Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024

[tlcya]

COMPLETE SPECULATION: What if daughter and or wife of sheriff had reached out to MS' long time friend and associate the Judge with concerns around his change in behaviors (taking down the sheriff dept FB page/being more quiet and uncommunicative), stressing over civil suit and depo, drastic reported weight loss in just a matter of weeks, etc. If either had been in contact with the judge out of concern and MS found out they were discussing him, could he have considered that a betrayal or the judge trying to "take" his family?

 

[GoBuckeyes]

about 46:00 is the statement "They were trying to kidnap my wife and kid"
Sorry I was watching the live video and the previous timestamp was as I was watching it.

"They" So, more than one person? Even though the statements differed, was the word they consistent? TIA

This is really strange.

 

[justtrish]

maybe he was afraid of sex trafficking?
maybe he was being blackmailed and thought the judge was in on it ... just spitballing
he's been losing weight - that to me suggests he was more afraid as opposed to just angry

Yes, I suspect this is something much bigger than just Stines thought the judge was calling his daughter.

It seems like something was bothering him for a while and I can't imagine he would suspect the judge talking to his daughter and sit on that for months and then just snap one day.

 

[tlcya]

I believe today we heard from lead investigator Stamper, KSP that it was Mullins who initiated this -- asked if Stines needed to see him privately.

Also, it sounds like the Sheriff's employee was likely his secretary -- a non-sworn employee who following the shooting, volunteered her phone with text messages from Stines from the sidewalk lunch site to the investigators. At this time, we have no idea if the messages are incriminating or if they are supportive of Stines defense. MOO

could be MS texted secretary (if that is who she was) to inquire if the judge had anything going on that afternoon or had time to meet with him. Secretary texts back nope he has nothing major this afternoon, tells judge MS wants a minute with you. So then the judge says Do you need to see me privately?

 

[GoBuckeyes]

That does not look like any judge's chambers I have ever seen, in any state, at any level of court. That is just odd.

What struck me first was how incredibly cluttered it is!

 

[Parsnip]

"They" So, more than one person? Even though the statements differed, was the word they consistent? TIA

This is really strange.

I believe the use of “they” and “my wife and daughter” are consistent across statements, iirc.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Replaying the statement from the lead detective leads me to suspect that finding his kid's number on the judge's phone and then calling her from the judge's phone, was possibly confirmation (of something) for Stines. I suspect that "something" will be revealed on both phones.

What followed as we've all seen on the video today, looked to me like an extermination. First straight on, face to face, then as the judge tries to hide, Stines moves to the left and fires again, then before leaving bends down and fires again. It's as if he wanted that man completely eliminated. To me, that looks like rage. A violent, uncontrolled anger. Which is most definitely a state of emotional distress.

I can honestly only think of 1 thing that might cause a father to see red like that & lose his mind.

jmo

 

[justtrish]

COMPLETE SPECULATION: What if daughter and or wife of sheriff had reached out to MS' long time friend and associate the Judge with concerns around his change in behaviors (taking down the sheriff dept FB page/being more quiet and uncommunicative), stressing over civil suit and depo, drastic reported weight loss in just a matter of weeks, etc. If either had been in contact with the judge out of concern and MS found out they were discussing him, could he have considered that a betrayal or the judge trying to "take" his family?

This is all my opinion..

If the sheriff is this paranoid for months, then what was HE doing that caused him to be so worried?? If you have nothing to hide, I think you tend not to get paranoid about any investigations.. so his deputy was doing some awful things.. if he knew nothing about it.. why is he worried to be deposed? What was he paranoid about that made him take down FB pages and lose weight and not sleep?

Oh and I checked the FB page for Letcher County Sheriff and it was about July 18th I think was the last post and there were not more posts till August 28th... before that the page posted very frequently.. sometimes more than once a day and other times every 3-4 days. So something must have occurred about mid July for him to do that.

 

[whitelilac]

Will we see an Affidavit of Probable Cause or does that come after the Grand Jury? And if so, will it list the Sheriff's motive, what's on the phones, and what he may have related to his defense attorney?
Not sure of these procedures, or do we have to wait till the trial (if there is one) ?

 

[Soulmagent]

Who is being quoted here? I missed most of the testimony. I'm sorry. TIA

Time stamp 46 12 . No name given so it is kinda hear sayish.

 

[mzmarymac]

I hope I can state a theory based on what little evidence we have thus far, as it relates to the comment about the sheriff saying "they are trying to take my wife and daughter." I am wondering if there is a chance that the judge was having an affair with the wife of the sheriff. Or maybe even more innocently, perhaps there was trouble in the family and the judge was intervening as a friend. Sometimes, when 2 families are close and something goes awry, perhaps the mom and daughter may reach out to the "uncle" to help out in the situation. I guess I am just trying to say there are a LOT of reasons outside of what many are hinting at that could have been why the judge had the daughters phone number.

 

[PrairieWind]

I hope I can state a theory based on what little evidence we have thus far, as it relates to the comment about the sheriff saying "they are trying to take my wife and daughter." I am wondering if there is a chance that the judge was having an affair with the wife of the sheriff. Or maybe even more innocently, perhaps there was trouble in the family and the judge was intervening as a friend. Sometimes, when 2 families are close and something goes awry, perhaps the mom and daughter may reach out to the "uncle" to help out in the situation. I guess I am just trying to say there are a LOT of reasons outside of what many are hinting at that could have been why the judge had the daughters phone number.

