KS - Patricia Kimmi, 58, Horton, 6 Nov 2009 - #2

[Mima]

Sorry, I probably shouldn't have mentioned the teen party. I had heard that and I don't even know/remember who told me that.

Whoever was telling me that said that was how they knew about the red/dark truck. Someone at the party had seen it. Obviously it isn't true or you (Rita) would have heard about it.

I hate it when false stuff goes around and I did mention before that these were rumors I'm hearing and by no means fact.

 

[eyestowardHeaven]

Sorry, I probably shouldn't have mentioned the teen party. I had heard that and I don't even know/remember who told me that.

Whoever was telling me that said that was how they knew about the red/dark truck. Someone at the party had seen it. Obviously it isn't true or you (Rita) would have heard about it.

I hate it when false stuff goes around and I did mention before that these were rumors I'm hearing and by no means fact.

Oh, please don't feel bad about it -I'm glad to tell you what I can and say whether it's a rumor or not. Sometimes, though, we aren't for sure if it is a rumor or something that we haven't been told. But I'll try to post what I can, per LE. They're really good about letting us know the rumors they've heard or leads they've checked out that ended up being just rumors, so that we know there's not anything to it.

There are some WILD rumors out there and it makes you wonder if people sit at home w/ nothing better to do than make stuff up - aren't the facts of the case already bad enough?

Again, don't feel bad about posting what you've heard. If I can, I'll let you know whether it's rumor or not.

 

[eyestowardHeaven]

Hi....just thinking of you all...

some ideas>>

>>> the hat and the money clip don't look like "teen" items to me...look like an older guy would have them?

>>> I wonder....could some handyman have approached your mom? she seems like a kind person

I had a "flashback" to a situation we had in my neighborhood...an older couple and their 30 something son moved in, renting a house ....he had some speech and walking dificulties...said he was a wounded vet (we later found out he was in a one car drunken driving accident where he hurt himself)

the guy bought a little pressure cleaner and wanted to do odd jobs...some neighbors (me too) hired him for small things...but he didn't do a good job really...also was drinking...
and we didn't want to use him again

he had fights with his parents...cops called....some one who became friends with the mom learned he had mental problems, on ssi, not a vet, drug and booze and mental..

so he would come around and...sort of "demand" to do a (half azzed) job for people...
or sometimes just "borrow" money...very scary

some of the neighbors contacted the owner of the home/the rental agency and thank god their lease was NOT renewed and decent people moved in

I am just thinking of this cause ...I can imagine Pat giving a guy a chance....and then someone sort of demanding to get more work...more money?
Maybe not a "regular" or someone you all know...some new guy, a drifter?
Maybe someone who felt "entitled"? wouldn't take no for an answer??

Or.... a new "admirer" who wanted to foist himself on her?? Maybe thought that he was irresistable?

Some how I feel that there is some element of "jealousy" or envy or greed here....Pat seems to have built a nice life for herself finally and someone didn't like that, thought they deserved something, or??


and of course...that could lead back to her ex husband too?? Chilling to hear that her own daughter can objectively consider him

I don't think that anyone "gained" from this did they? No money, jewelry missing...
I see it more as a "spoiler" or a sense of entitlement

I think back to the time that the "neighbor's son" came to my door sort of demanding that I "lend" him money for a 6 pack ...yick

(these are just some random thoughts I am having on this...I hope and pray for a happy ending here..or at least for some closure and ending of this horrible uncertainty)

No unstable handymen, or admirers. We said no to LE to all of these scenarios in the beginning, but for the sake of checking to see if we were wrong, we have questioned all of her friends. She is not a person who had secrets. She really did tell us everything. If she had someone that we didn't know working at her house, she would have told me every detail about it, because I think she was kind of lonely by herself. Even though she still lived so close to us and we saw each other all the time, she still was living by herself for the first time in 26 yrs. She liked to chat

The last basketball game she went to with me (my daughter's), from the time I got in her Jeep, she didn't stop talking 'til we got to the game - I didn't have to say a word! And I'm positive if there was someone who made her upset, mad, scared or whatever, she definitely would have said something.

