KY - Multiple casualties in active shooter situation at Old National Bank in Louisville, Apr 2023 *suspect dead*

[tara83]

I don't think CTE had anything to do with it but understand why his family is looking for excuses.

 

[Lilibet]

I don't think CTE had anything to do with it but understand why his family is looking for excuses.

I really think they are looking for reasons rather than “excuses.” This has got to be traumatic for his family. They will never get over this and neither will the families of the victims. But they know their son and if this is out of character for him I completely support their need to understand what happened if possible. If there was obvious CTE, it could be helpful information for others who have had many concussions. And it could even prove to be a small comfort to those who knew him at the bank and are shocked.
JMO

 

[Dotta]

Louisville bank shooting is America's 146th mass shooting in 2023

The US reached the grim milestone on Monday morning, which has already surpassed previous years - following the fatal shooting that left five dead and nine injured at the Old National Bank.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[YepperBepper]

I really think they are looking for reasons rather than “excuses.” This has got to be traumatic for his family. They will never get over this and neither will the families of the victims. But they know their son and if this is out of character for him I completely support their need to understand what happened if possible. If there was obvious CTE, it could be helpful information for others who have had many concussions. And it could even prove to be a small comfort to those who knew him at the bank and are shocked.
JMO

I agree.

We (LE, society and crime junkies), after a crime is committed, always look for the anomalies in a criminal's life ..and of course the propensities. I'd suggest we all look for reasons.

This person appears to have zero criminal background prior to this. He comes from a two parent home. He did not live in poverty. No known addictions in the home. Everyone, to date, have described him as a nice guy. He wasn't a loner. He had friends. His coworkers liked him and the ones interviewed were surprised and shocked that he did this. Up until a week before the crime, no reported weapon ownership nor weapon obsession seemed to be present. No evident radicalization or "cause". No manifesto or desire to be "famous". His notes at the end seemed hurried with no "meat" except to say goodbye and expressing love. So, up until this crime was committed, and perhaps a few weeks before ..his propensity was to be an average law abiding person with no major issues (like most of us).

The anomalies that I've noticed stand out like a blaring sign. Imho. Multiple concussions during childhood sports. There was enough concern about these concussions that he wore a helmet playing basketball in high school. Dad retired in 2020 to spend more time with his sons. They were adults by this time, if I'm not mistaken, so i wonder if "something" was presenting itself at this time, behaviorally. It's been reported that he thought he was being fired, but other coworkers insist that wasn't true. Again ..paranoia?

In so many of these cases we can only guess the reasons based on the things above. If CTE is present...we can add previous head injury to that list (which actually is present in some serial and mass murderers). IMHO

 

[Jinkasaurus]

No manifesto or desire to be "famous".

Except that he was live-streaming his attack to Instagram. I hope they will release the findings on his internet usage, as I think that will be very telling.

 

[YepperBepper]

Except that he was live-streaming his attack to Instagram. I hope they will release the findings on his internet usage, as I think that will be very telling.

Very true. The live streaming...was that limited to who was on his friends list? Or did he go public?

 

[BrownRice]

I really think they are looking for reasons rather than “excuses.” This has got to be traumatic for his family. They will never get over this and neither will the families of the victims. But they know their son and if this is out of character for him I completely support their need to understand what happened if possible. If there was obvious CTE, it could be helpful information for others who have had many concussions. And it could even prove to be a small comfort to those who knew him at the bank and are shocked.
JMO

I can’t imagine the grief of losing a child so unexpectedly and tragically, but also grieving for the victims and their families. And presumably the shame bestowed upon your family due to your son’s actions. Horrible.

 

[housewife]

I know there is no “one size fits all,” and I don’t know why but I was not expecting the shooter to look like this.

Primarily, I think, because I did not expect him to be 25.

I’m sure there are plenty of terrible examples out there somewhere, but this is not an anguished adolescent nor a lifelong careerist with long held grievances.

Another mass shooting with people just expecting an ordinary day at work, I imagine, and another shooter’s family that has to live with this.

jmo

Does anyone have more recent data regarding the age of mass shooters? So far, I’ve found this study below, which shows the average age of mass shooters changes depending on location. For example, the average age of school shooters is lower than avg age of office shooters.

