KY KY - Kathy, 48, & Samantha Netherland, 16, Botland, 21 Apr 2014

[SleuthMc]

http://www.wdrb.com/story/26469962/bardstown-double-murder-case-remains-unsolved

still remains unsolved. agree that seems like daughter was the target. killed in separate rooms there would most definitely be two killers I think.

Did I read somewhere that the daughter was the babysitter for officer Ellis?

 

[Muy Curioso]

Did I read somewhere that the daughter was the babysitter for officer Ellis?

Not here. This is the kind of rumors that emerge when no information is provided.

 

[Muy Curioso]

We not know the possible relationship between Ellis and Netherland families. Amy Ellis is a substitute teacher, and Kathy Netherland was a teacher. It is possible that Kathy was the teacher of one of the sons of Ellis. Bardstown is a small place, and many people know many people.

 

[Muy Curioso]

“Police said two females died of unnatural causes and trauma was involved”

This is a sample of what Police reported the first days.

They hid the names of the victims, their relationship, and even that they had been murdered.

I hope that one of the many who back the secrecy of the police come here and explain us the advantages for the investigaton to hide that the two women were killed, their names and their relationship.

There is no one single advantage. It is the secret by the secret. And then they want no rumors and suspicions. The strange thing is that we have not the double of rumors.

It seems that for certain detectives and police is a nuisance that journalists and citizens want to be informed. In their ideal world, they would investigate unmolested, without report back, and without their investigative strategy into question. For months or years, or forever.

But citizens want to know, and for many reasons. An important one is that they want to make their own decisions in matters of personal and family security, and this can not be done if information is not received.

Detectives must always hide some data, but it is a big mistake to hide all important facts after a few days. The only exception is when there is a big suspect. But when there is not a strong suspect, it is just the right thing to make public all the information possible.

In this case, the killer could have told loudly in the middle of a restaurant how he committed the crime, and nobody would have known. None would be aware, even today, of what they heard.

Well, they have opted for secrecy, and it looks they are going to continue on that path. But at some point the detectives will be held accountable for its investigative strategy. It has been over a year. Perhaps they will wait 10 years to publicize details of the case, when no one will remember anything.

Nobody will prevent rumors, that's impossible, especially in the Internet age. But if enough information is provided, they can control and constrain those rumors. If they opt for the absurd secrecy, rumors and suspicions will grow out of control.

And at the end, all this secrecy are going to explode in your face.

 

[bflocket]

I don't see the Netherland murders being related to Officer Ellis or whatever happened to Crystal Rogers.

Actually, I could see the Rogers/Ellis cases being tied much more. He was with the Sheriff's Dept (I think - he was a Nelson Co police officer of some sort) and Crystal's ex ran for sheriff a few years ago.

And our county schools are divided between "county" and "city" (Bardstown). So teachers in the county system (there are now two High Schools in it, along with all of the non-Bardstown lower schools) don't generally have much contact with "Bardstown" teachers. Or teachers from the parochial schools, for that matter. At least in the work environment.

 

[Keefer]

Bards town has a population of a little over 11,000. Three unsolved murders in 2 yrs and now the disappearance of Chyrstal Rodgers.
None of these crimes appear to be random.
What are the odds that all four of these people were targeted in this small town in the space of 2 yrs ?
Is the maroon Impala the correct year le is looking for in the Slayings of mom and daughter? If so, it's either one hell of a coincidence or something very evil is afoot.

 

[Keefer]

I don't see the Netherland murders being related to Officer Ellis or whatever happened to Crystal Rogers.

Actually, I could see the Rogers/Ellis cases being tied much more. He was with the Sheriff's Dept (I think - he was a Nelson Co police officer of some sort) and Crystal's ex ran for sheriff a few years ago.

And our county schools are divided between "county" and "city" (Bardstown). So teachers in the county system (there are now two High Schools in it, along with all of the non-Bardstown lower schools) don't generally have much contact with "Bardstown" teachers. Or teachers from the parochial schools, for that matter. At least in the work environment.

But substitute teachers tend to work where ever. It is not unusual for them to drive 45 min to an hour for a job. In a small place like this I wouldn't doubt the hi probability that they crossed paths.

 

[Muy Curioso]

Speaking of teachers I just wanted to mean that in a small place we could find many contact zones. So we have to be very cautious when looking relationships among the victims. I'm sure we just have to search to find them. But that happens for all who live or work in Bardstown.

Samantha Netherland and Ellis children were attending schools that are within a few yards. Kathy teacherd right there. Jason Ellis often passed by. It is likely that known each other, even if in view. But so it would serve to half of the inhabitants of Bardstown.

At this point I do not think any of the three crimes are related, but I have doubts in the Ellis-Netherland cases. I think the Rogers case is totally different.

 

[Muy Curioso]

In some scenarios the person who committed the crime could be other than who planned it. These are, in my opinion, the possible relationships of the killer (or who planned the crime) and the victims, and the possible motives.

