GUILTY KS - Dr. George Tiller, 67, shot to death at his Wichita church, 31 May 2009

[Kimster]

Can those who posted about abortion issues repost in the PP? Here's the link:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84763"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

I'd like to review those links without being in here cuz I don't wanna get spanked! :crazy:

 

[Kimster]

Rumor has it, the murderer was from Operation Rescue - a guy named Scott Roeder. He had already spent time in prison for a 1996 arrest for possession of a bomb.

Looks like he may not get parole very soon for this crime.

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/conten...at-Wichita-Church/NoIGaXuul0C-RBrbTPnBjw.cspx

I wonder if the FBI had been watching him? I think I remember 20 years ago hearing that Dr. Tiller always wore a bullet proof vest. Was he wearing one when he was killed, or did he think things were more safe lately?

 

[curiositycat]

Another post by Suspect Scott Roeder on the chargertiller.com website:Scott Roeder
Mon September 03, 2007, 09:49:40
It seems as though what is happening in Kansas could be compared to the "lawlessness" which is spoken of in the Bible. Tiller is the concentration camp "Mengele" of our day and needs to be stopped before he and those who protect him bring judgement upon our nation.

I do know that Tiler was one of only 3 doctors left in the US that do late term abortions. The anti-abortion extremists have targeted all three of them heavily within the last few years.

The rest of what I think about this can be found in the PP where it belongs...

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I didn't mean to make you angry. George Tiller should not have been murdered. I hope Scott Roeder is brought to justice for his cowardly crime. But it is simply a fact that George Tiller was also a murderer: He caused the death of 5 year old Sarah Brown in 1998 and 19 year old Christin Gilbert in 2005.

Edit to add:This is relevant to George Tiller's murder because clearly Scott Roeder was loony but also seemingly angry that George Tiller was allowed to continue his practice after the murders he committed as well.

Was Tiller charged and convicted of any murder? I read the story of Sarah Brown and did not see that he was ever charged with her death. As a matter of fact, I cannot find anything on him committing any crimes unless I have missed something.

 

[FishingFunnyFrog]

Was Tiller charged and convicted of any murder? I read the story of Sarah Brown and did not see that he was ever charged with her death. As a matter of fact, I cannot find anything on him committing any crimes unless I have missed something.

Seriously- I don't know if he was charged or if there ever were lawsuits/settlements.

ETA: This New York Times article talks about the 30 charges brought against Tiller for illegally performing 15 late-term abortions. But Tiller ended up being acquitted after his case went through the political scandal of 3 different Attorney Generals.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Seriously- I don't know if he was charged or if there ever were lawsuits/settlements.

ETA: This New York Times article talks about the 30 charges brought against Tiller for illegally performing 15 late-term abortions. But Tiller ended up being acquitted after his case went through the political scandal of 3 different Attorney Generals.

Then there are no charges or convictions of murder on his record which means people need to refrain from calling him a murderer or refering to the "murders he committed". The man was the victim of a crime and we have to treat him as such here.

 

[raeann]

This is not an issue of whether LEGAL abortions are right or wrong. It is an issue of a human being, a father, a grandfather being brutally murdered in a church full of innocent people and MANY CHILDREN. How can such evil even be presumed to be in protection of children when this person damaged and endangered dozens of children by this horrid act of violence?

 

[luvbeaches]

Never mind. lol

 

[raeann]

Please...anyone who feels that this is any form of justice or protection for children....watch the television footage of the faces of the children walking out of that church just after this happened and then tell me about respect for THEIR lives!

 

[ziggy]

I am using the same line of reasoning that I use with all murders. What caused the guy in OR to murder his little boy and girl? What caused them to be a target??

There IS a common denominator. The choice of the individual who did the killing. The choice to load the gun and aim and shoot to kill.

Using your line of thinking, Ziggy, the murder of those children was about the ills of divorce and the destruction of the nuclear family. It distracts from the truly responsible one.

Does having to hand over 40% of your paycheck to child support justify murder? I'm talking about the line of reason and justification for murder here.

That's why I say the doctor's murder has nothing to do with abortion. It was not CAUSED by abortion. It was not CAUSED by nine judges deciding "for us" that late term abortion was OK.

It was caused by a murderer. Period. So, it's murder.

One murder is no different than any other. There's a common denominator in all murders, no matter the mitigating circumstances. We should not apply different lines of reasoning when it comes to murder. Our law in this country does not. At best, we are just flapping our lips to no avail. Expressing our opinion, FWIW. Getting distracted by our OWN personal beliefs that are not shared by the majority of this society.

That just keeps us all in the wash rinse repeat cycle. And we just quibble but nothing workable gets done.

I agree with you in part and I don't justify this murder. However, the facts of the case as presented in court would include the state of mind and belief of the accused and that would include his views on abortion. It can't be separated in that sense.

To apply a strict reasoning as you do is fine, but there are defenses that allow for taking mitigating circumstances into consideration, hence the different charges that can be made against a person who takes another's life.

 

[GeorgieFayne]

I see this murder as domestic terrorism.

Completely agree, Kat.

 

[KaylynnCouture]

More on the shooting suspect: http://www.kwch.com/Global/story.asp?S=10453228

That suspect is 51-year-old Scott Roeder from Merriam, in Northeast Kansas.

The Johnson County Sheriff's Office released his name Sunday evening, but he HAS NOT been formally charged.

