Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024

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MassGuy said:
They would be able to get a warrant if they had reason to believe that phone contained evidence of a crime.

So a couple things could be going on here: They know for a fact that phone is unrelated, and contains no evidence (like it would if something was going on between the judge and daughter).

They are sloppy. Normally I wouldn’t seriously consider this, but that lead detective came across as a bit of a dolt.
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I didn't perceive him to be a dolt. I think they just had the video, knew that was enough after consultation with the prosecutor and there has not been enough time to gather the exculpatory evidence that the defense was fishing for.
 
vls12345 said:
www.wkyt.com

For Context | Why did outgoing Letcher County sheriff retire and not resign?

According to the retirement letter submitted to the governor by Stines’s attorney, he says Stines served the people of Letcher County for 22 years.
www.wkyt.com www.wkyt.com
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That's kind of a silly headline question-- why retire and not resign?

First, even before the shooting, Stines had announced he would not be running for another term for Sheriff and said he was going to retire. He also said he was thinking about attending law school. Fast forward to this date, Stines is now incarcerated, most likely for the rest of his life, without the ability seek gainful employment and/or earn any income. He has a wife and a minor child that are financially dependent on him. Reportedly, an employee with 20 or more years of service credit may retire with no reduction in benefits. This is presuming Mickey Stines was paying into that program his entire career with Letcher County. Also, should Stines be executed, or die in prison, his named beneficiary will collect his retirement benefits I'd say it was a no brainer. JMO
 
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Seattle1 said:
That's kind of a silly headline question-- why retire and not resign?
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Rsbm.

A lot of people, especially ones who don't have experience with a county, state, or federal retirement system, might not have any idea of the benefits that retirement often brings for folks in those categories.

I think they were just providing some basic info for their viewing audience because I would guess that there are plenty of people who have never thought about the difference between retiring & resigning, the monetary &/or tax implications, etc.

MOO.
 
Allabouttrial said:
DEFENSE - So are there photographs of... was the phone unlocked at that point, or was it still open?
...
DEFENSE - Yeah so I'd like to know about that, have you ascertained what was currently open on that cell phone?
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I found these statements by the defense kind of interesting. What was on the judge's phone at the moment he was shot? The detective said he didn't know, but the defense seems to be suggesting it was a picture of some kind.
 
ch_13 said:
I found these statements by the defense kind of interesting. What was on the judge's phone at the moment he was shot? The detective said he didn't know, but the defense seems to be suggesting it was a picture of some kind.
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I don’t understand why the state hasn’t handed over the entire video without edits. It gave the defense an opening to suggest some kind of foul actions.
 
MassGuy said:
They would be able to get a warrant if they had reason to believe that phone contained evidence of a crime.

So a couple things could be going on here: They know for a fact that phone is unrelated, and contains no evidence (like it would if something was going on between the judge and daughter).

They are sloppy. Normally I wouldn’t seriously consider this, but that lead detective came across as a bit of a dolt.
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With all due respect, they only have scope to investigate Mickey Stines at this point. They can seize the judge's phone because he is a dead victim. They can seize the sheriff's phone after arrest. But invading the privacy of a minor who is not suspected of a crime seems like a huge stretch and I doubt a judge would authorize a search warrant unless something from the searches of the judges or sheriff's phones turns up something to make a search of Lila's phone important (to prosecution or defense). The defense MAY be able to get a warrant for the daughter's and wife's phones for exculpatory information but I think that is a stretch as well.

I mentioned that I am FB friends with someone who is friends with the judge's sister. Can my phone be seized because that connections means they suspect I was in contact with the judge or maybe the underage daughter?

Things can only stretch so far!

Having "reason to believe" is not enough for a warrant
 
So far the theory I am running with is that maybe, hypothetically, the sheriff's wife & daughter left him recently due to issues at home... this judge handled DV cases... And the judge was trying to help them get away. Seems like just maybe the sheriff called his daughter from his phone and she didn't answer, so he called from judges phone and she answered, which set him off and caused him to murder his friend AND make the "trying to kidnap my wife & kid" comments he made to deputies at the jail (per the lead detective on the stand in the prelim. hearing).

