Kidnapping Charges

[lovinlife83]

It's definitely a waste of resources. I'm glad it was granted though because later when the jury hopefully finds him guilty, and he tries to appeal - this will be one less thing they can argue about.

 

[jillycat]

I think it's simply another step in defense strategy that's routine for a court. If it was me or my loved one, I would want my lawyer severing the offenses. It's the overlap that opens the door to guilty on both offenses, i.e., 'if he lied, then it must also be true that he kidnapped, since the lie is predicated on the greater crime'. So, I see why the defense wants this, and why a judge would sever.

I think it can also work the other way. Think about it...it could be that the defense has a good case against the obstruction charge. If that's true, it could weaken the greater case in the mind of the jury.

My feeling is that the pay phone call may take care of far more than the Obstruction charge could ever do. If there's then even more damage coming from the video expert, the lie he told may be a blip on the screen anyway.

 

[Hatfield]

Ruh Ro. I think that was a terrible and very serious decision by the judge granting the defense wishes to have a separate trial for the Obstruction charge. This has renewed my feelings about this judge being a favorite for the defense.

This is terrible and here is why.

Many reasons and they all favor the defense. This was sneaky defense strategy and the judge should have never allowed this.
First lets review the reason for Obstruction.

"Moorer’s obstruction of justice charge stems from those statements, which allege Moorer initially told detectives that he did not use a pay phone after Elvis’ disappearance. He then changed his statements and told police he did use the pay phone, said Martin Spratlin, the assistant solicitor."

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/news/local/crime/article83905782.html

The reasons this is really bad what the judge just decided.

(1) The defense now has 2 chances to get declared not guilty by using one case against the other.

Lets assume in this first trial he is found guilty. Now lets assume the 2nd obstruction trial gets under way and for whatever reason he is found not guilty. Then all of a sudden the first verdict can be appealed based on the fact there was no obstruction from the 2nd. The defense will find a way to use the one case against the other.

(2) It is very common for trials to have multiple charges and especially when the charges relate to the same case. In this situation the obstruction charge is a simple issue for the trial to be resolved by the jury as part of the same trial for abduction. He either lied to investigators about the call at first or he didnt. And it is an important part of the case for the jury to know about the call. So all evidence about that phone call will be brought out regardless.

So IMO the judge had no basis to make this a big deal requiring a whole separate trial. This is just ridiculous and has me very concerned about this judge.

The obstruction charge is part of the same case and had no reason to be separated from it.

The judge has now made 2 cases out of one and this concerns me terribly. Its almost like if a person went into a store to robbed 2 people. There would be 2 charges of theft against 2 different people. They would not separate the cases because the actions were all part of same case. The jury is not dumb. THey can handle both.

(3) the fact that he lied about the call is a very important part of this case. It shows he tried to lie to investigators to cover up that he contacted Heather. This fact will help the jury decide his guilt of the abduction charge. The jury NEEDS to know all about that phone call. They need the facts and everything about.
So again WTH is the judge thinking that we need 2 cases for this. Its the same case.

Good Grief. I am really concerned and we haven't even got started yet.

BTW
Thanks everyone for keeping this case and thread current.

 

[ZooSleuth]

I think it's simply another step in defense strategy that's routine for a court. If it was me or my loved one, I would want my lawyer severing the offenses. It's the overlap that opens the door to guilty on both offenses, i.e., 'if he lied, then it must also be true that he kidnapped, since the lie is predicated on the greater crime'. So, I see why the defense wants this, and why a judge would sever.

I think it can also work the other way. Think about it...it could be that the defense has a good case against the obstruction charge. If that's true, it could weaken the greater case in the mind of the jury.

My feeling is that the pay phone call may take care of far more than the Obstruction charge could ever do. If there's then even more damage coming from the video expert, the lie he told may be a blip on the screen anyway.

Ya, let them have their separate trials. If SM really changed his story in the same conversation with LE where he lied, that unfortunately may be in his favor when it comes to sentencing on that charge if he is found guilty. I wouldn't expect him to get much time on that charge, if any, no matter when it's tried.

 

[Renee110]

It should be on this one around 19:26 [video=youtube;kigfFoaGrYg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kigfFoaGrYg[/video]

Right before he smiles at the girl, he takes a drink of water and he holds his cup the same way Jodi Arias does!