It is pretty sad that our "dad" was the first person to come to mind, in that very first hour on the day we found her missing. But that is because there are NO other obvious suspects. She doesn't lead the kind of life that would her in any danger. I've moved "dad" down my list, I know he didn't pysically do this her, I don't think he hired someone, I DO feel he put a bad idea into the wrong person's head. I really, really hope that I'm completely wrong on even that angle, because I don't know how I'll live with the fact that I worried all my life about her being safe from him, and in the short year I let my guard down, he brought this upon her in some way. Well, bottom line, he did bring this upon her. If he'd never cheated, if he could have been true to her in just one simple way in their marriage, regardless of the hateful, mean, disrespectful way he had treated her all those years, she would never have been out there alone in the first place. She never would have divorced him. He wouldn't deserve it, but they'd still be together, and we'd know where she was at right now. We'd know she was safe. She wouldn't have gone thru whatever she went thru down there on that road a month ago. We'd still have our Mom.

 

[dreamweaver]

What did Patricia K do on Nov. 6, 2009?
Is there a timeline put together by police?

She did go shopping.
Was she out all day?
Did she go to a nearby town?
Did she have business to take care of?
Or was it a quick trip to Horton and
a bite to eat and then home?
Have people stepped forward and said they saw her
or talked to her on Fri. Nov.6?

Did she pick up groceries or stop for gas?
Did she rent a movie?
Did she stop and visit with a good friend?

Just wondering. Hoping a timeline might help.

 

[dreamweaver]

No unstable handymen, or admirers. We said no to LE to all of these scenarios in the beginning, but for the sake of checking to see if we were wrong, we have questioned all of her friends. She is not a person who had secrets. She really did tell us everything. If she had someone that we didn't know working at her house, she would have told me every detail about it, because I think she was kind of lonely by herself. Even though she still lived so close to us and we saw each other all the time, she still was living by herself for the first time in 26 yrs. She liked to chat

The last basketball game she went to with me (my daughter's), from the time I got in her Jeep, she didn't stop talking 'til we got to the game - I didn't have to say a word! And I'm positive if there was someone who made her upset, mad, scared or whatever, she definitely would have said something.

It is pretty sad that our "dad" was the first person to come to mind, in that very first hour on the day we found her missing. But that is because there are NO other obvious suspects. She doesn't lead the kind of life that would her in any danger. I've moved "dad" down my list, I know he didn't pysically do this her, I don't think he hired someone, I DO feel he put a bad idea into the wrong person's head. I really, really hope that I'm completely wrong on even that angle, because I don't know how I'll live with the fact that I worried all my life about her being safe from him, and in the short year I let my guard down, he brought this upon her in some way. Well, bottom line, he did bring this upon her. If he'd never cheated, if he could have been true to her in just one simple way in their marriage, regardless of the hateful, mean, disrespectful way he had treated her all those years, she would never have been out there alone in the first place. She never would have divorced him. He wouldn't deserve it, but they'd still be together, and we'd know where she was at right now. We'd know she was safe. She wouldn't have gone thru whatever she went thru down there on that road a month ago. We'd still have our Mom.

===

I just have to say that I am glad that all of you had such a close relationship with your mom.
ot: Having said that,
I was very close with my mom. We talked every day and sometimes more often. We lived a mile apart. I was out there for Sunday dinners.
I still stopped in on my way to work to have a little toast and gravy with mom and dad.
After mom died, I would have sworn she had no secrets from me, my sister, brother or my dad.
But she did. And I am very close with my two daughters and son. I live next door to one of the girls.
We all talk all the time.

If I disappeared, they would say that I have no secrets.

But I do.
Not big secrets, not how I felt about something or someone,
but the small stuff.
like...if I ate breakfast out, 6:00am, alone, just me and my book, four of us there and the waitress said oh my gosh, I met the people who own your parents house now and they said they completely tore up the creek for this big garden project.
Now, I would comment on that.
Would I tell my daughters? Yes, when I saw them.
But I wouldn't come home and call them up.

To me, it is something your mom heard or saw or commented on while she was out that Friday.

 

[eyestowardHeaven]

What did Patricia K do on Nov. 6, 2009?
Is there a timeline put together by police?

She did go shopping.
Was she out all day?
Did she go to a nearby town?
Did she have business to take care of?
Or was it a quick trip to Horton and
a bite to eat and then home?
Have people stepped forward and said they saw her
or talked to her on Fri. Nov.6?

Did she pick up groceries or stop for gas?
Did she rent a movie?
Did she stop and visit with a good friend?

Just wondering. Hoping a timeline might help.

She was at work (cleaning job) I'm guessing approx. 9:00 am to 1:00 - 1:30 pm. That was a normal Friday schedule for her, but I haven't checked personally w/ the people she cleaned for. She called me that morning either on her way to work or while she was at work and left a message, which I listened to that afternoon and erased, so I don't know the exact time and I can't even remember what she said exactly, I think something along the lines of just checking in (she always said that - "just checking in") and asking about weekend plans. She called me again after she left the cleaning job to say that she was going to a late lunch w/ friends and would not be stopping by my house as she had planned, asked again about weekend plans.

