Kyron Horman Discussion Thread 2017-2019

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So if I were DS and I was completely innocent of any involvement in Kyrons disappearance. Why would I plead the 5th? Or refuse to sincerely cooperate with the investigation?

1. I'm lying and was involved or helped to coverup a crime.
2. I have private things in my life that I don't want to be put on blast.
3. Protecting a friend that I feel is being falsely accused.

Wasn't DS's Dad a cop? Can't remember where.
 
I followed this case so closely for years.

Yes, DDS dad was LE/Sheriff.

Some of the following is from SM and sites elsewhere, so take it as rumor or gossip.
DDS supporters contended that she pleaded the 5th because she had a tax problem she was afraid she would get in legal trouble for. IMO, I don't believe it.




Knox said:
So if I were DS and I was completely innocent of any involvement in Kyrons disappearance. Why would I plead the 5th? Or refuse to sincerely cooperate with the investigation?

1. I'm lying and was involved or helped to coverup a crime.
2. I have private things in my life that I don't want to be put on blast.
3. Protecting a friend that I feel is being falsely accused.

Wasn't DS's Dad a cop? Can't remember where.
Click to expand...
 
ReadySet said:
I followed this case so closely for years.

Yes, DDS dad was LE/Sheriff.

Some of the following is from SM and sites elsewhere, so take it as rumor or gossip.
DDS supporters contended that she pleaded the 5th because she had a tax problem she was afraid she would get in legal trouble for. IMO, I don't believe it.
Click to expand...
I don't believe it, either.

The following might help take it away from rumor or gossip: (Mr. Rosenthal is or was Desiree's attorney).

Page 11 at link containing pages 41 to 44; quote from page 44—last box on the right:
Begin Quote:
Line 5, Question by Mr. Rosenthal: How long did you intern with [redacted]? Was it like a week or a month or six months?
Line 8, Answer by DeDe: I’m not sure now. Gosh, I think it had only gotten to be maybe a couple of months.
Line 10, Question by Mr. Rosenthal: And I know I asked you this before. I apologize for repeating myself. But I’m just wondering if the answer’s occurred to you since we first spoke. Did you get paid for your work with [redacted]?
Line 15, Answer by DeDe: I’m asserting my Fifth Amendment right.
Line 16, Question by Mr. Rosenthal: Were you drawing unemployment benefits in the first half of 2010?
Line 18, Answer by DeDe: Yes, yes.
Line 19, Question by Mr. Rosenthal: Would it have been a violation, to your understanding, of receiving those benefits to have received pay?
Line 22, Answer by DeDe: Oh, yes. It is a violation to receive pay without reporting it, yes.
http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/DeDe-watermarked-1.pdf

Are we supposed to believe that DDS went to law enforcement, through her atty, of course, and suggested that if they would help her with a tax problem she would tell them what she knew, if anything, about the investigation of a missing, and possibly murdered, seven year old child? And they said yes?

And this is the same women who was pictured on a flyer released by law enforcement in the early stages of the investigation asking for the public to come forward if they noticed any of the people or the vehicle on June 4, 2010 between 9:45 am and 1:00 pm.

I think they had to have had something connecting her to Kyron's disappearance or I don't think they would have been able to put her picture on the flyer.

And then what--she sort of blackmailed law enforcement into a deal to get her tax problem dropped?

Nah, something is not right.
qzqe4p.jpg

Snipped Quote:
Author: KGW Staff
Published: 4:14 PM PDT July 30, 2013
Updated: 4:14 PM PDT July 30, 2013
DeDe Spicher testified before the grand jury for the criminal case within the past two weeks, according to Rosenthal. Spicher was friends with Terri and her whereabouts were in question the day Kyron vanished. She had previously declined to speak with investigators or testify.
Kyron Horman's mom drops civil suit, criminal investigation continues

ORS 136.619 - Immunity of witness compelled to testify - 2017 Oregon Revised Statutes
 
That's what I don't get. She says she has immunity and they say that she testified, so....after all that, she didn't give them anything??

Another thing I've been thinking about....do we think that they have Kyron's glasses?? Or is this just making sure that if they are found, they can know for sure since they put out the model # and everything?
 
Ah! Thank you! Glad others have better memory than me!
So, I believe DDS first went before the grand jury in July 2010, where she says says she was asked no questions.
Then, the deposition for Desiree's civil suit; where she pleaded the 5th.
Then grand jury again in 2013?
I believe a grand jury has met many times regarding this case. IMO

Yes, a little boy is missing and you're going to withhold information because you're worried about tax liability?

One more thing: Terri, where is Kyron?



Truth Prevails said:
I don't believe it, either.

The following might help take it away from rumor or gossip: (Mr. Rosenthal is or was Desiree's attorney).

Page 11 at link containing pages 41 to 44; quote from page 44—last box on the right:
Begin Quote:
Line 5, Question by Mr. Rosenthal: How long did you intern with [redacted]? Was it like a week or a month or six months?
Line 8, Answer by DeDe: I’m not sure now. Gosh, I think it had only gotten to be maybe a couple of months.
Line 10, Question by Mr. Rosenthal: And I know I asked you this before. I apologize for repeating myself. But I’m just wondering if the answer’s occurred to you since we first spoke. Did you get paid for your work with [redacted]?
Line 15, Answer by DeDe: I’m asserting my Fifth Amendment right.
Line 16, