Kiomarie and other issues

[Spangle]

Wow, I have a very different opinion. I don't think many people have been ruled out yet. Who else even had the cadaver dogs taken to their home, vehicles, storage unit, or anyplace else?

Who should they have? What did I miss?

I do know they don't just go everywhere, investigating everyone who walks by. They have to have a reason to invade a person like that. They have to explain WHY they should/have right to when they go before a Judge to get a search warrant.

Reading the LE interviews, etc.. and what the LE knew at the time, what evidence could they have used to do the types of searches on the folks you feel the LE didn't investigate enough to 'clear'?

I've not seen it. Yet you say they missed folks or didn't do a good enough job. I'm sure that is based upon stuff that you have learned, while researching this case. And that stuff is the sort of stuff the LE could have took to the judge. Please help me out by pointing it out. Cause I must of missed it.

 

[Brini]

from the motions the defense has filed, it's clear that they're desperate to find something they can hang their hat on and call it their defense.

I don't think the defense is going to be able to make the claim that someone else did it. I'm certain that le took all steps necessary to investigate everyone in this case, especially since they would have to know that the defense would make the claim that someone else did it.

From the onset, casey claimed the non - existent nanny kidnapped caylee - that was the first "somone else did it." so proceeding from this point, le thoroughly investigated every one - jg, tl, ah, rm, kio, and others, and eliminated them as suspects. The only suspect is sitting in the orange county jail.

Casey was arrested within the first 24 hours of the 911 call for obstruction of justice, child neglect, and lying to the police. But, that didn't stop le from investigation of all others. The investigation took time, and it was nearly three months later (minus one day) that the grand jury examined the evidence and indicted casey for murder.

While there's conflicting statements with kio, i don't think that will really have a bearing on the outcome of this case.

potd!

 

[Brini]

Wow, I have a very different opinion. I don't think many people have been ruled out yet. Who else even had the cadaver dogs taken to their home, vehicles, storage unit, or anyplace else?

Honey, there is no evidnce against anyone else.

Particularly no method or opportunity. Nobody had the baby BUT KC, or she would have said.

Also, the state does not proceed with murder charges, until possible others are ruled out.

And, no mother on the planet would refuse to report her baby missing. A REAL mother would want the killer prosecuted (if there WAS another one).

 

[Brini]

Who should they have? What did I miss?

I do know they don't just go everywhere, investigating everyone who walks by. They have to have a reason to invade a person like that. They have to explain WHY they should/have right to when they go before a Judge to get a search warrant.

Reading the LE interviews, etc.. and what the LE knew at the time, what evidence could they have used to do the types of searches on the folks you feel the LE didn't investigate enough to 'clear'?

I've not seen it. Yet you say they missed folks or didn't do a good enough job. I'm sure that is based upon stuff that you have learned, while researching this case. And that stuff is the sort of stuff the LE could have took to the judge. Please help me out by pointing it out. Cause I must of missed it.

Exactly!! No more warrants to search have been served. No further arrests have been made. The trial is coming right up.

The prosecution has a mountain of forensic and behavioral evidence.

KC's the ONLY suspect.

 

[Brini]

Does anyone believe Kio will be called to testify for either side? If so, why? What do you think Kio could offer either side?

No, and nada.

 

[Brini]

BBM

I agree with you completely, but I was wondering if we knew that they didn't take the dogs to other locations? I mean, I guess we don't know, but is it possible that the cadaver dogs were brought to other areas to search, and we just don't know that yet?

And for some reason, I am thinking that the dogs sniffed TL's car, or am I misremembering that?

IIRC, TL's car was sniffed (because KC had used it).

The dogs made a lot of searches, but I don't remember where.

I was in touch with one of the K-9 search teams, for awhile.

 

[Balthazar]

Which boyfriend do you think she wouldn't "rat out"? I think it's pretty clear the entire family tried to implicate JG and according to TMc's audio interview, TL was also deemed a "rat" or something similar.

I think you're misreading and misinterpreting the post. She's saying Casey wouldn't rat anybody out - a boyfriend is just an example of one of those people. It's not an accusation.

 

[lin]

I think you're misreading and misinterpreting the post. She's saying Casey wouldn't rat anybody out - a boyfriend is just an example of one of those people. It's not an accusation.

Thanks, but here's the exact quote:

"She wouldn't rat out any boyfriend or anything, so they thought she must be the killer."

It doesn't say 'she didn't rat out anyone' it says 'she wouldn't rat out a boyfriend or anything'. You may be correct as to the intent but that's not what was written.

Either way, the question remains: Exactly whom would she 'not rat out' that may have murdered her daughter? The fact also remains that she did accuse ZFG and tried to throw suspicion on at least JG if not others.

 

[Brini]

I think you're misreading and misinterpreting the post. She's saying Casey wouldn't rat anybody out - a boyfriend is just an example of one of those people. It's not an accusation.

KC wouldn't rat anybody out?

Sacrificing her own life and freedom for other people, doesn't sound like anything KC would do, to me.

More importantly, is it being suggested that she would be willing to sacrifice her baby's life and well-being for just anybody in her social circle, by keeping silent? That she "wouldn't rat out" anyone who might choose to kidnap, abuse, and murder her child, and then dump her body like garbage? Is there anything moral or honorable about not ratting out a baby-murderer?

If that was the case, it would appear that KC would be unworthy to mother a paramecium.


Then, we also have the question of why she tried to implicate the cleared JG? Wasn't that attempt a form of (untrue) "ratting out?'

And, how do we know, in any case, that KC would not "rat out?"

 

[JBean]

oh stop people.
If anyone had a post removed and would like to repost information and exclude any snarky backhanded insults go ahead. Please, do not complain to me if you think your post was removed in error.
Once again, probably more posts were deleted than necessary but I am not messing with edits and the like.

 

[Leila]

BBM

I agree with you completely, but I was wondering if we knew that they didn't take the dogs to other locations? I mean, I guess we don't know, but is it possible that the cadaver dogs were brought to other areas to search, and we just don't know that yet?

And for some reason, I am thinking that the dogs sniffed TL's car, or am I misremembering that?

I think everyone is going to be surprised when this case goes to trial at how much investigation detectives did into each of the friends and acquaintances of KC. They have to in order to rule out anyone else being involved.

They don't have to report this investigation as discovery to the defense and hence released to the public. It winds up being labeled as "field notes" or something like that. In other words, the prosecution has to hand over evidence of the crime to the defense as discovery. It doesn't have to hand over "no evidence of a crime" that resulted from their investigation into other individuals. So the prosecution may have done a lot more than just interviews and polygraphs on other people in their investigation and ruled them out based on what was found/not found.

LE would have been seriously remiss if they didn't thoroughly investigate everyone who had contact with Casey and Caylee in the months prior to Caylee's death. The Orange County Sheriffs Dept. has not shown any indication that they haven't done everything possible to determine who killed Caylee.

I'm sure that the OC detectives were certain within the first 24 hours who their prime suspect was, and had Casey in custody. But that didn't preclude them from doing a thorough investigation into what happened to Caylee, and determining if there were accomplices, etc. They didn't just say, "we've got our suspect" and dropped all further investigation. We've seen how thorough they've been.

At trial, if the defense tries to infer that some specific individual, other than Casey, did the crime, I believe the prosecution will have the information to refute that claim.

The only place it could really get muddy is if the defense makes the claim that another member of the family did the crime, and Casey is covering for them.

 

[Tuffy]

IIRC, TL's car was sniffed (because KC had used it).

The dogs made a lot of searches, but I don't remember where.

I was in touch with one of the K-9 search teams, for awhile.

Thank you. I thought I remembered such a thing, but so much information and so much time has passed.

I thought that there may have been more searches that turned up nothing, and that is why we haven't heard of them either.

 

[MissJames]

I think everyone is going to be surprised when this case goes to trial at how much investigation detectives did into each of the friends and acquaintances of KC. They have to in order to rule out anyone else being involved.

They don't have to report this investigation as discovery to the defense and hence released to the public. It winds up being labeled as "field notes" or something like that. In other words, the prosecution has to hand over evidence of the crime to the defense as discovery. It doesn't have to hand over "no evidence of a crime" that resulted from their investigation into other individuals. So the prosecution may have done a lot more than just interviews and polygraphs on other people in their investigation and ruled them out based on what was found/not found.

LE would have been seriously remiss if they didn't thoroughly investigate everyone who had contact with Casey and Caylee in the months prior to Caylee's death. The Orange County Sheriffs Dept. has not shown any indication that they haven't done everything possible to determine who killed Caylee.

I'm sure that the OC detectives were certain within the first 24 hours who their prime suspect was, and had Casey in custody. But that didn't preclude them from doing a thorough investigation into what happened to Caylee, and determining if there were accomplices, etc. They didn't just say, "we've got our suspect" and dropped all further investigation. We've seen how thorough they've been.

At trial, if the defense tries to infer that some specific individual, other than Casey, did the crime, I believe the prosecution will have the information to refute that claim.

The only place it could really get muddy is if the defense makes the claim that another member of the family did the crime, and Casey is covering for them.

yes,they even went so far as to research the dead squirrels and decomposing pizza.I feel certain they have ruled others,including Kiomarie, out in a thorough manner.

 

[treeseeker]

Resp snipped from lin's post:

Does anyone believe Kio will be called to testify for either side? If so, why? What do you think Kio could offer either side?


KMTC's statement could possibly provide the defense with a challenge to the timeline.

K volunteered the information to LE, then back-tracked with a somewhat plausible explanation. If the correct Casey W. was somehow confirmed off-record, then K's statement about July 9 is unimportant. If not, it could be used, along with JG's recollection and retraction of hearing Caylee over the phone to jumble the last date Caylee was seen/heard by anyone besides KC.

Defense could also make use of the NE video of K claiming she led police to the remains sight (disclaimer-I didn't watch this myself). I think this, even though many have an opinion about NE and K's motives for the interview, could well be part of the defense strategy.

My own opinion at this point is K probably embellished her statement and needed to back out when it came to real involvement via boyfriend's cell records. It wasn't a good idea.

 

[Brini]

Which is what they DID do. Remember the PI on the stand saying he was investigating the 'stuff' surrounding the disappearance of Caylee. That was why he was hired.

If they found anything, it would be turned over. What has been turned over? Nada.

They have the same list of folks the LE has and the opportunity to talk to KC for more names. More folks to investigate.

It is "THIS", is why the lawyers for ZFG wants to talk to the PI. Did he search for ZFG's? IF he didn't then it shows the defense wasn't even believing the ZFG story. Was he searching for persons who took the baby? If he wasn't, then the defense all ready knew the baby was dead.

The best evidence disappeared during the 31 days. OF course, we all know that. That aside, from the moment that KC hired JB, it was his job to be searching for evidence. If he failed to do his job, then it is his fault, not LE's.

Other potd

 

[lin]

Honey, there is no evidnce against anyone else.

Particularly no method or opportunity. Nobody had the baby BUT KC, or she would have said.

Also, the state does not proceed with murder charges, until possible others are ruled out.

And, no mother on the planet would refuse to report her baby missing. A REAL mother would want the killer prosecuted (if there WAS another one).

Exactly. They were not able to find sufficient evidence to suggest an accomplice, much less an alternate perpetrator.

 

[lin]

KC wouldn't rat anybody out?

Sacrificing her own life and freedom for other people, doesn't sound like anything KC would do, to me.

More importantly, is it being suggested that she would be willing to sacrifice her baby's life and well-being for just anybody in her social circle, by keeping silent? That she "wouldn't rat out" anyone who might choose to kidnap, abuse, and murder her child, and then dump her body like garbage? Is there anything moral or honorable about not ratting out a baby-murderer?

If that was the case, it would appear that KC would be unworthy to mother a paramecium.


Then, we also have the question of why she tried to implicate the cleared JG? Wasn't that attempt a form of (untrue) "ratting out?'

And, how do we know, in any case, that KC would not "rat out?"

3rd potd! Are y'all just getting so good that we're going to have to set an impossibly high bar for a 'potd'??

 

[lin]

Good advice JBean. Although I think many of us are waiting for the explanation portion. It is abundantly clear that a few posters are distrustful of Kio, yet we can't seem to get any answers as to why it matters.

It is being suggested that Kio had some nefarious purposes for reporting her concerns to LE, as if she were guilty of something. Many of us want to know why. I know some members here are still on the fence about KC's guilt, but what reason is given to look at Kio as the "Some Other Dude"?

Since we have a thread that is already 9 pages long, let's flesh this out a bit. What would Kio's motives be? Why in the world would KC have told such ridiculous stories that never included Kio as a suspect? Why should I consider a girl who comes off a bit scatter-brained as a more viable suspect than the child's mother who has lied continually and shown not a lick of remorse?

That is why it is so hard for many of us not to reply to this thread. The allegations against Kio seem baseless, comprised of whole-cloth speculation, unless someone can point us to these kinds of answers. We get it, a couple of you are suspicious of Kio, so please give us something to investigate. JMO

I have been reading this thread with interest, but there is one factor I am still unclear about. Could one of the posters who has doubts about Kio's testimony help me understand where that doubt leads you?

I mean, if we distrust Kio's motives for turning on her "friend" so quickly, then what do we suspect that means? Are some of you considering that Kio may be involved somehow?

Please don't take these questions in the wrong way. I am not trying to be argumentative; I'm hoping to understand the importance of this. With so much early evidence alerting all of us public nobodies that KC's story didn't wash, what is the significance of the timing or inconsistencies in Kio's interviews?

Thanks in advance; I really want to follow where others may be going with this. I'm not seeing anything myself, but I always appreciate a look from another perspective.

Rlaub44, I just read these two posts to my near perfect hubby and he's impressed too! Both are beyond excellent and well frame points I tried to make. It's also interesting to note that a over 7% of the posts you've made in the last two years were on this thread and on this subject. I guess I don't need to add that I strongly agree with the points you raised but in the interest of being redundant, did anyway.

What can we do to enjoy your wit and intellect more often? That's one of my only two complaints: Where have you been hiding and how on earth can I select any one passage to bold for emphasis??

ETA: 7% of the posts I've made in the last year would be between 165-200, depending on how much I post before you read this!

 

[countzero]

Lin, I have been following this thread with some interest. Months ago we all posted our thoughts on the SODDI thread. Thankfully, it fell into the archives because we certainly all gave it a run for the money.

Poor Kio. The immature girl in her saw an opportunity to make some $$$ and get 15 minutes of fame. Little did she or the others who had the misfortune of knowing KC and those who really knew KC in more ways than they now wanted to, are now having their lives dissected by the public. I suspect Kio had no idea the severity of her words and actions at the specific time she spoke or did them.

I really don't recall Kio being part of any SODDI theory we hashed out back then. And now, she is being raked over again and again. I just cannot find anything in her statements that would make me jump off the fence I have been sitting on since July 16, 08 and add her to my list of accomplices of KC. It just isn't there. LE isn't interested because if they were, they wouldn't have released her statement. It would still be in the "working the case" stage. There is more evidence to be released that I am more than interested in viewing and Kio isn't part of it.

Rlaub44 ...... excellent posts. Totally agree with ya.

Ya'll remember DC and the psychic. :loser: Well Kio reminds me of the same. Both gals out to help but didn't accomplish anything but to give the public something to talk about. No substance to either's story.

 

[lin]

Lin, I have been following this thread with some interest. Months ago we all posted our thoughts on the SODDI thread. Thankfully, it fell into the archives because we certainly all gave it a run for the money.

Poor Kio. The immature girl in her saw an opportunity to make some $$$ and get 15 minutes of fame. Little did she or the others who had the misfortune of knowing KC and those who really knew KC in more ways than they now wanted to, are now having their lives dissected by the public. I suspect Kio had no idea the severity of her words and actions at the specific time she spoke or did them.

I really don't recall Kio being part of any SODDI theory we hashed out back then. And now, she is being raked over again and again. I just cannot find anything in her statements that would make me jump off the fence I have been sitting on since July 16, 08 and add her to my list of accomplices of KC. It just isn't there. LE isn't interested because if they were, they wouldn't have released her statement. It would still be in the "working the case" stage. There is more evidence to be released that I am more than interested in viewing and Kio isn't part of it.

Rlaub44 ...... excellent posts. Totally agree with ya.

Yet another potd. Y'all need to slow down else the lurkers are going to start thinking a master's degree is required and a phd desired to post here!

ETA: Glad to see you posting, countzero. You've been missed around here!