She went directly from the cleaning job to the friend's house who she went to eat w/ - another friend met there also. They went to a restaurant in Holton to eat, shopped at a store there also and got back to the friend's house around 5:00 pm.

She left there around 5:30 pm and is on the video going by a local convenience store at 5:40 pm on the way to her house. No one saw her or heard from her after that to my knowledge, unless there are emails or online posts. Some of her online friends have contacted us though, and they couldn't find any posts from her after Wednesday of that week.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Rita, in the pictures posted yesterday by the Topeka paper I noticed the one with the computer.

Has LE checked the computer? Maybe for contacts and so on?

 

[Nevermorejoyous]

Could she possibly have been followed home by some at the cleaning job? Did she work alone that day? You NEED to seek out her clients for that day, I think. This makes more sense to me than anything else. (Other than the "obvious" suspect.)
Much love to you and your family. I cried my eyes out when I decorated the bronze horse today with her ribbon. I feel worse every day, and so helpless tro be so far away...it's SO frustrating. *Heavy Sigh*

 

[dreamweaver]

She was at work (cleaning job) I'm guessing approx. 9:00 am to 1:00 - 1:30 pm. That was a normal Friday schedule for her, but I haven't checked personally w/ the people she cleaned for. She called me that morning either on her way to work or while she was at work and left a message, which I listened to that afternoon and erased, so I don't know the exact time and I can't even remember what she said exactly, I think something along the lines of just checking in (she always said that - "just checking in") and asking about weekend plans. She called me again after she left the cleaning job to say that she was going to a late lunch w/ friends and would not be stopping by my house as she had planned, asked again about weekend plans.

She went directly from the cleaning job to the friend's house who she went to eat w/ - another friend met there also. They went to a restaurant in Holton to eat, shopped at a store there also and got back to the friend's house around 5:00 pm.

She left there around 5:30 pm and is on the video going by a local convenience store at 5:40 pm on the way to her house. No one saw her or heard from her after that to my knowledge, unless there are emails or online posts. Some of her online friends have contacted us though, and they couldn't find any posts from her after Wednesday of that week.

--
Thank you for answering so quickly.
Did she pick up her friends to go out to the meal?
Or did they travel in the friends car?
Have you talked with her friends? I would guess so.
Do they remember much of the conversation that afternoon?

At her cleaning job, were the people at home or was she working
in an empty house?

Prayers for all of you.

 

[harleysmom]

I too think it is probably "in our own sandbox"
Rita, who did your mom buy her hay or straw or grain from for Skittles? Have the "locals" with big red 4 pickups been checked? I have a weird, creepy feeling that just hit me today and I hope I am not right.

 

[raeann]

Maybe we should try putting a list together of who we might open the door for, even if we were very cautious about such things....my first thoughts are:

Police officer
UPS/Fedex/Mail delivery person
Floral delivery ( do they even deliver out that far from town?)
Neighbor that is recognized
Boy scout/girl scout/school age child with sales brochure (ok I'll be honest...sometimes I still don't answer for them)
Propane delivery?

Ok....someone else's turn now

 

[wfgodot]

Maybe we should try putting a list together of who we might open the door for, even if we were very cautious about such things....my first thoughts are:

Police officer
UPS/Fedex/Mail delivery person
Floral delivery ( do they even deliver out that far from town?)
Neighbor that is recognized
Boy scout/girl scout/school age child with sales brochure (ok I'll be honest...sometimes I still don't answer for them)
Propane delivery?

Ok....someone else's turn now

woman who says she's had car trouble nearby
person representing self to be from rural water district
person representing self to be from rural electric cooperative

 

[MeoW333]

woman who says she's had car trouble nearby
person representing self to be from rural water district
person representing self to be from rural electric cooperative

Meter readers
Jehovas witnesses (religious salespeople)

to add to the list..

What strikes me as odd is that most salespeople and meter readers, even some delivery people don't come around later than 5pm or maybe 6pm, especially the times of year that it gets dark early. It's most likely for safety reasons.
Some of the people that would go to a door after dark anyway are:

Fast food or food delivery people
pizzaman, chinese food, etc.

What if someone came to the door with a pizza in their hand acting like she called in the order when Pat didn't?