Authorities pulled Roeder over three hours after the shooting. They say it appears he was driving home to Johnson County. He was not speeding or breaking any laws. Police say if it wasn't for the alert to watch out for the vehicle, they would have never noticed him.

Police say after he was pulled over, he didn't ask why.

"No, he didn't want to get away." Mike Pfannenstiel of the Johnson County Sheriff's Office said, "He was completely compliant with us. Followed all our orders."

Roeder has a criminal history. In 1996, he was sentenced to more than a year in prison for felony use of explosives and multiple license and vehicle violations. News of that conviction is posted on a website called "The Militia Watchdog". The site highlights anti-government criminal activity in the nation. Roeder's case was later appealed.

Look on Operation Rescue's anti-abortion website, and you'll find a posting by Scott Roeder. It's from two years ago and reads:

"BLESS EVERYONE FOR ATTENDING AND PRAYING IN MAY TO BRING JUSTICE TO TILLER AND THE CLOSING OF HIS DEATH CAMP. SOMETIME SOON, WOULD IT BE FEASIBLE TO ORGANIZE AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE TO ATTEND TILLERS CHURCH (INSIDE, NOT JUST OUTSIDE) TO HAVE MUCH MORE OF A PRESENCE AND POSSIBLY ASK QUESTIONS OF THE PASTOR, DEACONS, ELDERS AND MEMBERS WHILE THERE? DOESN'T SEEM LIKE IT WOULD HURT ANYTHING BUT BRING MORE ATTENTION TO TILLER."

Police were at Roeder's home in Merriam on Sunday. Neighbors say they've noticed a lot of people coming and going from the house.

They describe Roeder as a quiet, religious man.

Authorities say, when they arrested Roeder, he did not have a gun on him. Wichita police will take possession of the car and search it for any weapons.

 

[noZme]

God wants Spiritual Fruit, not Religious Nuts.


I am reminded of the lyrics from "Nunsense".... "Holier Than Thou"
http://video.filestube.com/video,b6bdda4b66c34f0f03e9.html

 

[RayStar]

I say the officers really did a great job in the capture of this alleged murderer. Controlling the traffic for public safety was a winner. He is lucky he made no sudden moves. Too bad he did not respect the doctor as a human being. He really let his hatred eat him up.

 

[dellemma]

Yikes! I used to live near where he was living. Never saw him though.

 

[AmandaBrown23]

Im not sorry this guy is not with us anymore because of what he was doing. Abortion is one thing but the whole late term abortion is just disgusting. That being said I dont think someone should have taken it into their own hands to murder the guy. So they just did the exact thing to him that they were fighting to stop.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Originally Posted by Kat
I see this murder as domestic terrorism.

Exactly! This is no different than the Jihadists who rammed the planes into the twin towers because of their radical beliefs or Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols who bombed the Murrah Federal building in OKC because of the reasons Tim perceived as justification of the act.

This was a premeditated murder and the man's obsession with his radical beliefs was the motive. Killing in the name of God is the most heinous of all hate crimes, imo. The man is no Christian. He is a cold blooded murderer and not a martyr for his cause. If his intent was saving children, name one child who would say they wanted someone to die so they could live. The logic isn't there. It is only the depravity in the minds of those who could justify murder as a viable option. A warped sense of entitlement, rights, and beliefs. May he rot in hell along with Tim M. and the virgin seeking scum who have killed so many because of their twisted beliefs.

 

[FishingFunnyFrog]

Exactly! This is no different than the Jihadists who rammed the planes into the twin towers because of their radical beliefs or Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols who bombed the Murrah Federal building in OKC because of the reasons Tim perceived as justification of the act.

This was a premeditated murder and the man's obsession with his radical beliefs was the motive. Killing in the name of God is the most heinous of all hate crimes, imo. The man is no Christian. He is a cold blooded murderer and not a martyr for his cause. If his intent was saving children, name one child who would say they wanted someone to die so they could live. The logic isn't there. It is only the depravity in the minds of those who could justify murder as a viable option. A warped sense of entitlement, rights, and beliefs. May he rot in hell along with Tim M. and the virgin seeking scum who have killed so many because of their twisted beliefs.

Seriously- Just hoping you'll clarify the bold (by me). Are you referring to being pro-life as his "radical beliefs"?

 

[faefrost]

Vigilante justice...when the courts fail, citizens will take justice into their own hands. It's sad it ended this way, but at least we won't have precious viable babies dying by Tiller's hand anymore. Just like in Nazi Germany- Nazi lives had to be taken to end the genocide of a people group.

And welcome to the philosophy and take on religion that drives and justifies the Taliban and Al Queada.

I find what Tiller did for a living reprehensible. But it was something that needed to be examined and dealt with legislatively and judicially. Not through an act of terrorism.

 

[FishingFunnyFrog]

And welcome to the philosophy and take on religion that drives and justifies the Taliban and Al Queada.

I find what Tiller did for a living reprehensible. But it was something that needed to be examined and dealt with legislatively and judicially. Not through an act of terrorism.

I agree with you fae! And it gives the legislators and courts a great responsibility. They dropped the ball on Tiller's case by playing stupid political games in Kansas. Because they gave Tiller a nonsense trial a lunatic took matters into his own hands. People were so upset by that absurd trial...something crazy was bound to happen.