GUILTY KS - Ramon Martinez-Limon, 32, killed in hit & run, Wichita, 10 June 2011

[kgeaux]

How do we figure in all the many many more people who hit and don't run? They're not "in shock"?

What kind of person who does a hit and run is a "bad person," and what kind isn't? I'm not saying that hitting a person makes you a bad person--I'm saying that running off afterward makes you a bad person.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but hit-and-run is right up there on my Bad Behaviors list.

This doctor wasn't under a compulsion to take off. Anyone in this situation could help himself. What possible circumstances ? What acts--incl. being drunk or driving while exhausted--could diminish the responsibility of someone in this situation? Nothing mitigates running off after hitting someone.

You are absolutely correct that nothing mitigates running off after hitting someone.

I really, really feel that this doctor had no idea he hit a person, or even an animal. It was broad daylight, the body was on the roof of the vehicle, and the driver is a highly educated man with NOTHING to gain and everything to lose by leaving the scene of an accident that caused death.

He ran up over the curb at a road construction site, and it makes sense to me (LOL, like that means anything!) that he may have thought he hit a construction barrier and that the only damage was to the vehicle. It is possible he fell asleep at the wheel, woke up to the sounds of an impact, and perhaps the sight of a piece of barrier flying in the air......

I could be wrong; it would not be the first time. But he had so much to lose, a lifetime of good works and a career, freedom! And nothing to gain by knowingly leaving the scene with a body on top of his car, in daylight hours during morning traffic.......I just don't see this man as being that dumb.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

You are absolutely correct that nothing mitigates running off after hitting someone.

I really, really feel that this doctor had no idea he hit a person, or even an animal. It was broad daylight, the body was on the roof of the vehicle, and the driver is a highly educated man with NOTHING to gain and everything to lose by leaving the scene of an accident that caused death.

He ran up over the curb at a road construction site, and it makes sense to me (LOL, like that means anything!) that he may have thought he hit a construction barrier and that the only damage was to the vehicle. It is possible he fell asleep at the wheel, woke up to the sounds of an impact, and perhaps the sight of a piece of barrier flying in the air......

I could be wrong; it would not be the first time. But he had so much to lose, a lifetime of good works and a career, freedom! And nothing to gain by knowingly leaving the scene with a body on top of his car, in daylight hours during morning traffic.......I just don't see this man as being that dumb.

I think this post makes perfect sense.

 

[tapu]

The first thing I thought of when reading this was shock.

I don't know why. But it's what I thought of first.

Maybe it's because the body was still on the top of the van as he drove 3 miles. Surely he wasn't trying to HIDE it. If that was the case, he would have stopped and got the body off of the van. A body on top of a damaged van is very noticeable.

JMO

ETA: I'm interested to know what the daughter was doing as he hit/drove home. She's in her 20's. Wonder what she said about it???

I would say he had no idea where the body was when he tried to get away.

 

[tapu]

kgeaux (and others)--

At that moment, I suggest he felt he could get away. He thought staying, he had so much to lose. He knew he was driving recklessly, hit a man who was on a curb, and took off not knowing he had the body, hoping that he wouldn't "lose."

People hit-and-run thinking that they won't lose whatever they're afraid of losing.

 

[tapu]

I would imagine his daughter was as shocked and frightened as the driver. I would be.

If she tried to dissuade him, he probably put the end to that. Just my guess. He would have been in a highly ramped-up state so that she couldn't affect him too much, maybe. Also, we don't know anything about this family culturally, but if it's a male-dominant culture, as most are, then she has less ground for action.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I just need to see more details before I am willing to pass judgement.
We don't KNOW what happened.

JMO

 

[tapu]

I am going to try to think of at least one thing I could find out about this situation that would mitigate culpability.

If you already know of one, that would be great. But I am going to try to think of one, too.

 

[tapu]

1. You did already offer the first possible factor, and I've considered it: he thought he hit a barrier. Okay, then he somehow missed seeing body hit windshield; daughter missed it too. Both thought no problem--no need to stop--but then he did turn around and go back home for whatever reason. Then, he disappeared until found by LE.

2. Psychotic break. I'm not sure there is such a thing officially, but say he had a schizophrenic episode or whatever, just before he went over the curb. And so he did not perceive the situation in a normal way, causing him not to interpret it as having just crashed into a person. This is more plausible, I guess. If that could be determined, I could kind of see it.... But it does seem odd that he would have the wherewithall to turn around and drive home. And wouldn't his daughter have intervened at some point?