Age of US Mass Public Shooters by Location, 1966–present​

 

[dotr]

Does anyone have more recent data regarding the age of mass shooters? So far, I’ve found this study below, which shows the average age of mass shooters changes depending on location. For example, the average age of school shooters is lower than avg age of office shooters.

Age of US Mass Public Shooters by Location, 1966–present​

Op-Ed: Older mass shooters are rare. Here's how they differ from young assailants

Before the attacks in Monterey Park and Half Moon Bay, mass shooters were getting younger and only six in a database going back to 1966 were over 60.

www.latimes.com

BY JAMES DENSLEY AND JILLIAN PETERSON
JAN. 25, 2023 lengthy article.
''Before these latest attacks, mass shooters were also getting younger overall. From 1980 to 1989, the median age of mass shooters was 39. Over the next two decades, it was 33. And from 2010 to 2019, it was 29.
Since 2020, the median age of mass shooters has come down to just 22 years old — mostly young men and boys who carried out their attacks amid the disruption of a global pandemic.

Ages vary by shooting location, the data show. Though mass shooters at offices, warehouses and houses of worship skew older, shooters at K-12 schools, colleges and universities tend to be younger — in large part because many school shooters tend to be current or former students.''

''Nearly all of the over-60 perpetrators of mass shootings, before this week, were white men — just one was a nonwhite male. Both suspects in the Monterey Park and Half Moon Bay attacks were Asian.''

''What separates the older mass shooters from those in their 20s and 30s is that the younger shooters typically study previous mass shooters for inspiration and validation. Younger shooters also tend to communicate intent to do harm in advance. This leaking of details of the attack is often seen as a final cry for help. Younger shooters also tend to leave behind manifestos to communicate their anger and grievances to the world, the data show. Analysis of their expressed motives suggest they are seeking fame and notoriety for their actions.

None of the shooters aged 60 and above in our database did that. Instead, they tend to have experienced a recent stressor, such as a family conflict or debt. They are more likely to be motivated by legal, financial and interpersonal conflicts, rather than fame-seeking.''

 

[housewife]

I agree.

We (LE, society and crime junkies), after a crime is committed, always look for the anomalies in a criminal's life ..and of course the propensities. I'd suggest we all look for reasons.

This person appears to have zero criminal background prior to this. He comes from a two parent home. He did not live in poverty. No known addictions in the home. Everyone, to date, have described him as a nice guy. He wasn't a loner. He had friends. His coworkers liked him and the ones interviewed were surprised and shocked that he did this. Up until a week before the crime, no reported weapon ownership nor weapon obsession seemed to be present. No evident radicalization or "cause". No manifesto or desire to be "famous". His notes at the end seemed hurried with no "meat" except to say goodbye and expressing love. So, up until this crime was committed, and perhaps a few weeks before ..his propensity was to be an average law abiding person with no major issues (like most of us).

The anomalies that I've noticed stand out like a blaring sign. Imho. Multiple concussions during childhood sports. There was enough concern about these concussions that he wore a helmet playing basketball in high school. Dad retired in 2020 to spend more time with his sons. They were adults by this time, if I'm not mistaken, so i wonder if "something" was presenting itself at this time, behaviorally. It's been reported that he thought he was being fired, but other coworkers insist that wasn't true. Again ..paranoia?

In so many of these cases we can only guess the reasons based on the things above. If CTE is present...we can add previous head injury to that list (which actually is present in some serial and mass murderers). IMHO

Update today:
“Sturgeon made three key points in the manifesto, which is in the hands of the police: he wanted to kill himself, he wanted to prove how easy it was to buy a gun in Kentucky, and he wanted to highlight a mental health crisis in America.”

“…there are no Kentucky laws prohibiting residents buying a gun if they have mental health disorders, violent misdemeanor convictions, domestic abuse-related restraining orders or anyone with substance abuse disorders.”

Eesh

 

[dotr]

Lengthy article.

Two Professors Found What Creates a Mass Shooter. Will Politicians Pay Attention?

Mass shooters overwhelmingly fit a certain profile, say Jillian Peterson and James Densley, which means it’s possible to ID and treat them before they commit violence.

www.politico.com

''Peterson: We don’t know for sure at this point, but our research would say that it’s likely. You had an 18-year-old commit a horrific mass shooting. His name is everywhere and we all spend days talking about “replacement theory.” That shooter was able to get our attention. So, if you have another 18-year-old who is on the edge and watching everything, that could be enough to embolden him to follow. We have seen this happen before.