 

[seattlechiquita]

SO happy this is being held accountable for part of his true crimes. I look forward full on guilty verdicts.

 

[jillycat]

Ruh Ro. I think that was a terrible and very serious decision by the judge granting the defense wishes to have a separate trial for the Obstruction charge. This has renewed my feelings about this judge being a favorite for the defense.

This is terrible and here is why.

Many reasons and they all favor the defense. This was sneaky defense strategy and the judge should have never allowed this.
First lets review the reason for Obstruction.

"Moorer’s obstruction of justice charge stems from those statements, which allege Moorer initially told detectives that he did not use a pay phone after Elvis’ disappearance. He then changed his statements and told police he did use the pay phone, said Martin Spratlin, the assistant solicitor."

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/news/local/crime/article83905782.html

The reasons this is really bad what the judge just decided.

(1) The defense now has 2 chances to get declared not guilty by using one case against the other.

Lets assume in this first trial he is found guilty. Now lets assume the 2nd obstruction trial gets under way and for whatever reason he is found not guilty. Then all of a sudden the first verdict can be appealed based on the fact there was no obstruction from the 2nd. The defense will find a way to use the one case against the other.

(2) It is very common for trials to have multiple charges and especially when the charges relate to the same case. In this situation the obstruction charge is a simple issue for the trial to be resolved by the jury as part of the same trial for abduction. He either lied to investigators about the call at first or he didnt. And it is an important part of the case for the jury to know about the call. So all evidence about that phone call will be brought out regardless.

So IMO the judge had no basis to make this a big deal requiring a whole separate trial. This is just ridiculous and has me very concerned about this judge.

The obstruction charge is part of the same case and had no reason to be separated from it.

The judge has now made 2 cases out of one and this concerns me terribly. Its almost like if a person went into a store to robbed 2 people. There would be 2 charges of theft against 2 different people. They would not separate the cases because the actions were all part of same case. The jury is not dumb. THey can handle both.

(3) the fact that he lied about the call is a very important part of this case. It shows he tried to lie to investigators to cover up that he contacted Heather. This fact will help the jury decide his guilt of the abduction charge. The jury NEEDS to know all about that phone call. They need the facts and everything about.
So again WTH is the judge thinking that we need 2 cases for this. Its the same case.

Good Grief. I am really concerned and we haven't even got started yet.

BTW
Thanks everyone for keeping this case and thread current.

I think because we're staunch advocates for justice for Heather and peace for her family (to the extent that a family can find even relative peace after the tragic death of a child), we view successful defense strategy as sneaky or underhanded. I did some research after I heard about this latest event because I wondered to what extent severance occurs in criminal cases. There are scores of cases, and I won't link to any because this is about Heather's case, but this issue of enjoining vs severing is commonly taken up by courts. From what I saw in the information I came across, both joinder and severance can be potentially either advantageous or prejudicial to the defendant.

It also appeared from what I read that a defense can't get one or the other simply because it might improve chances for acquittal of his or her client.

I say this without a shred of compassion for the M's. But I always try to look at a case and its rulings through the lens of the rule of law, however disappointed I might be at any advantage given to a perpetrator. To that extent, I don't see defense lawyers as "bad" and prosecutors as "good". I see our system of justice and the provisions for presumption of innocence, along with the burden of proof placed on the state, as essential to the justice we pursue. Again, if it was me or my loved one, I would insist that my counsel provide what his representation of me under the law and his own professional code demand - a vigorous defense of me at every turn.

I don't personally care about the M's. They could both be hung from the highest tree in SC today for all I care about them as individuals, because they are, based on what I see, cold blooded murderers. However, my personal sentiments and emotional desire to see them suffer is precisely why we have the system we do. So I can only conclude that if we are going to have courts of law and a system that safeguards the rights of the accused while seeking justice for their victims, we are stuck with legal strategies that legal protections of the accused not only allow, but demand from defense in criminal matters.

Extending that point a little farther, I definitely don't want to see either M sucking more resources on any future claim that their counsel failed to adequately defend them, or pursue available strategies to free them, or prejudiced them in some way. And these two are candidates for advancing their victimology as far as the court system can take them.

I believe that the state has a case or doesn't whether or not SM lied initially about contact with Heather. The pay phone is a pretty credible witness.