3. Someone was after him, and his daughter, so that he was fleeing, and then even though he killed a guy, he was focused on making sure the two of them didn't also get killed. In that sense, a hit-and-run would be like self-defense. I might be able to accept this and consider it a mitigating circumstance, but it doesn't seem the most likely scenario to me.

 

[Lizbetbathory]

Perhaps there was an illness and after the man was hit the daughter took over driving? ( IE dad passes out has seizure etc, hit the man speeds off then the daughter manages to stop the car and take oer driving )

Though I would figure she would get out and see the guy though maybe the dad was slumped over and she pulled him out of the seat and started driving

 

[wfgodot]

five days later....

Lawn service worker who was hit, killed by van is identified (Wichita Eagle)

---
The victim is Ramon Martinez-Limon, 31, of Mexico, police Lt. Joe Schroeder said. Police had initially said the victim was 32.

Investigators had to check with multiple agencies, including some in Mexico, to confirm the man's name, Schroeder said.

Martinez-Limon has a brother and cousin in the area, Schroeder said.
---
Asked if Martinez-Limon was legally in the United States, Schroeder said he couldn't say, adding that it was a federal matter and wasn't relevant to the police investigation of the death.

more at Wichita Eagle link above

Rest in peace, Ramon.

 

[kgeaux]

I would imagine his daughter was as shocked and frightened as the driver. I would be.

If she tried to dissuade him, he probably put the end to that. Just my guess. He would have been in a highly ramped-up state so that she couldn't affect him too much, maybe. Also, we don't know anything about this family culturally, but if it's a male-dominant culture, as most are, then she has less ground for action.

I think the daughter had just been dropped off at school and the dr was returning home. Initial reports had her listed as twelve years old, while later articles corrected to say she was 22.

Just today I was reminded of a young man who suffered a stroke while driving. He continued to drive for a while, but was terribly confused and driving erratically. I know I sound like I am digging for any possible way to avoid thinking this doctor knowingly fled the scene of an accident, but it is so hard for me to wrap my mind around the idea that he deliberately fled the scene!

I suppose we will hear more about this----and I will tip my hat to you if you' e called it!

 

[mysteriew]

How fast would you have to be driving to hit a body, have it bounce up into the windshield, and continue bouncing up hard enough to make the body bounce up onto the roof?

 

[tapu]

kgeaux, you are one of my favorite posters so don't think I'm after you about differences btwn us or anything general. I just really want to know this: if this were not a doctor that people praise as nice and responsible, would you be "digging for any possible way" not to believe it?

I think of you as someone who does think through evidence before forming an opinion, but this seems like more than that? Of course, you don't have to explain it to me! I just wonder what you think it is: gnrl attitudes twrd hit-and-run type stuff; or is this one different somehow?

 

[tapu]

How fast would you have to be driving to hit a body, have it bounce up into the windshield, and continue bouncing up hard enough to make the body bounce up onto the roof?

I know deer and other stuff like that, when you hit them, tend in general to pop up on the hood. Of course, most deer are hit by vehicles going pretty fast.

It seems to me that people hit on regularly trafficked streets do not pop up. I'm only speaking from news descriptions and photos of "regular" accidents.

I don't think most people could help but put their foot on the brakes at impact and/or when the body hit the w/s. But, popping him further up onto the roof makes it seem like forward impetus was maintained because if the brakes had been hit the body would have reversed direction, not continued in its trajectory.

I lean toward the driver absolutely barreling down the road and going so fast that hitting the brakes, while instinctive, could not physically be done fast enough to change the direction of the body. That's fast.

 

[MorenoI]

JMO

I think this dr. knew he hit "someone or something". I know that many times I've ran over a curb and I always stop to check the damage before continuing to drive along my way. He is a doctor he could have stopped and check on this man but he choose to ignore. So what happened when he got home? Did he just get out of the van and go inside? Did he not see anything? C'mon he must have saw the damage!!!

I hate to see those disgusting comments on the bottom of the article, who cares if he was illegal or not, he is a human beings and deserves to be respected!

JMO

 

[kgeaux]

kgeaux, you are one of my favorite posters so don't think I'm after you about differences btwn us or anything general. I just really want to know this: if this were not a doctor that people praise as nice and responsible, would you be "digging for any possible way" not to believe it?

I think of you as someone who does think through evidence before forming an opinion, but this seems like more than that? Of course, you don't have to explain it to me! I just wonder what you think it is: gnrl attitudes twrd hit-and-run type stuff; or is this one different somehow?

I enjoy your posts, too!

Honestly, the fact that the driver is a doctor figures very highly into my opinion that he (possibly!) did not know he'd struck and killed a person. I read a lot of posts on one news site made by people who know him personally, and no one had anything negative to say about him, personally or professionally.

