Kiomarie and other issues

[Brini]

Ah, thank you-No PL thread necessary, in addition to the things you have pointed out, I imagine that if there were these issues, we would have seen or heard something on this by now anyway.

Yep! The media.. at least the tabloids, woulda been on it like wallpaper.

KC couldn't tell the truth if it was tattooed on her forehead!

Later, honey! XXXXOOOO

 

[seagull65]

I'm guessing you are dead right, in your last sentence.

AEB:

1) KC has never accused Kio, and has no reason to keep silent.
2) There is no evidence whatsoever against Kio, or anyone else but KC, and
3) Neither county nor federal LE appear to have Kio on the radar, and they have seen ALL the evidence.


And, as we discussed, it's likely that Kio won't even be called to testify.

point 1: that's true, KC has not accused anyone. I don't know whether she has reason to keep silent or not, she could have good reason. I do know she has a lot of good reasons to speak up but hasn't.

point 2: true, KC was identified as a suspect very early and only KC was investigated in any depth. A few people were asked to provide phone and computer records. No one else's vehicles, yard, homes, boats, other properties etc investigated with cadaver dogs or luminol or anything else (except the back of TL's jeep sprayed with luminol, his shoes sprayed with luminol....okay, so Caylee didn't bleed in the back of his jeep or on those pairs of his shoes, that's established..) Many people were only interviewed, even people whose house Caylee had stayed in, some people weren't even interviewed.
So far there's the air signature in the trunk (not necessarily human but could be), the hair from the trunk (we'll see what is said at trial), and the fact that items originally from the A home were with Caylee. These could establish at trial that Caylee was in Casey's trunk, or maybe not. If she were, that doesn't necessarily mean that Casey was the killer but could mean she was involved in disposing of the body. Neither does her compulsive lying problem necessarily mean that she was involved in any crime, though it could. She certainly could be the perp, but those things don't necessarily mean that she is, that's obvious. Though her compulsive lying problem or failure to tell LE the truth has definitely convicted her in the public eye and could very well convict her at trial, too. Now at trial maybe much more evidence will be presented that shows Casey as the murderer, or otherwise.

point 3: True, Casey seems to have been the only one on LE's radar really since they first interviewed her and certainly since charging her, with a very brief bit of investigation into Ricardo and KC's family, but very little into anyone else. They seem to have ruled TL out based on a polygraph. Polygraphs don't show guilt or innocence or lies vs. truth. They only tell if someone is upset about what they are saying. People who don't care or who feel justified such as psychopaths, people who are on meds or drugs, people who aren't asked enough questions or questions that happen to upset them, can pass a polygraph even if they are guilty and lying. They are not admissable in court for that reason. There doesn't seem to have been any further investigation into TL. Most others were not investigated at all. Phone and computer records are important of course for general info, if they look at all the records and not just texts between those people and KC, but a killer surely wouldn't have mentioned the fact they killed Caylee on the phone or their computer, nor would they mention it to KC.

But anyway, back to the topic of Kio's official statements, the change in her statement is very interesting. It's so unlikely that she could talk to Casey A on the phone July 9 and think it was some different Casey, like she wouldn't know the difference between her two friends while talking to them, and Kio even said Casey A referenced in the phone call how they'd seen each other in April and Kio had said she could call if she ever needed help....Kio says she heard Caylee talking to Casey and saying Mommy, mommy, etc, and says, "That was the last time I ever heard Caylee."

If it hadn't been Casey A, why would Kio have told B that it was? Then, still knowing it was Casey A, Kio calls LE and gives lots of detail about the phone call with Casey A and having heard Caylee during the phone call. If she had any doubt about it being Casey A, surely she would have checked before calling the police.
But then when asked to provide phone records, Kio suddenly changes her story to, oh I'm so sorry hon, it was a different Casey, woops, it was my other friend Casey W! Completely different person! ha ha

Let me say, that although I find Kio's tone strangely breezy and casual in the interviews, and the change in her official statement very interesting, she seems like a nice person. I like her in the interviews. Though she does sound a bit like a Casey clone as one poster here put it! (With the strange, excessive detail about unrelated things and so on.) But she sounds nice.

It's interesting how Casey W purportedly also has a daughter born when she was a teenager, worked at an amusement park with Kio also, I guess Kio must have also run into her in April and told her she could call if she ever needed help? Or when talking to Casey A in the Walmart was she not sure if she was Casey A or Casey W? Wonder if Kio had also asked Casey W if she could adopt her daughter? Maybe Kio also hung out with her in a different school yard when they were 13? ha ha

Also, the speech on the part of the child that Kio describes having heard on the phone, sounds like the speech of a 2 1/2 year old, not a 6 or 7 year old, which is how old Casey W's child would be since Kio said she was born when Casey W was 17 and she's now 23 or 24. So, interesting anyway. Still waiting to see what was found in the phone record.

