Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024

[KonaHonu]

and whether his felony conviction for the murder is considered "related to [his] employment as provided in subsection 3" ?

You're right but I was just assuming it is. We'll have to see.

 

[Ontario Mom]

https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/law/statutes/statute.aspx?id=50549

61.535 Cessation of membership -- Conditions -- Forfeiture of retirement benefits.(Effective April 1, 2021)
(1) The membership of any person in the system shall cease:
(a) Upon withdrawal of his accumulated account balance at or any time after termination of employment, regardless of length of service;
(b) Upon disability retirement;
(c) Upon service retirement;
(d) Upon death;
(e) For persons hired prior to August 1, 2000, upon termination of employment with prejudice; or
(f) For persons hired on or after August 1, 2000, upon conviction of a felony relating to the person's employment as provided in subsection (3) of this section

It's going to depend on whether Stines started working for the Commonwealth before August 1, 2000

Wouldn't it have to be proven the felony was in fact related to his employment?
I mean, if his motive was entirely personal, then that condition wouldn't apply.

Subsection 3 (from the link above)

Notwithstanding any provision of law to the contrary, an employee hired on or afterAugust 1, 2000, who participates in one (1) of the retirement systems administered by the Kentucky Retirement Systems and who is convicted, in any state or federal court of competent jurisdiction, of a felony related to his employment shall forfeit rights and benefits earned under the retirement system, except for the return of his accumulated contributions and interest credited on those contributions. The payment of retirement benefits ordered forfeited shall be stayed pending any appeal of the conviction. If the conviction is reversed on final judgment, no retirement benefit shall be forfeited. The employer shall notify the retirement system when an employee is convicted under the provisions of this subsection.

jmo

 

[KonaHonu]

Wouldn't it have to be proven the felony was in fact related to his employment?
I mean, if his motive was entirely personal, then that condition wouldn't apply.

Yes, it would have to be proven that the felony was job-related. But I suspect it is all moot. I think the sheriff started before August 1, 2000 but have not found definitive proof.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

and whether his felony conviction for the murder is considered "related to [his] employment as provided in subsection 3" ?

Yes @tlcya ….. and will be interesting to see how this goes. As to ‘related to [his] employment as provided’…… there is that little thing IIRC that the sheriff is in part responsible for security / safety of certain places and individuals (e.g. the judge) and IIUC the courthouse ….. and the sheriff did enter the courthouse, judge’s chambers, apparently had some exchange or discussion with the judge…… and then proceeded to file eight (8) shots IIUC. IANAL and have not examined the state (or federal) statutes or governing laws. MOO

 

[Soulmagent]

Another area and community Murdaughed...

What if he was making sure something was deleted? Even though we know it's not forever...

I think they could have been using there text message drafts to talk silently without actually sending text back and forth ,it might have been 3rd party communication as well.

 

[m00c0w]

The problem with trying a rape case where the victim has died of other causes is that any statements that she provided describing her recollection of events will be hearsay. This evidence is generally not allowed since the defendant has no opportunity to cross-examine. DNA can prove that sex occurred but cannot prove rape. A rape examination can prove that aggressive sex occurred but cannot disprove consent.

This is actually relatively trivial in Kentucky. All that’s necessary is to prove the deputy had sex with a person in their care. It doesn’t matter how consensual it was, it still qualifies for third degree rape or sodomy… probably to prevent claims of consent when a person was otherwise forced into the situation as a result of the power disparity.

JMO

 

[susiQ]

This is going to be interesting.

 

[?!?]

Kentucky sheriff accused of killing judge makes decision on leaving office

A Kentucky sheriff accused of killing a judge announced whether or not he is leaving office.

www.wkyt.com

He IS leaving office.

 

[rogue ant]

What if his phone was back to Lock Screen position? I have mine set to seconds so it would have been locked by the time the shooting happened.

I know a lot of people who don't use any lockscreen. The screen goes dark but unlocks with a simple swipe

 

[Simply Southern]

I imagine he may still receive his pension but it may be revoked upon his being criminally convicted of this killing.

I doubt he has a pension. The County probably offers a percentage match for a 401k. He listed a 401k as an asset.
Moo

 

[KonaHonu]

I doubt he has a pension. The County probably offers a percentage match for a 401k. He listed a 401k as an asset.
Moo

Members

www.kyret.ky.gov

Stines is in Tier 1 based on when he joined the sheriff's department as a deputy. He is entitled to a pension of Final Compensation * Benefit Factor * Years of Service = $115,000 * 2.50% * 22 = $63,250 per year for life starting now when he is 43. That assumes he is in the police retirement system. If he is in the regular retirement system the 2.50% changes to 2.49% so he would make $62,997. They also pay most of his insurance for him, wife, and daughter.

He is eligible for full retirement because he would be in the hazardous category and had completed more than 20 years of service.




Where did you see that he listed a 401(k) as an asset? That would not make any sense. As a public employee he would not be eligible for one.