Defense SEEMS to be painting a portrait of the judge potentially being inappropriate with sheriff's daughter, and was trying to get across that evidence of that could potentially be within apps on the judge's phone AND the daughter's phone instead of the usual phone records.

Either could be true, neither could be true, or both could be true.
 
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Audrina said:
So far the theory I am running with is that maybe, hypothetically, the sheriff's wife & daughter left him recently due to issues at home... this judge handled DV cases... And the judge was trying to help them get away. Seems like the sheriff called his daughter from his phone and she didn't answer, so he called from judges phone and she answered, which set him off and caused him to murder his friend AND make the "trying to kidnap my wife & kid" comments he made to deputies at the jail (per the lead detective on the stand in the prelim. hearing).

Defense SEEMS to be painting a portrait of the judge potentially being inappropriate with sheriff's daughter, and was trying to get across that evidence of that could potentially be within apps on the judge's phone AND the daughter's phone instead of the usual phone records.

Either could be true, neither could be true, or both could be true.
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In addition, there is higher instances of domestic violence amongst cops and their families.

Research suggests that family violence is two to four times higher in the law-enforcement community than in the general population. Several studies have found that the romantic partners of police officers suffer domestic abuse at rates significantly higher than the general population. And while all partner abuse is unacceptable, it is especially problematic when domestic abusers are literally the people that battered and abused women are supposed to call for help.

Joshua Boren, a Utah police officer, "killed his wife, their two children, his mother-in-law and then himself" after receiving "text messages ... hours earlier threatening to leave him and take their kids and confronting him for raping her."


As the National Center for Women and Policing noted, "Two studies have found that at least 40 percent of police officer families experience domestic violence, in contrast to 10 percent of families in the general population. A third study of older and more experienced officers found a rate of 24 percent, indicating that domestic violence is two to four times more common among police families than American families in general." Cops "typically handle cases of police family violence informally, often without an official report, investigation, or even check of the victim's safety," the summary continues. "This 'informal' method is often in direct contradiction to legislative mandates and departmental policies regarding the appropriate response to domestic violence crimes." Finally, "even officers who are found guilty of domestic violence are unlikely to be fired, arrested, or referred for prosecution."

--

if my theory is correct (again... hypothetically... this is all a matter of discussion and none of us know what happened yet) it suggests that the judge was trying to handle the matter sensitively and perhaps convince his friend the sheriff to seek some help or something of that nature, and still remain sheriff - since, as the above states, LE tends to handle in-house DV, well... in house.
 
Has it been verified the daughter is a minor? The daughter in the 6 yo video looked like a teenager and I’m doubtful she’d be younger than 18 today. Additionally the daughter at the courthouse looked to be older than 17.
 
My current theory, based upon snippets of various comments, etc:

Stine had a very hot temper and his wife was filing for divorce because of his outbursts. She was afraid of him so she went to Judge M for help. He got her a Protective Order and he exchanged numbers with wife and daughter in case they needed help because they couldn't call LE because of Stine.

When he found out he was livid and felt his friend, the Judge he worked with as a bailiff for years, betrayed him by approving the Protective Order, labelling him as an abuser. JMO
 
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MassGuy said:
His non-answer was an answer. If the daughter wasn’t part of the motive, I believe he would have firmly shot it down. He did not.
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Right, but there are ways for her to be part of the motive, without it being the same as the initial rumours.

There is a possibility that Stine has a very bad temper at home, and Mother and daughter were trying to escape him, and went to the judge for help. He may have signed a Protective Order and was working with them to keep them safe so wife could file for divorce.

Stine would have seen that as a real betrayal. Many angry husbands shoot those who try to help the wives escape the marriage. JMO
 
Vaderman said:
This was where my mind went when reading about placing the calls. That he manually typed in the number and when (and possibly what?) it popped up as a saved contact on the Judge's phone, the murder commenced.
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If Mullins had the Sheriff’s daughter’s phone number saved as a contact under a name other than her own, that, IMO, would make me feel something was going on that shouldn’t be. I’m not saying this is what happened, but if it did, it would be concerning.
 
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