Densley: Mass shooters study other mass shooters. They often find a way of relating to them, like, “There are other people out there who feel like me.”

POLITICO: Can you take us through the profile of mass shooters that emerged from your research?

Peterson: There’s this really consistent pathway. Early childhood trauma seems to be the foundation, whether violence in the home, sexual assault, parental suicides, extreme bullying. Then you see the build toward hopelessness, despair, isolation, self-loathing, oftentimes rejection from peers. That turns into a really identifiable crisis point where they’re acting differently. Sometimes they have previous suicide attempts.''

What’s different from traditional suicide is that the self-hate turns against a group. They start asking themselves, “Whose fault is this?” Is it a racial group or women or a religious group, or is it my classmates? The hate turns outward. There’s also this quest for fame and notoriety.
POLITICO: You’ve written about how mass shootings are always acts of violent suicide. Do people realize this is what’s happening in mass shootings?

Peterson: I don’t think most people realize that these are suicides, in addition to homicides. Mass shooters design these to be their final acts. When you realize this, it completely flips the idea that someone with a gun on the scene is going to deter this. If anything, that’s an incentive for these individuals. They are going in to be killed.
It’s hard to focus on the suicide because these are horrific homicides. But it’s a critical piece because we know so much from the suicide prevention world that can translate here.''

 

[YepperBepper]

Update today:
“Sturgeon made three key points in the manifesto, which is in the hands of the police: he wanted to kill himself, he wanted to prove how easy it was to buy a gun in Kentucky, and he wanted to highlight a mental health crisis in America.”

“…there are no Kentucky laws prohibiting residents buying a gun if they have mental health disorders, violent misdemeanor convictions, domestic abuse-related restraining orders or anyone with substance abuse disorders.”

Eesh

Thanks for the link

A mentally ill man who wanted to prove that it's too easy to buy guns in Kentucky? So he mass murders people to make that point. I guess that's one way for anti gun activists to get more laws passed.

Did this guy have any social media? Was he "anti gun"? His manifesto certainly suggests it.

Interesting.

Imho

 

[rabidstoat]

Louisville officer who was shot at bank is transferred to another hospital

The Louisville Metro police officer who was critically injured in the mass shooting at Old National Bank April 10 has been transferred to another hospital to treat pneumonia. Nickolas Wilt is now being cared for at UofL Health Jewish Hospital, according to a Facebook post from the Louisville Metro Police Foundation.

He is still listed in critical but stable condition and remains on a ventilator.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

The firearm a 25-year-old man used this month to shoot and kill five of his colleagues at a bank in Kentucky is expected at some point to go up for auction – a practice set by a state law the shooter’s family and Louisville’s mayor say they want changed.

The statute, in place since 2016, states that certain confiscated guns not retained for official use “shall be sold at public auction,” with some proceeds going to public safety programs.

The law governs the inevitable future of weapons that live on long after anyone they were used against might have perished.

Kentucky law allows guns used in shootings to be auctioned. The family of the Louisville bank shooter wants to stop that | CNN

The firearm a 25-year-old man used this month to shoot and kill five of his colleagues at a bank in Kentucky is expected at some point to go up for auction -- a practice set by a state law the shooter's family and Louisville's mayor say they want changed.

www.cnn.com

 

[Gemmie]

The firearm a 25-year-old man used this month to shoot and kill five of his colleagues at a bank in Kentucky is expected at some point to go up for auction – a practice set by a state law the shooter’s family and Louisville’s mayor say they want changed.

The statute, in place since 2016, states that certain confiscated guns not retained for official use “shall be sold at public auction,” with some proceeds going to public safety programs.

The law governs the inevitable future of weapons that live on long after anyone they were used against might have perished.

Kentucky law allows guns used in shootings to be auctioned. The family of the Louisville bank shooter wants to stop that | CNN

The firearm a 25-year-old man used this month to shoot and kill five of his colleagues at a bank in Kentucky is expected at some point to go up for auction -- a practice set by a state law the shooter's family and Louisville's mayor say they want changed.

www.cnn.com

I'd prefer if they'd reduce them to scrap metal.