Just today I was starting to wonder about a possible affair angle as well.

 

[Seattle1]

Was anyone standing in the hallway directly outside the judge's chambers when the shooting happened? If so, did they hear the shots? What did MS say or do as he walked out (other than turning around to shoot Judge Mullins again after he opened the door)? From the video, it looked like MS was putting his gun back (in a holster?) after the final shot. Imo.

The shooting is pretty fast. I'm sure others heard it but it still takes people a second or two to react. If people heard the shots & were thinking "active shooter", were they hunkering down in adjacent rooms, running through the halls to get outside or what?

Unfortunately, the lead investigator (Clayton Stamper, KSP) was very evasive here when asked these questions! He finally acknowledged that one or more of the four who had been inside the Chambers before they left and Stines entered were outside the Chambers but it's unknow what if anything they heard.

 

[Soulmagent]

Also interesting the defense was asking the detective about apps that might be on the judges phone. It seemed to me he was suggesting that people can communicate different ways other than calls/texts and were they looking at that angle and he said once the initial download is done, they might have to issue other warrants for those things.

I am thinking they should have taken the daughters phone for this very reason as well. I wonder if they can get info from say FB or other apps without having the physical phone?

if there was an 'investigation into other crimes and warrants were sealed because of whatever reason could there be evidence LE is aware of but does not want to let the defense know? Are they protected from releasing that ?

 

[justtrish]

Unfortunately, the lead investigator (Clayton Stamper, KSP) was very evasive here when asked these questions! He finally acknowledged that one or more of the four who had been inside the Chambers before they left and Stines entered were outside the Chambers but it's unknow what if anything they heard.

He did say it's his understanding one of them mentioned hearing someone say help or help me.. but it didn't sound like Judge Mullins.

It sounds like he was hesitant at first to comment on things he had no direct connection to, but then the attorney reminded him it was a preliminary hearing and hearsay was allowed. It is his job as the lead to know the ins and outs of what was going on so for him to struggle so much with stating things that were known to this point did seem odd. Maybe it was just being leery not to misstate things he didn't hear himself or see himself?

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I disagree currently about the extreme emotional defense bit.

But I would like to get your thoughts on the bit Stines said about "they are trying to abduct kidnap my wife and kid" business and how that factors in to the idea that his motive (whether he was correct or not) seems to be about his daughter. Because that has me stymied and I cannot for the life of me figure out what MS may have meant by making that statement upon turning himself in.

Beats the heck outta me! Who are the "they" in his statement?

 

[Seattle1]

The fact that the judge had Stines' minor child's phone number in his phone immediately sent up a red flag to me.
Babysitting? The judge's daughters appear to be either the same age or older than Stines' kid.
Family friends? None of my husband's friends or colleagues ever had any of my minor daughters phone numbers in their phone.

If there is a legit reason for the judge to have that girl's personal phone number in his phone, I'm not seeing it.

jmo

My understanding from today's actual testimony was that that 1) Stines first called his daughter from his phone, and 2) Stines next used Mullins phone to call his daughter.

There was nothing said whether or not the daughter answered either phone call, or that the daughter's phone number was stored on Mullins phone. Of course, Stines could have manually dialed his daughters phone number. JMO

ETA: the daughters phone number was in reference to confirming that Stines did in fact call his daughter from Mullins phone

 

[tlcya]

Beats the heck outta me! Who are the "they" in his statement?

that is the 100K question I think. Who is they and what were they doing or what did the sheriff THINK they were doing??

 

[justtrish]

I hope I can state a theory based on what little evidence we have thus far, as it relates to the comment about the sheriff saying "they are trying to take my wife and daughter." I am wondering if there is a chance that the judge was having an affair with the wife of the sheriff. Or maybe even more innocently, perhaps there was trouble in the family and the judge was intervening as a friend. Sometimes, when 2 families are close and something goes awry, perhaps the mom and daughter may reach out to the "uncle" to help out in the situation. I guess I am just trying to say there are a LOT of reasons outside of what many are hinting at that could have been why the judge had the daughters phone number.

We know that the sheriff was having some type of issue in the months prior to the shooting. He didn't plan to seek reelection and it's been said he was going to retire. We know he had this deposition on that Monday before the shooting.

So I think it's possible something was going on with him that caused his family to reach out to Judge Mullins to try to help him or to make him aware of how bad it was. Maybe they were working with him to try to get the sheriff some help for something?? Losing weight and not sleeping along with paranoia could be drugs or some other addiction? That could lead someone to not run again and to retire. Maybe the family was reaching out to Mullins and not the other way around?

 

[Soulmagent]

I disagree currently about the extreme emotional defense bit.

But I would like to get your thoughts on the bit Stines said about "they are trying to abduct kidnap my wife and kid" business and how that factors in to the idea that his motive (whether he was correct or not) seems to be about his daughter. Because that has me stymied and I cannot for the life of me figure out what MS may have meant by making that statement upon turning himself in.

I dont disagree , I think some peoples emotional breaks look different . We have not even heard from MS .
It goes to motive . Was he motivated to murder was the motivation a thing that should be considering at sentencing ?
The grand jury happening will be way more important to be prepared for and I think this Lawyer has a very rough draft of the day the murder happened so far.
But the phone of the lunch