 

[Tuffy]

point 1: that's true, KC has not accused anyone.
point 2: true, KC was identified as a suspect very early and only KC was investigated in any depth. A few people were asked to provide phone and computer records. No one else's vehicles, yard, homes, boats, other properties etc investigated with cadaver dogs or luminol or anything else (except the back of TL's jeep sprayed with luminol, his shoes sprayed with luminol....okay, so Caylee didn't bleed in the back of his jeep or on those pairs of his shoes, that's established..) Many people were only interviewed, even people whose house Caylee had stayed in, some people weren't even interviewed.
So far there's the air signature in the trunk (not necessarily human but could be), the hair from the trunk (we'll see what is said at trial), and the fact that items originally from the A home were with Caylee. These could establish at trial that Caylee was in Casey's trunk, or maybe not. If she were, that doesn't necessarily mean that Casey was the killer but could mean she was involved in disposing of the body. Neither does her compulsive lying problem necessarily mean that she was involved in any crime, though it could. She certainly could be the perp, but those things don't necessarily mean that she is, that's obvious. Though her compulsive lying problem or failure to tell LE the truth has definitely convicted her in the public eye and could very well convict her at trial, too. Now at trial maybe much more evidence will be presented that shows Casey as the murderer, or otherwise.

point 3: True, LE have seemed to have mainly just KC on the radar since they first interviewed her and certainly since charging her, with a very brief bit of investigation into Ricardo and KC's family, but very little into anyone else. They seem to have ruled TL out based on a polygraph. Polygraphs don't show guilt or innocence or lying vs. truthtelling. They are not admissable in court for that reason. There doesn't seem to have been any further investigation into TL. Most others were not investigated at all. Phone and computer records are important of course for general info, if they look at all the records and not just texts between those people and KC, but a killer surely wouldn't have mentioned the fact they killed Caylee on the phone or their computer, nor would they mention it to KC.

But anyway, back to the Kio topic, the change in her statement is very interesting. It's so unlikely that she could talk to Casey A on the phone July 9 and think it was some different Casey, like she wouldn't know the difference between her two friends while talking to them, and Kio even said Casey A referenced in the phone call how they'd seen each other in April and Kio had said she could call if she ever needed help....Kio says she heard Caylee talking to Casey and saying Mommy, mommy, etc, and says, "That was the last time I ever heard Caylee."

If it hadn't been Casey A, why would Kio have told B that it was? Then, still knowing it was Casey A, Kio calls LE and gives lots of detail about the phone call with Casey A and having heard Caylee during the phone call. If she had any doubt about it being Casey A, surely she would have checked before calling the police.
But then when asked to provide phone records, Kio suddenly changes her story to, oh I'm so sorry hon, it was a different Casey, woops, it was my other friend Casey W! Completely different person! ha ha

Let me say, that although I find Kio's tone strangely breezy and casual in the interviews, and the change in her official statement very interesting, she seems like a nice person, though, I like her in the interviews. Though she does sound a bit like a Casey clone as one poster here put it! (With the strange, excessive detail about unrelated things and so on.) But she sounds nice.

It's interesting how Casey W turns out to also have a daughter born when she was a teenager, worked at an amusement park with Kio also, I guess Kio must have also told her she could call if she ever needed help. Wonder if Kio had asked her if she could adopt her daughter, too? Maybe Kio also hung out with her in a different school yard when they were 13? ha ha

Also, the speech on the part of the child that Kio heard on the phone, sounds like the speech of a 2 1/2 year old, not a 6 or 7 year old, which is how old Casey W's child would be since Kio said she was born when Casey W was 17 and she's now 23 or 24. So, interesting anyway. We'll see.

Hi Seagull,

I love your posts, they are very thorough, but.....

On point one, BBM, Casey most certainly did accuse someone! ZFG.

Casey was considered a suspect immediately following the wild goose chase and interview with LE. No ZFG existed. Everything Casey told them was a lie.