Rita, would your mom open the door for someone acting as a pizza delivery guy to tell him he may have the "wrong address"?

 

[eyestowardHeaven]

I too think it is probably "in our own sandbox"
Rita, who did your mom buy her hay or straw or grain from for Skittles? Have the "locals" with big red 4 pickups been checked? I have a weird, creepy feeling that just hit me today and I hope I am not right.

She's got some from family members, some from a guy who I don't know, although he'd never delivered to her new house before, and a close friend of our family. Can you pm me w/ your thoughts?

 

[eyestowardHeaven]

Maybe we should try putting a list together of who we might open the door for, even if we were very cautious about such things....my first thoughts are:

Police officer
UPS/Fedex/Mail delivery person
Floral delivery ( do they even deliver out that far from town?)
Neighbor that is recognized
Boy scout/girl scout/school age child with sales brochure (ok I'll be honest...sometimes I still don't answer for them)
Propane delivery?

Ok....someone else's turn now

What we thought of:

*person impersonating law enforcement
*woman who walks up saying she's injured from a car accident
*fedex, ups, schwan salesman - but those don't fit because she'd open the door recognizing the vehicle, not to someone w/ that uniform and a strange vehicle

There is no delivery service for food out here, we personally know the florist and they only deliver during business hours. Propane delivery is only during bus. hrs. She would open the door to neighbors, but we know them.

 

[dsntslp]

I would think that if the perp went to the door with a pizza box in hand the pizza box would be would be on the ground or floor somewhere. The perp could not control Pat in the vehicle and she managed to get out (this also says to me just one perp) so how would the perp control Pat and the pizza box to get them both in the vehicle? I don't think she would open the door for pizza delivery if the delivery person did not have a pizza with them, would she? Just my thoughts...

 

[eyestowardHeaven]

--
Thank you for answering so quickly.
Did she pick up her friends to go out to the meal?
Or did they travel in the friends car?
Have you talked with her friends? I would guess so.
Do they remember much of the conversation that afternoon?

At her cleaning job, were the people at home or was she working
in an empty house?

Prayers for all of you.

She picked up her friends - she drove. I have talked to her friends, they're all very close. I do know what the general conversation was about.

I believe the people are not there when she cleans, but this is just one family she cleans for, we know them very well.

As always, thank you for the prayers - I can't say that enough.

 

[eyestowardHeaven]

I would think that if the perp went to the door with a pizza box in hand the pizza box would be would be on the ground or floor somewhere. The perp could not control Pat in the vehicle and she managed to get out (this also says to me just one perp) so how would the perp control Pat and the pizza box to get them both in the vehicle? I don't think she would open the door for pizza delivery if the delivery person did not have a pizza with them, would she? Just my thoughts...

No pizza delivery here. It's such a small community. Each business that is mentioned, we know them really well. In a small town like this, there isn't hardly anyone you DON'T know.

 

[perhaps]

Maybe we should try putting a list together of who we might open the door for, even if we were very cautious about such things....my first thoughts are:

Police officer
UPS/Fedex/Mail delivery person
Floral delivery ( do they even deliver out that far from town?)
Neighbor that is recognized
Boy scout/girl scout/school age child with sales brochure (ok I'll be honest...sometimes I still don't answer for them)
Propane delivery?

Ok....someone else's turn now

Someone from her Church?

 

[MeoW333]

This is such a hard case, even if we guess who she may have opened the door to, it will help us know what maybe they were dressed as or know what type of person she may have opened it for.
Yet the crime scenes tell us something.
There was nothing missing, no robbery, Robbery wasn't the motive.
It seems if it was a random attack, they would have attacked her and did whatever in her home and then left her there.
IMO, this wasn't random. Someone took her with the intention of bringing her somewhere. Otherwise they would have harmed her in her home if it was random.
It's almost as if whoever took her wanted to bring her to someone else
or
bring her to their own "turf" so that they would have even more "control" over her, they'd have the upper hand so to speak on their own property where they known who comes and goes, and Pat wouldn't have the security of being in her own house and knowing where everything is. In a strange environment to the victim, the abductor has more of an "advantage" in his own familiar surroundings, than that of the victim.

I guess the question remains that, who took her? Was the abductor taking her to someone else (i.e. hired for dirty work, or took the "duty" upon themselves)
or
Is the abductor one and the same and did the deed himself without having hired anyone else?

How long was he following her that day? Even if she did stop at a gas station, he could have stopped across the street out of the view of the gas station cameras..

Rita, my prayers for you and your family during this nightmare..