I also factored in that the "child" he'd dropped off at school was first identified as a 12 year old boy, and then was identified as a 22 year old daughter.......my thought process was that if that info came from the driver, then he must have been very, very confused. Also, although the accident happened in the morning rush hour, he wasn't arrested until that evening.....kinda made me think the police weren't too sure!

If the driver had a criminal record, a history of OWI's, drug use or irresponsible behavior, I'd be much more inclined to believe he knew he had hit someone and just drove away as fast as he could, without realizing he had the body up on the roof.

Having re-read the articles, I am beginning to reconsider my opinion. I had not initially noticed that the doctor entered his driveway "at a high speed." That little phrase has set my brain cells knocking around!

In general: I pretty much am very, very hard on drivers who cause injury to others.......my BIL was run over by a drunk driver years ago, and the drunk was SO drunk that he didn't even know he'd hit a person. (BIL was a pedestrian aiding another driver at the scene of an accident, and the drunk ran into the already disabled vehicle.) The drunk's car was left running, parked right on top of BIL, causing horrible horrible injuries. In fact, BIL was pronounced dead at certain points, although he did ultimately survive. This happened almost 30 years ago, and BIL has suffered every single day since then. So I tend to really lean heavily in the direction that drivers who cause injury/death to others are responsible for their actions.

My brother was recently hit by a truck while he was riding a bicycle to work. He suffered a brain injury and almost lost his lower leg.....like BIL, the driver stopped and didn't try to escape; I mention this just to point out how negatively I tend to think about irresponsible drivers.

My reaction to this incident has surprised me, too!

 

[tapu]

WOW! Those are terrible stories!

It's funny but I am LESS likely to go soft on this doctor, assuming it happened as reported. And even then, the report would have to be WAY WAY off what it's saying now.

I think it is possible for a person to seem very nice and responsible and blah, blah, right up until a test of that comes up and they show their underlying values. To me, this doctor weighed his successful lifestyle over the very life of another human being. I don't care how cool a guy he was prior to that.

 

[OkieGranny]

From April 2012:

http://www.kake.com/findit/wednesda...ontest_Plea_In_Deadly_Hit__Run_148899355.html

On Friday, Sarrafizadeh pleaded no contest to a misdemeanor charge of vehicular homicide. The district attorney's office dropped a second felony charge of leaving the scene of an accident...

Sarrafizadeh was ordered to serve a year of "no appearance" probation, which means he will not have to report to a probation officer during his term. He simply must remain in good standing with the law. The requirement also states that the former VA Medical Center radiologist cannot apply for a drivers license anywhere in the U. S. for the next year.

 

[LadyJustia]

Okay, sorry to open an old thread, but a friend and I were discussing this just today, as a hit and run occurred in California today, in which the driver kept driving with the body still on her vehicle. Very sad story, as is this one.

Anyway, I noticed when looking back on this thread, that the outcome of this case was never shared on WS. I lived in Wichita for years, am very familiar with this part of town, and have many friends and family members in the medical community in Wichita. This case has been very bizarre and bewildering since it happened, but a clear explanation as to the oddity of the events was presented when Dr. Sarrafi pleaded to lesser charges. The man in short, suffered a stroke while driving his severely disabled 22 year old daughter to her school/caregiver. While driving, the Dr., who has been a pillar of the community, a medical student mentor, and a valued staff doctor at the VA hospital for years, the Dr suffered a stroke. This explains why he did not recall most of the events and continued driving after hitting the landscaper, Mr. Limon. I will provide several links regarding the outcome of the case and further info on the doctor's medical deterioration. Not to fault, Mr. Limon, who was simply doing his job, but his employers need to re-think the areas and times of day that they have these workers edging weeds on the curbs of very busy streets. The area where Mr. Limon was struck and killed is near to a huge airplane manufacturing plant that is flooded with traffic this time of morning, on an already very busy street. I have noticed how close some of them come to being struck on a daily basis in the spring and summer. Most of the workers have on headphones as well, unable to hear cars honking at them, who may be unable to stop in bumper to bumper fast moving traffic. Anyway, this entire story was sad. Sad for Mr. Limon and his family, sad for Dr. Sarrafi, and certainly a black mark and further investigation needed into the employer's safety regulations/procedures.

Links to news stories:
http://www.wibw.com/home/headlines/...e_Before_Hitting__Killing_Man__132489338.html

http://www.kansas.com/news/article1077596.html

Link to route the Dr. took that morning: https://goo.gl/maps/co8kwobfgBv