 

[Chimera]

Kentucky sheriff accused of killing judge makes decision on leaving office

A Kentucky sheriff accused of killing a judge announced whether or not he is leaving office.

www.wkyt.com

He IS leaving office.

Nooo ! Really ?? (Jk)
Smh.
Even if by chance Stines was found not guilty, his days as a LEO are pretty much over.
Was it worth it ? (minor sarcasm intended)
No one has the right to take the law into their own hands, not even a sheriff.
With more power he had greater responsibility and as such should be judged more harshly, Imo.
Omo.

 

[Simply Southern]

I posted information about his pension with links upthread.

Where did you see that he listed a 401(k) as an asset? That would not make any sense. As a public employee he would not be eligible for one.

On the application for legal aid, court appointed attorney. There was a long discussion related to the amount over 100k, on this thread.
Does anyone else remember?
Moo

 

[Chimera]

Only two people know the truth and one of them is dead and cannot speak for himself.
Hopefully the truth will be revealed some day.

 

[Simply Southern]

I posted information about his pension with links upthread.

Where did you see that he listed a 401(k) as an asset? That would not make any sense. As a public employee he would not be eligible for one.

You are correct, it is a pension plan.
This is the 2023 Audit...

LETCHER COUNTY
NOTES TO FINANCIAL STATEMENT
December 31, 2022
(Continued)

Note 2. Employee Retirement System and Other Post-Employment Benefits
The sheriff’s office has elected to participate, pursuant to KRS 78.530, in the County Employees Retirement
System (CERS), which is administered by the Kentucky Public Pensions Authority (KPPA). This is a cost-
sharing, multiple-employer, defined benefit pension plan, which covers all eligible full-time employees and
provides for retirement, disability, and death benefits to plan members. Benefit contributions and provisions are
established by statute.
The sheriff’s contribution for calendar year 2020 was $100,380, calendar year 2021 was $85,122, and calendar
year 2022 was $70,744.

 

[mickey2942]

I imagine he may still receive his pension but it may be revoked upon his being criminally convicted of this killing.

They didn't set aside the fat pension for Jerry Sandusky. They decided that his wife was entitled to the pension. INMO, she knew what he was doing...right in their home.

 

[KonaHonu]

You are correct, it is a pension plan.
This is the 2023 Audit...

LETCHER COUNTY
NOTES TO FINANCIAL STATEMENT
December 31, 2022
(Continued)

Note 2. Employee Retirement System and Other Post-Employment Benefits
The sheriff’s office has elected to participate, pursuant to KRS 78.530, in the County Employees Retirement
System (CERS), which is administered by the Kentucky Public Pensions Authority (KPPA). This is a cost-
sharing, multiple-employer, defined benefit pension plan, which covers all eligible full-time employees and
provides for retirement, disability, and death benefits to plan members. Benefit contributions and provisions are
established by statute.
The sheriff’s contribution for calendar year 2020 was $100,380, calendar year 2021 was $85,122, and calendar
year 2022 was $70,744.

Thanks for confirming it is CERS!

 

[Simply Southern]

Thanks for confirming it is CERS!

I really wanted the details on the retirement. Still don't understand the 401k, previous job...maybe.
Moo

 

[KonaHonu]

I really wanted the details on the retirement. Still don't understand the 401k, previous job...maybe.
Moo

I'll try to summarize information that has already been posted or is widely known.

Stines is 43 years old.

He has worked for the sheriff's department for 22 years, i.e. since he was 21 years old. I believe that is the minimum age to be a deputy sheriff.

The sheriff's birthday is in November 1980 (Truepeoplesearch.com) so he turned 21 in November 2001

The statute posted upthread says his pension can be taken away if he is convicted of a job-related felony unless his employment started before August 2000. I incorrectly believed it had in earlier posts. But we don't know what he was doing between high school and becoming a deputy so he MAY have been in the retirement system then.

The sheriff's office pays into the Kentucky County Employees Retirement System (CERS) and as LE he would fall in the hazardous category which has lower eligibility requirements. He can retire with full benefits after 20 years regardless of age and his pay is determined by his 3 highest years of pay time years of service times 2.5%.

A government employee retirement plan is usually a "401(a)." A non-profit or school one is a 403(b). A 401(k) is for profit-making companies. The numbers like "401(a)" come from the section of the Internal Revenue Code that authorizes them. There are probably some exceptions and hybrid cases but those are not relevant here. For example, an airport authority is usually private, often profit-making, but otherwise acts more like a government entity so I don't know where they might fall. But we know from the audits that the LCSO pays into the CERS.

Welcome

www.kyret.ky.gov

 

[Knox]

Interesting…… does this mean that the sheriff will keep and collect his pension, if such exists? Perhaps it would have been appropriate to have resigned, not to retire? MOO

Someone correct me if I’m wrong. I think he could lose the portion the County contributed to his pension, but not what he contributed.