FWIW- my opinion of Kio is that she is an airhead. The only info that she provided to LE that might have been helpful was her suspicion that Casey may have disposed of Caylee behind the school. (she wasn't too far off)

 

[seagull65]

I agree, not only is it far fetched to believe that KMTC didn't know who she was talking to, but the reason for wanting to borrow said money from doesn't fit in any way, shape or form with thinking the caller was Casey A. According to KMTC, Casey W. wanted to borrow money to move back to where her mom lived in another state so she could escape an abusive boyfriend. In NO WAY would that request make any sense whatsoever if KMTC was talking to Casey A. KMTC knows where Cindy lives and she knows that Casey lives WITH her. She knows that Cindy lives on Hopespring and that Casey A would not need to move to another state to move in with her mom. See page 2:

http://cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Cruz Kiomarie phone call-0812.pdf

There is NO WAY, IMO, that KMTC could have mistaken such a request from Casey M. as being from Casey A.

another good point, PrincessRose. And you have added so many good points to this discussion, thank you.

 

[seagull65]

Question, of all the people who were interviewed by, or voluntarily gave info to LE, why does only Kio seem to be at issue? Others were inconsistent in their testimony.

And, at least two others of KC's friends spoke with the Enquirer.

But this thread is about KMT's statements / the change in her official statement. That just happens to be the topic of this thread. There are lots of other threads out there about Casey and others. I know Princess Rose is very fair in her discussion of everyone's interviews, and it's also very clear that she has never made any accusation toward Kio. Although some posts continue to try to make her either accuse Kio of a crime or stop discussing her official statements! (Which I find pretty funny. Obviously witnesses' official statements are very central to the case and will be discussed, especially on a site called Websleuths.)

 

[seagull65]

Hi Seagull,

I love your posts, they are very thorough, but.....

On point one, BBM, Casey most certainly did accuse someone! ZFG.

Casey was considered a suspect immediately following the wild goose chase and interview with LE. No ZFG existed. Everything Casey told them was a lie.

FWIW- my opinion of Kio is that she is an airhead. The only info that she provided to LE that might have been helpful was her suspicion that Casey may have disposed of Caylee behind the school. (she wasn't too far off)

You are so right about her accusing a ZFG, Tuffy!!!! ha ha Thank you! I meant that she's never ratted out someone else, never took a deal, etc.


p.s. everyone, Tuffy is a faster typist than I am. I was still adding some words to my post when Tuffy was already quoting it. So there are a few additions in my original. Doesn't change the part Tuffy was talking about!!!

 

[Brini]

Hi Seagull,

I love your posts, they are very thorough, but.....

On point one, BBM, Casey most certainly did accuse someone! ZFG.

Casey was considered a suspect immediately following the wild goose chase and interview with LE. No ZFG existed. Everything Casey told them was a lie.

FWIW- my opinion of Kio is that she is an airhead. The only info that she provided to LE that might have been helpful was her suspicion that Casey may have disposed of Caylee behind the school. (she wasn't too far off)

EXACTLY!

KC has not accused a REAL person, because there is no one to accuse. Bottom line.

IF she was not the killer (which, based on the evidence, is a HUGE "if") she'd better open that mendacious little mouth right now, or she's toast.

Her choice.

There are not going to be any Perry Mason moments at the trial. It's pretty much gonna be a war of the hired guns, IMHO.

LE hasn't issued any arrest warrants for anyone else, and we're getting close to the trial. Kio is not gonna be offered matching silvery bracelets, because she's confused about phone conversations.

LE goes where the evidence points.

In the highly unlikely event KC really did know something, and is keeping mum, she has only herself to blame.

 

[seagull65]

It's interesting how Casey W purportedly also has a daughter born when she was a teenager, worked at an amusement park with Kio also, I guess Kio must have also run into her in April and told her she could call if she ever needed help? Or when talking to Casey A in the Walmart was she not sure if she was Casey A or Casey W? Wonder if Kio had also asked Casey W if she could adopt her daughter? Maybe Kio also hung out with her in a different school yard when they were 13? ha ha

Also, the speech on the part of the child that Kio describes having heard on the phone, sounds like the speech of a 2 1/2 year old, not a 6 or 7 year old, which is how old Casey W's child would be since Kio said she was born when Casey W was 17 and she's now 23 or 24. So, interesting anyway. Still waiting to see what was found in the phone record.

I think this was the part I was still editing.

 

[Balthazar]

Doesn't seem likely that she will be called. Like TP is unlikely to be called.

No evidence that she has any direct knowledge of the crime.

I'm sure some people disapprove of her Enquirer interview. But, that doesn't seem material to the case, to me.

Question, of all the people who were interviewed by, or voluntarily gave info to LE, why does only Kio seem to be at issue? Others were inconsistent in their testimony.

And, at least two others of KC's friends spoke with the Enquirer.

Actually, I believe it would be beneficial to go over all the other LE interviews at this point in time. We know so much more now, it would be worthwhile to see what other inconsistencies/issues we might find.

