Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024

[FromGermany1]

How old is the daughter? If she’s a minor, that would be a major concern for a father.

NOW 17, afaik.

 

[Soulmagent]

Aware of what? And charge her with what?

I was responding to this post so ...

If there had been an illegal, indecent relationship, that can no longer be charged since the hypothetical perp is now dead. The daughter committed no crime herself in that relationship if it occurred, but her phone may have important evidence about another (or other) crime(s).

It should be easy to get a warrant to look at her phone and for all we know that is processing now.

I obviously meant illegal indecent relationship .

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I can't believe it's still up on Youtube. That was just awful. Stines made absolutely sure that he was dead, right before he opened the door, shooting him AGAIN.
ETA: It was AFTER he opened the door, he shot him AGAIN under the desk.

Fortunately, the judge was blurred in the video that I saw. It's certainly emotionally impactful.

I think anyone in extreme emotional distress, if that was indeed the state of mind of the Sheriff in the video, wouldn't intend to merely wound the other individual. Shooting from multiple vantage points seems to speak to his frame of mind and appears to support the claim of extreme emotional distress. AMOO

 

[tlcya]

Fortunately, the judge was blurred in the video that I saw. It's certainly emotionally impactful.

I think anyone in extreme emotional distress, if that was indeed the state of mind of the Sheriff in the video, wouldn't intend to merely wound the other individual. Shooting from multiple vantage points seems to speak to his frame of mind and appears to support the claim of extreme emotional distress. AMOO

I disagree currently about the extreme emotional defense bit.

But I would like to get your thoughts on the bit Stines said about "they are trying to abduct kidnap my wife and kid" business and how that factors in to the idea that his motive (whether he was correct or not) seems to be about his daughter. Because that has me stymied and I cannot for the life of me figure out what MS may have meant by making that statement upon turning himself in.

 

[justtrish]

I am listening again to the hearing and this is the exchange where the wife and daughter being kidnapped comes up.

First the witness talks about the sheriffs demeanor when he saw him after the shooting. He said he was calm, but he was kinda afraid... he said "treat me fair".

Defense attorney: Did he say something about protecting his family?

Witness: I wasn't present, but one of the other officers that was there when he was taken into custody told him Stines said "they're trying to kidnap my wife and kid"

 

[Live_and_Learn]

I am listening again to the hearing and this is the exchange where the wife and daughter being kidnapped comes up.

First the witness talks about the sheriffs demeanor when he saw him after the shooting. He said he was calm, but he was kinda afraid... he said "treat me fair".

Defense attorney: Did he say something about protecting his family?

Witness: I wasn't present, but one of the other officers that was there when he was taken into custody told him Stines said "they're trying to kidnap my wife and kid"

This might have been him saying “take” and being misquoted.

 

[RANCH]

Wilhoit allowed the case to move forward to a grand jury at the conclusion of the hearing. Stines' next court date has not been announced.

This hearing seemed to be more of a probable cause hearing than a preliminary hearing. The judge found probable cause and sent the case to the grand jury.

Amid questions about motive, court sees footage of Kentucky judge's courthouse shooting

 

[GoBuckeyes]

That's premeditation, IMO.

His mind could have been working on suspicions or on something completely unrelated. That doesn't prove premeditation. IMOO

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Fortunately, the judge was blurred in the video that I saw. It's certainly emotionally impactful.

I think anyone in extreme emotional distress, if that was indeed the state of mind of the Sheriff in the video, wouldn't intend to merely wound the other individual. Shooting from multiple vantage points seems to speak to his frame of mind and appears to support the claim of extreme emotional distress. AMOO

I wonder @GoBuckeyes ….. but from what I am reading and descriptions given of events as they unfolded, this does not IMO seem to be a case of emotional distress or severe emotional distress.

Rather it appears to be a cold, calculated, and deliberate event. As some others described IIRC an execution. And likely with premeditation. Granted one, myself included, cannot presuppose to understand what the sheriff was thinking. But the actions speak IMO loudly.

And IIUC there were earlier reports that according to the sheriff ‘something had affected or impacted his wife or daughter’….. later has become something along the lines of ‘they tried to kidnap the wife and daughter’….it IMO appears someone has had time to reflect. And almost appears is an attempt to form some odd defense or dissociative process perhaps. Maybe time with the sheriff’s counsel is being utilized? MOO

 

[justtrish]

This might have been him saying “take” and being misquoted.

It's certainly possible because the officer that heard him make this statement was not on the stand, it was the one in charge who was relaying what he was told regarding what statements Stines might have made after he was taken into custody.

Even if it was take.. what could that mean?

So someone that works for the sheriff was texting him during the lunch he had with Mullins that afternoon. Then the judge is overheard making a statement to Stines about do they need to have a meeting in private. Then later that day Stines arrives at the courthouse to see Mullins, while Mullins is in a meeting with 4 people. We don't know who those people are, but this was urgent enough that when Stines asked to talk to him privately, they exit the room and then Stines and Mullins talk.. Stines is seated across from the judge.. makes a call on his own phone, then makes a call on the judges phone.. then stands up and starts shooting the judge.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Testimony on cross after the video was shown indicated that the Sheriff's daughter was interviewed with a parent present, and that the police did not obtain her phone, it is "possible" they will obtain her phone records but that "the call would be on the Judge's cell phone records too and that she has made statements about what occurred during those conversations"

Shocking that they didn't secure her phone.