Relationship

1) An immediate family member or a close friend, someone from the closest circle of the victims.

2) A distant relative, superficial friends, colleagues, classmates or neighbors.

3) A very light and indirect relationship. A former student or relative of one of them. A store clerk who discussed with one of the victims. A traffic incident. A former neighbor.

4) No previous direct relationship between the killer and the victims.

Motive

1) Theft. The murder was the result of a robbery that gone wrong.

2) Economic interest. The murder was seeking to make a profit.

3) Hate. Someone hated one of the victims so much that ended in murder.

4) An attempted sexual assault, probably on Samantha.

5) Discussion that ended in murder. It was not planned.

6) A random crime. Someone decided to stop there and kill.

7) Planned crime but with no obvious link . The killer or killers chose the victims or the place for unknown reasons. There is some connection, but it can be so thin that it is near impossible to discover it. An example would be the Manson murders.

8) A mistake. A misidentification.

 

[Keefer]

In a town of 11,000 I would be more surprised if a substitute teacher didn't know or cross paths with most of the regular teachers unless she didn't sub for elementary teachers, but that is also improbable.
Two people travel from out of town and murder an elementary teacher and a sixteen year old kid. They leave few clues. Sounds like they might have done this before.
The motive is probably unusual and will not fit into what we usually think of off the bat.
Think of the most unlikely thing it could be.

 

[Muy Curioso]

In a town of 11,000 I would be more surprised if a substitute teacher didn't know or cross paths with most of the regular teachers unless she didn't sub for elementary teachers, but that is also improbable.
Two people travel from out of town and murder an elementary teacher and a sixteen year old kid. They leave few clues. Sounds like they might have done this before.
The motive is probably unusual and will not fit into what we usually think of off the bat.
Think of the most unlikely thing it could be.

¿Why two people?

 

[Muy Curioso]

An interesting fact is that once the killer committed the crime left towards Bardstown, but it seems to have not come from there. Why not left by the same way by which he came?

 

[ALansby]

I know this town, and vehicles are important. Everyone in the areas around Bardstown knows everyone else's vehicle. (Talking long-time residents here). it's very sad what happened to these two women and the lack of progress on the case. Someone knows something! And $50K is a lot of money. That should have den enough to get tongues a wagging.

 

[bflocket]

I know this town, and vehicles are important. Everyone in the areas around Bardstown knows everyone else's vehicle. (Talking long-time residents here). it's very sad what happened to these two women and the lack of progress on the case. Someone knows something! And $50K is a lot of money. That should have den enough to get tongues a wagging.

I wanted to add that Impala's are common around here. I know of several people (that couldn't have possibly murdered the Netherlands when they were murdered) that drive dark colored ones. I live a few miles north of Bardstown and they were killed a few miles east of Bardstown.

And seeing that it was a schoolteacher and her teenage daughter, it seems very "personal" to me. So the "someone who knows something" may only be the perpetrator(s). That may also be the case with Crystal Rogers.

But I personally feel that there are several "someones" that know "something" about happened to Officer Ellis. His murder seems too well planned for a lone perpetrator, or at least a single individual that didn't have close knowledge of him and his life. And there are only a handful of the area cops that I'd feel comfortable being around, in the trustworthy and non-corrupted sense.

 

[Muy Curioso]

Three issues.

1) A legal doubt. The bodies were discovered by Kathy's father day 22 in the morning. But detectives did not begin to investigate into the house until several hours later, when they got a warrant. Apparently, they simply verify that the killer was not inside the house, and then went out and waited for the warrant. I guess they or paramedics also checked that the victims were dead.

Is this the usual way to proceed? I thought that warrants were mandatory when police need to enter to the house of a suspect, but not when there are victims inside. At least in Spain, to my knowledge, it does not work that way. And I thought that in the USA either.

2) Another question. Only two months for the expiration of the reward, and still nothing. This is getting bad. I think I have a good idea of why detectives are acting as they do, but I have to bite my tongue. Although I think it is not important, becouse it is too late, I do not want anyone to say that investigation is damaged. What are they going to do in two months?

3) The last one. Take a look at this picture of MAPQUEST. I don´t know the date, but there is some kind of construction next to the former house of Kathy. Those who pass through this road (Karenky, at least), please, see if you can take a look and tell us.

 

[Muy Curioso]

The reward expires on October 16, next Friday. I do not know what is going to do Kathy's daughter or what think the detectives about this, but I do not think it will be useful to extend indefinitely the reward.

I would make one last attempt. A public announcement that the reward will be active for the last time for two or three weeks, a month at most, an that then it will be gone forever. And detectives should provide new information about the case to attract the interest of the public, trying to give the information the widest possible distribution.

All together, all at once, as a last attempt before the case turns cold. Yes, detectives will investigate Chevrolet Impalas for years, but except for a piece of luck, that will not lead anywhere. From Friday I'll tell you why I think that.