 

[Balthazar]

Got you beat! I'm not sure with whom I spoke on the phone three days ago.

It's even worse if a lot of telephoning is part of one's job. Because one speaks with a lot of people.

I know I have to be careful not to get pharmacies and doctors mixed up, in my job. Also patients, if they have the same name.

Isn't that the case with Kio? Didn't she say she initially thought said KC was one of her clients?

Not exactly, she said the phone number that showed up on her phone was unknown to her so she thought it might be one of her clients and that's why she answered. She knew she was talking to Casey.

 

[Muzikman]

Actually, I believe it would be beneficial to go over all the other LE interviews at this point in time. We know so much more now, it would be worthwhile to see what other inconsistencies/issues we might find.

We could, but we have already done so, exhaustively. Respectfully, What's the point in doing so, Princess Rose?

I see no reason to help the defense by doing so again. They are really the only ones that have any need to do so at this point, IMO. And they have students that can do that for them.

 

[JBean]

Actually, I believe it would be beneficial to go over all the other LE interviews at this point in time. We know so much more now, it would be worthwhile to see what other inconsistencies/issues we might find.

We could do that! A thread for each.

We could, but we have already done so, exhaustively. Respectfully, What's the point in doing so, Princess Rose?

I see no reason to help the defense by doing so again. They are really the only ones that have any need to do so at this point, IMO. And they have students that can do that for them.

Make sure you bump old threads

 

[Brini]

We could, but we have already done so, exhaustively. Respectfully, What's the point in doing so, Princess Rose?

I see no reason to help the defense by doing so again. They are really the only ones that have any need to do so at this point, IMO. And they have students that can do that for them.

Good point!

 

[Balthazar]

We could, but we have already done so, exhaustively. Respectfully, What's the point in doing so, Princess Rose?

I see no reason to help the defense by doing so again. They are really the only ones that have any need to do so at this point, IMO. And they have students that can do that for them.

AL and LKB are brilliant attorneys. There is no way that anything we come up with here would be of any help to them whatsoever. I think it is silly for any of us to think that. Not only that, but they have a lot more information than we do. They have already planned out the defense and they have already started enacting that plan. They are not going to change plans based on the ramblings of a bunch of bloggers.

The advantage of reviewing witness testimony now is entirely for us to get a better understanding of how this trial may shape up and who will be the important witnesses.

For example, someone has started a thread on "Disturbing LA Quote" and that's another thread where interesting questions are being raised. There is a lot to be gained from re-reviewing the statements, IMO.

 

[Muzikman]

AL and LKB are brilliant attorneys. There is no way that anything we come up with here would be of any help to them whatsoever. I think it is silly for any of us to think that. Not only that, but they have a lot more information than we do. They have already planned out the defense and they have already started enacting that plan. They are not going to change plans based on the ramblings of a bunch of bloggers.

The advantage of reviewing witness testimony now is entirely for us to get a better understanding of how this trial may shape up and who will be the important witnesses.

For example, someone has started a thread on "Disturbing LA Quote" and that's another thread where interesting questions are being raised. There is a lot to be gained from re-reviewing the statements, IMO.

Respectfully, I beg to differ, Princess Rose. Researching a case like this to the Nth degree takes a LOT of people, time, effort and thinking. The defense doesn't have endless resources. What better way to look for prosecution holes and test possible theories out then on WS, where so many smart people are intimately familiar with the case? And have everything and everybody in the case organized by separate threads, where most other sites just have long, long general rambling threads where it's time consuming to find any reliable information.

I believe that everybody involved reads here - media, prosecution, defense, Anthony's. We have seen issues raised here show up in the "real world."

The defense is DESPERATE to find ANY little thing that could help get their client off, and I believe that it is unrealistic to think that they WOULDN'T be looking here, one of the best Casey Anthony case resources available anywhere. They would be foolish NOT to, IMO.


Collectively, we have sleuthed this case to the Nth degree, and I would guess that 90+% are satisfied that we have come to the right conclusions in most things. We already have a really good idea on how this trial is going to shape up, and what witnesses are going to be important.

And that's my :twocents: !

 

[Brini]

Respectfully, I beg to differ, Princess Rose. Researching a case like this to the Nth degree takes a LOT of people, time, effort and thinking. The defense doesn't have endless resources. What better way to look for prosecution holes and test possible theories out then on WS, where so many smart people are intimately familiar with the case? And have everything and everybody in the case organized by separate threads, where most other sites just have long, long general rambling threads where it's time consuming to find any reliable information.