Regarding the last sentence of your post. Can you share who those conversations were with or between? I understand you're quoting from testimony, but without context I might be misinterpreting. TIA

 

[LadyL]

I am listening again to the hearing and this is the exchange where the wife and daughter being kidnapped comes up.

First the witness talks about the sheriffs demeanor when he saw him after the shooting. He said he was calm, but he was kinda afraid... he said "treat me fair".

Defense attorney: Did he say something about protecting his family?

Witness: I wasn't present, but one of the other officers that was there when he was taken into custody told him Stines said "they're trying to kidnap my wife and kid"

maybe he was afraid of sex trafficking?
maybe he was being blackmailed and thought the judge was in on it ... just spitballing
he's been losing weight - that to me suggests he was more afraid as opposed to just angry

 

[GoBuckeyes]

"When he was taken into custody I was told by one of the other officers there that he said They are trying to kidnap my wife and kid"

Who is being quoted here? I missed most of the testimony. I'm sorry. TIA

 

[Soulmagent]

His mind could have been working on suspicions or on something completely unrelated. That doesn't prove premeditation. IMOO

Unfortunately when he decided stand up is where the premeditation presented . Then he premeditates as he is advancing towards the falling judge and then again the last two shots ,which seems a prime example of premeditation happening as defined 3 intendant times.

 

[RANCH]

Stines said they are trying to kidnap both his wife and kid. He didn't say "he" but rather "they".

Who is "they" and why was both his wife and kid the alleged targets. If Stines felt that more than one person was a threat to his wife and kid why did he only shoot the judge and immediately surrender?

Something just isn't adding up here. JMO.

 

[justtrish]

I wonder @GoBuckeyes ….. but from what I am reading and descriptions given of events as they unfolded, this does not IMO seem to be a case of emotional distress or severe emotional distress.

Rather it appears to be a cold, calculated, and deliberate event. As some others described IIRC an execution. And likely with premeditation. Granted one, myself included, cannot presuppose to understand what the sheriff was thinking. But the actions speak IMO loudly.

And IIUC there were earlier reports that according to the sheriff ‘something had affected or impacted his wife or daughter’….. later has become something along the lines of ‘they tried to kidnap the wife and daughter’….it IMO appears someone has had time to reflect. And almost appears is an attempt to form some odd defense or dissociative process perhaps. Maybe time with the sheriff’s counsel is being utilized? MOO

I don't think the defense or the sheriff is trying to change his statement. He made one statement as he was being taken into custody. That statement was shared by I think it was a LEO early on maybe in response to a question. Then on the stand today the lead investigator was asked about it and he was not the one that heard the statement so he stated what he was told and that was "they're trying to kidnap my wife and daughter". So Stines didn't change the narrative, he only made one statement, but how it's being relayed to us has changed. What the actual statement was, we will have to wait to hear since neither person that has spoke about it, was the person that actually heard him say it.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

(What is STS?)

Re: MS refusing to see his wife & daughter at the jail. I wonder if that's so he can stew in his righteous feelings that he was justified, rather than have them question him or deny anything (if his reasons involve his wife &/or daughter)? I feel like he's refusing them out of arrogance, not shame. All MOO.

His lawyer may have advised him not to. MOO

 

[justtrish]

Shocking that they didn't secure her phone.

Regarding the last sentence of your post. Can you share who those conversations were with or between? I understand you're quoting from testimony, but without context I might be misinterpreting. TIA

My interpretation was that the daughter told LE what the phone calls between her and the judge were about.

 

[Seattle1]

just getting back from lunch and trying to catch up. horrible to see that video but only further cements in my mind Stines was stone cold sober and committed 1st degree premeditated murder.

Wondering what the stuff on the court employees phone reveals. Extreme emotional disturbance IMO does not work here. Stines was reportedly not himself for at least a week to 10 days before hand, was taciturn and quiet at lunch, he then arranged to have access to the judge in a closed private room for the sole purpose of executing him. That is not extreme emotional disturbance. that is a decision to commit murder. JMO

I believe today we heard from lead investigator Stamper, KSP that it was Mullins who initiated this -- asked if Stines needed to see him privately.

Also, it sounds like the Sheriff's employee was likely his secretary -- a non-sworn employee who following the shooting, volunteered her phone with text messages from Stines from the sidewalk lunch site to the investigators. At this time, we have no idea if the messages are incriminating or if they are supportive of Stines defense. MOO

 

[justtrish]

Also interesting the defense was asking the detective about apps that might be on the judges phone. It seemed to me he was suggesting that people can communicate different ways other than calls/texts and were they looking at that angle and he said once the initial download is done, they might have to issue other warrants for those things.

I am thinking they should have taken the daughters phone for this very reason as well. I wonder if they can get info from say FB or other apps without having the physical phone?