It seems that the case does not attract much interest outside relatives and friends, and all we need is to compare this thread with other newly threads. Speaking for myself, I promise that I will never leave this case until it is resolved, not matter how many years pass. Here or elsewhere I will try to interest people in it and get more information. I will never surrender.

 

[colette]

Snipped by me:

Yes, detectives will investigate Chevrolet Impalas for years, but except for a piece of luck, that will not lead anywhere. From Friday I'll tell you why I think that.

It seems that the case does not attract much interest outside relatives and friends, and all we need is to compare this thread with other newly threads. Speaking for myself, I promise that I will never leave this case until it is resolved, not matter how many years pass. Here or elsewhere I will try to interest people in it and get more information. I will never surrender.

I am interested in your thoughts on the Impala. I don't understand why there isn't much interest in this case, a terrible murder of a mother and daughter in their own home? I hope locally there is interest, that is what it takes to solve this.

 

[colette]

"On Tuesday afternoon, a new playground called Netherland's Playground Adventures was dedicated behind Bardstown Elementary School."

A really nice playground in Kathy's name has been constructed. Great video at site.

http://www.wlky.com/news/Bardstown-school-dedicates-playground-to-slain-teacher/35168582

 

[Muy Curioso]

I have compiled all the information published in the press (and put on the www) about the case, and I have put it in a few PDF files (if someone wants them, write me a p.m), and after analyzing it, this is a summary:

Kathy was shot several times. Samantha was beaten in the head several times, and probably also suffered defensive wounds on her arms and hands. Both suffered cuts in their throats or necks (although according to one version, only Samantha suffered stab wounds)

Unless Samantha was hit with the gun (doubtful but possible) there are at least three weapons. Not only that, three different types of weapon: a gun, a blunt object and a knife or razor. Police have not reported whether the murderers came with all the weapons or took some of them of the house.

There were probably a lot of blood in the crime scene, and detectives are convinced that the killers had to stain their clothes with blood and had to stain with blood the car in which they left.

The use of at least three weapons, the fact that Kathy and Samantha were killed in different rooms, and probably other information available to the detectives, take these to guess that there was more than one killler. However, it seems they have found no physical evidence (e.g. blood stained footprints) of the presence of more than one individual.

The detectives did not rule out that it could be a random killing, but they are inclined to think that at least one of the murderers had some connection with the victims, and that anger was involved. They have not found any motive or anyone with reason to kill Kathy or Samantha. (They should define precisely what they mean by random, in this context)

Police think the crime was planned, to some extent.

They have not said if interesting traces of DNA or suspected hairs were found. It gives the impression that not, although there might be unidentified traces.

It seems that the murderers did not take anything from the house.

The murders were very quick. It seems that the crime took place in just ten minutes, between 19:50 and 20:00. They came, killed and left.

The killers left towards Bardstown, although it appears (unless the police, for some strange reason, is hiding otherwise) that did not come from that direction.

Tomorrow I will write about the car, what police had attempted, and why I am not optimistic about they can find the car.

 

[Muy Curioso]

Police have not provided more information about the car, but after reviewing all the information, I think it is likely that the hypothesis I expressed in the forum is wrong. I think it's likely that some camera recorded a vehicle in and out of the driveway of the house (it was hypothesized by Karenky), but that the recording is of very poor quality and impossible to identify the vehicle. It might just be a blur.

Apparently, the three cars initially wanted appear in the known tape in a lapse of about 15 seconds. That could mean that the other two cars were in front and behind the Impala. One would have passed in front of the house when the Impala was ready to leave, and the other would be just behind, once the Impala incorporated to the road. For these two vehicles the Impala was identified in the recording of the gas station.

If this hypothesis is correct, if the murderers entered the car in the driveway of the house, and if the crime was premeditated, then we have very bad news. If they had parked the car away from the house, it means that they were afraid that if the car was seen by a witness, could lead to them. If they parked him close, it would mean that they were not afraid if someone see the car.

If the car was taken to the door of the house, that means, in my opinion, they had no fear that if someone saw the car, could incriminate them. This is not definitive, prisons are full of people who thought that the police would not find tracks. But I think it means that there is no direct relationship between the car and the murderers.

I think that the constant declarations of the detectives that if they found the car they resolve the case were directed more to the murderers than to the citizens. Although it might seem strange, it is likely that the desired effect was that criminals were afraid and rid of the car.

Detectives say they have investigated thousands of Impalas and have not found the one they seek. In fact, they don´t know if they have found it or not. First, they have searched between victims relatives and friends the ones with access to a Impala. Then, allegations of theft in nearby dates, before and after. Sales, fires or suspicious accidents. Color changes. Rentals.

But if relationship between these cars and the victims is not found, how to check if they are on the right track? It is a very, very difficult job. Search without knowing what you are looking, hoping to find the key sometime. Perhaps the Impala they seek, has already been investigated.