How to Properly Destroy Firearms | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

How to Properly Destroy Firearms What are ATF’s Acceptable Destruction Procedures? Use an oxy/acetylene torch (not band sawed) Must remove at least ¼ inch of metal per cut Must be made at angles and completely sever the receiver in at least 3 critical locations (specified by model) Acceptable...

www.atf.gov

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Parents of gunman who killed five at a Louisville bank wracked by grief and confusion

Todd and Lisa Sturgeon, in an exclusive interview with NBC’s “TODAY” show, said they are trying to find the right time to reach out to their son’s victims in a “respectful” manner.

www.nbcnews.com

Todd and Lisa Sturgeon knew their son was dealing with mental health issues. But before Connor Sturgeon, 25, opened fire at a bank in downtown Louisville, they never fathomed that he could carry out an act of such horrific violence.

“I’m afraid that whatever we come up with as the cause still isn’t going to make sense,” Todd Sturgeon told NBC News’ Savannah Guthrie in an exclusive “TODAY” show interview that aired Thursday.

Lisa Sturgeon said she and her husband did not see any signs of violence before their son, an employee at Old National Bank on East Main Street, walked into his workplace and started firing bullets from an AR-15-style rifle, killing five people and injuring eight others...

 

[housewife]

Thanks for the link

A mentally ill man who wanted to prove that it's too easy to buy guns in Kentucky? So he mass murders people to make that point. I guess that's one way for anti gun activists to get more laws passed.

Did this guy have any social media? Was he "anti gun"? His manifesto certainly suggests it.

Interesting.

Imho

Has anyone requested the release of the full manifesto so the public can read it and decide for themselves? Is there a demand for the full release?

 

[YepperBepper]

Has anyone requested the release of the full manifesto so the public can read it and decide for themselves? Is there a demand for the full release?

Since they are already releasing snippets of the manifesto (i.e. motive) in the MSM, I doubt there will be demands for it as a whole....yet. I'd suggest an FOIA has already been done by some press agency out there, and it will be released. But motive, at least initially, is what most of the public is interested in and that (at least for now) has been addressed.If the basics are divulged, it doesn't leave a big question mark regarding the reason for the crime. If LE had stated that they had no idea why he did this, that there was a manifesto but they couldn't divulge any information because it was useless or too dangerous....and then everything went silent ..there would be demands for information. Imho

There has been a steady stream of information on this case from the begining. LE has been pretty forthcoming, in general. The "why's" are being answered. We know when the gun was purchased, we know he was receiving mental health care, we know he attempted suicide within the last year, we know that he expressed paranoia about his job, we know he was not terminated, we know that he appeared fine just one day before the slaughter, we know his manifesto indicated he wanted an awareness of the ease of gun access and mental health treatment access. We know his notes to his family indicated he was going to shoot people at the bank. We heard the 911 call of his mother. We have detailed interviews with his family and people that he worked with. That gives society a lot to gnaw on.

Here's a pretty detailed interview of his parents:

Parents of Louisville mass shooter break silence, describe son's panic attack days before massacre

The parents of Louisville gunman Connor Sturgeon are speaking out in a TV interview about his struggles with mental health leading up to the mass shooting.

www.foxnews.com

 

[rabidstoat]

I feel bad for the parents who seem to be blaming themselves, saying that they acted reasonably but not "exceptionally" and that their son needed parents who were exceptional and they failed him.

They seem like they were in close contact with him and were helping him to get in to see his psychiatrist on short notice. I'm not sure what they could have done.

 

[YepperBepper]

I feel bad for the parents who seem to be blaming themselves, saying that they acted reasonably but not "exceptionally" and that their son needed parents who were exceptional and they failed him.

They seem like they were in close contact with him and were helping him to get in to see his psychiatrist on short notice. I'm not sure what they could have done.

I felt the same when reading the interview. They are shattered. They seemed as if they were extremely supportive and in contact in a positive way. What more could they have done?

It's a sad legacy that this man left all around. He leaves in a blaze of gunfire and "infamy" and his victim's family and friends and his family (and society, in general) are left with a lifetime of trying to pick up and re-glue those shattered pieces.

It's for these reasons that I'm always a proponent of information release. Truth. Answers (as much as is available). It allows people to come to terms with things and move on even if it's with holes in their hearts. It also allows humans, in general, to recognize behaviors that could be warning signs of disaster.

IMHO