I believe that everybody involved reads here - media, prosecution, defense, Anthony's. We have seen issues raised here show up in the "real world."

The defense is DESPERATE to find ANY little thing that could help get their client off, and I believe that it is unrealistic to think that they WOULDN'T be looking here, one of the best Casey Anthony case resources available anywhere. They would be foolish NOT to, IMO.


Collectively, we have sleuthed this case to the Nth degree, and I would guess that 90+% are satisfied that we have come to the right conclusions in most things. We already have a really good idea on how this trial is going to shape up, and what witnesses are going to be important.

And that's my :twocents: !

Which is why we are a little bored and Jonesing for a new doc dump.

If the defense DOES read here, they will quickly see that we have eliminated every, single, other person (though I really don't think, at this point, there will be any bus-throwing) and why. And, we beat the SODDI thing literally to death.

 

[JBean]

Remember folks, it is not up to us to decide what is or isn't worthy of discussion for others.
Just because many of us have discussed information early on, doesn't mean others aren't intersted in discussing it further or possibly for the first time.
New or old posters should not feel like they need approval to open a legitimate topic for discussion.Either the thread grows and people revisit or rehash, or they don't.

Do what I do, don't post if it is rehash of info that I just can't revisit any more LOL.

 

[Rlaub44]

Remember folks, it is not up to us to decide what is or isn't worthy of discussion for others.
Just because many of us have discussed information early on, doesn't mean others aren't intersted in discussing it further or possibly for the first time.
New or old posters should not feel like they need approval to open a legitimate topic for discussion.Either the thread grows and people revisit or rehash, or they don't.

Do what I do, don't post if it is rehash of info that I just can't revisit any more LOL.

Good advice JBean. Although I think many of us are waiting for the explanation portion. It is abundantly clear that a few posters are distrustful of Kio, yet we can't seem to get any answers as to why it matters.

It is being suggested that Kio had some nefarious purposes for reporting her concerns to LE, as if she were guilty of something. Many of us want to know why. I know some members here are still on the fence about KC's guilt, but what reason is given to look at Kio as the "Some Other Dude"?

Since we have a thread that is already 9 pages long, let's flesh this out a bit. What would Kio's motives be? Why in the world would KC have told such ridiculous stories that never included Kio as a suspect? Why should I consider a girl who comes off a bit scatter-brained as a more viable suspect than the child's mother who has lied continually and shown not a lick of remorse?

That is why it is so hard for many of us not to reply to this thread. The allegations against Kio seem baseless, comprised of whole-cloth speculation, unless someone can point us to these kinds of answers. We get it, a couple of you are suspicious of Kio, so please give us something to investigate. JMO

 

[sleutherontheside]

In the spirit of sleuthing I never see harm in revisiting old interviews with fresh perspective. I caution people doing so however, to be objective. Often when reviewing old info over and over and over, there can be a tendancy to start trying to make the info (interview, cell pings, etc...) fit a new theory. In doing so, we can stray further away from what is the best and most reasonable explanation. I do believe that the only show the defense will be able to put on is one to discredit witnesses, and create reasonable doubt. That said, pouring over old info over and over to anticipate what points the defense team will attack can be helpful and is likely what the State is doing on a daily basis.

 

[Balthazar]

Good advice JBean. Although I think many of us are waiting for the explanation portion. It is abundantly clear that a few posters are distrustful of Kio, yet we can't seem to get any answers as to why it matters.

It is being suggested that Kio had some nefarious purposes for reporting her concerns to LE, as if she were guilty of something. Many of us want to know why. I know some members here are still on the fence about KC's guilt, but what reason is given to look at Kio as the "Some Other Dude"?

Since we have a thread that is already 9 pages long, let's flesh this out a bit. What would Kio's motives be? Why in the world would KC have told such ridiculous stories that never included Kio as a suspect? Why should I consider a girl who comes off a bit scatter-brained as a more viable suspect than the child's mother who has lied continually and shown not a lick of remorse?

That is why it is so hard for many of us not to reply to this thread. The allegations against Kio seem baseless, comprised of whole-cloth speculation, unless someone can point us to these kinds of answers. We get it, a couple of you are suspicious of Kio, so please give us something to investigate. JMO

I don't think anyone is supicious of KMTC. I think that we have correctly pointed out how the information she gave LE is contradictory and that there would be a real problem if she were called to testify at Casey's trial. Why does it matter? Because some of us are trying to understand what this trial is likely to be like. Who testifies and who doesn't testify is a big part of that because it frames the entire storyline of the trial. It's really as simple as that. There is no hidden agenda.