JMO

 

[Surfside]

I think because we're staunch advocates for justice for Heather and peace for her family (to the extent that a family can find even relative peace after the tragic death of a child), we view successful defense strategy as sneaky or underhanded. I did some research after I heard about this latest event because I wondered to what extent severance occurs in criminal cases. There are scores of cases, and I won't link to any because this is about Heather's case, but this issue of enjoining vs severing is commonly taken up by courts. From what I saw in the information I came across, both joinder and severance can be potentially either advantageous or prejudicial to the defendant.

It also appeared from what I read that a defense can't get one or the other simply because it might improve chances for acquittal of his or her client.

I say this without a shred of compassion for the M's. But I always try to look at a case and its rulings through the lens of the rule of law, however disappointed I might be at any advantage given to a perpetrator. To that extent, I don't see defense lawyers as "bad" and prosecutors as "good". I see our system of justice and the provisions for presumption of innocence, along with the burden of proof placed on the state, as essential to the justice we pursue. Again, if it was me or my loved one, I would insist that my counsel provide what his representation of me under the law and his own professional code demand - a vigorous defense of me at every turn.

I don't personally care about the M's. They could both be hung from the highest tree in SC today for all I care about them as individuals, because they are, based on what I see, cold blooded murderers. However, my personal sentiments and emotional desire to see them suffer is precisely why we have the system we do. So I can only conclude that if we are going to have courts of law and a system that safeguards the rights of the accused while seeking justice for their victims, we are stuck with legal strategies that legal protections of the accused not only allow, but demand from defense in criminal matters.

Extending that point a little farther, I definitely don't want to see either M sucking more resources on any future claim that their counsel failed to adequately defend them, or pursue available strategies to free them, or prejudiced them in some way. And these two are candidates for advancing their victimology as far as the court system can take them.

I believe that the state has a case or doesn't whether or not SM lied initially about contact with Heather. The pay phone is a pretty credible witness.

JMO

"Thanks" seems inadequate. Thank you for the time and effort researching, and thank you for such a thoughtful and well-worded post.

 

[bestill]

The clock is ticking, justice for Heather is coming! Check out fb when you have time, there's a lot of memory photos that have been posted today.

 

[Motherof5]

It's about that time. Cannot wait to get this trial started!!

 

[byo]

counting down the days.... (respectfully updated)

June 2 – Questionnaires are due

June 3 – List given to the sheriff’s offense on no responses

June 13 through June 17 – Final hearing dates for any and all pretrial matters that need to be resolved prior to trial.

June 17 – Attorneys to provide witness list to the court

June 20 – Jury panel arrives and the qualification process begins. A jury will be chosen and the trial will begin upon qualification of the panel.

June 27 – Trial continues if necessary

bumping our timeline.

 

[Rhino-Esq]

Do any locals know about whether there will be a live stream tomorrow or as soon as the jury is set? I can't find anything on the usual local media sites/twitter accounts. I did see that the family thinks jury selection will be over by Tuesday or Wednesday.

 

[TTF14]

Do any locals know about whether there will be a live stream tomorrow or as soon as the jury is set? I can't find anything on the usual local media sites/twitter accounts. I did see that the family thinks jury selection will be over by Tuesday or Wednesday.

I don't have a link but I read somewhere that jury selection will not be live streamed, but the trial will be.

 

[yupikgirl]

sounds like from TM latest post on FB she is still in Florida. I guess she's not going to be there for the jury selection ...I'm sure at the advice of his attorney. If so I'm surprised she listened.


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[TTF14]

sounds like from TM latest post on FB she is still in Florida. I guess she's not going to be there for the jury selection ...I'm sure at the advice of his attorney. If so I'm surprised she listened.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wonder if she'll be there for the trial at all.

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[Madeleine74]

Jury selection/voir dire is not usually streamed. It was in FL during the Anthony trial, with some things blacked out including any image of the potential jury members. However, in the vast number of trials we see or discuss on this board, jury selection is not filmed or streamed and is only reported by media in the courtroom.

 

[atthelake]

What city will the trial be at?

 

[pinkinablueworld]

I have jury duty tomorrow!! Too bad I'm in Pensacola, Florida, lol.

 

[Hoosgirl]

Can't believe the day is finally here. I look forward to hearing the evidence revealed!

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[Coldpizza]

Sidney Moorer on trial for the kidnapping of Heather Elvis - June 20, 2016

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-the-kidnapping-of-Heather-Elvis-June-20-2016