in the heat of passion.'

www.courttv.com

Paraphrasing: Plaintiffs' attorney said it seemed like something was going on and that he was off and he didn't seem to be himself during deposition. Paraphrasing a paraphrase: Stines didn't seem to be "with it"...

Also he stated that the sheriff was so popular that a Lechter County grand jury would likely not indict him for murder.
He thinks it will be jury nullification if he is indicted and case is held with a Lechter County jury. Referred to a John Grisham book, "A Time to Kill"


I don't think a prosecution can request a "change of venue". Obviously they recused themselves, but my hunch is the grand jury will go through Lechter County and the case would be tried in Lechter County.

MOO:
Sounds like the case is doomed.
Makes me think of John Gotti and the Eastern District of NY. He was just too popular in Brooklyn.

(The Southern District in Manhattan is what put Gotti away, but it wasn't a "change of venue", it was due to a different set of crimes that occurred in Manhattan)

 

[KonaHonu]

I would tend to agree. However, just because of the timing and location of the events in the same are, I think it has to be considered. I can come up with some scenarios in my head that could link them sort of, but its a stretch. I don't know. My gut tells me they aren't related. At least not directly.

I don't think the civil case has anything to do with it. There has to be a lot at stake to commit murder and the sheriff really had nothing personally at stake in the civil suit. Fields had given his deposition the week before. It is possible he made some kind of allegation that the sheriff was in on it. I doubt that and there would be no evidence except the word of Fields. Plus, any prosecutor would have to overcome the issue of Fields not mentioning Stines's involvement when he pled guilty and was presumably required to allocute. But then the AG has refused to produce an unredacted copy of the criminal case files so it is possible Fields made allegations then.

 

[twall]

I am hoping it is something simple like Stines having a brain tumor that changed his behavior, impulse control, etc. Before my former fil was diagnosed with a brain tumor he was acting out of character. He was verbally and physically abusive towards his mother (who he lived with) when he never was before. JMO

 

[Friday Fan]

I am hoping it is something simple like Stines having a brain tumor that changed his behavior, impulse control, etc. Before my former fil was diagnosed with a brain tumor he was acting out of character. He was verbally and physically abusive towards his mother (who he lived with) when he never was before. JMO

Could be anything. Could be something common and mild, such as a sleep disorder or anything....Aches and pains...combine it with stressful work etc...Who knows?

 

[MollyDDD]

I have no idea. But my guess is that it is extremely unlikely he was aware. If the Plaintiffs has one scintilla of evidence that he did they would have drafted that Complaint very differently.

Well, my impression is that this small, tight knit town was pretty much into everyone else’s business, especially inside the walls of the Letcher County Courthouse. IMO, there is no way the Sheriff wasn’t aware of what was going on in Judge Mullins’ chambers, or any other part of that court house. His ego would have none of that, IMO of course.

 

[Seattle1]

I already responded to this, but your question did get me thinking. Maybe the deposition brought up something unrelated to the Fields case directly but significant to the Sheriff?
The deputy allegedly used the Judge's chambers because there were no cameras. Insinuating that cameras are everywhere else. (Now, that in itself raises interesting questions for me as an attorney in regards to the Field's case). But it also means those cameras SHOULD catch a lot of stuff. Now, we have a judge shot in "his chambers" where there IS a camera. I have mentioned before that in my years of practicing law, whatever the locations, no matter how small a court, I have never seen a Judge's chambers that small and shabby and NEVER with a camera. I still don't think that is his NORMAL chambers. So why is he in there? I don't know.

Up until the shooting, the Letcher County Courthouse was proud to cite how they took pride in being one of the few if not the only District Courthouse without any security screening entrance! Doors open, come on in, representative of the 1700 population of Whitesburg, KY.

The County Jail is located in the basement level of the Courthouse building, and the offending deputy named in the civil lawsuit was actually Mullins bailiff -- giving him easy access to both the building, and Mullins Chambers. By all accounts, the camera in Mullins Chambers followed the indictment of bailiff Fields. MOO

 

[Friday Fan]

Up until the shooting, the Letcher County Courthouse was proud to cite how they took pride in being one of the few if not the only District Courthouse without any security screening entrance! Doors open, come on in, representative of the 1700 population of Whitesburg, KY.

The County Jail is located in the basement level of the Courthouse building, and the offending deputy named in the civil lawsuit was actually Mullins bailiff -- giving him easy access to both the building, and Mullins Chambers. By all accounts, the camera in Mullins Chambers followed the indictment of bailiff Fields. MOO

I would think the sheriff would have been allowed to bypass a security check anyway.

 

[MollyDDD]

Yes, just as Official-capacity suits are simply “another way of pleading an action against an entity of which an officer is an agent.” Kentucky v. Graham, 473 U.S. 159, 166 (1985). In this case, claim against the County.

The civil lawsuit was filed Jan 31, 2022, and Sheriff Stines fired the offending deputy the following day for conduct unbecoming. The former deputy wasn't indicted and/or criminally charged until September 2022. [Independent, Criminal investigation by AGO].

Following the depositions of all three named defendants, the plaintiffs had moved for Mediation but the case was stayed following the shooting. More recently (Sept 23) stay, deadlines for discovery, etc., extended 60 days for status of case.

IMO, this civil suit has no relevance to the shooting of Judge Mullins.

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/65590626/adkins-v-fields/

I agree 100%. If the sheriff turned a blind eye to what was going on right under his nose, while quite telling, that’s on him. IMO

 

[Seattle1]

I would think the sheriff would have been allowed to bypass a security check anyway.

Yes, and thank you. Replying to other.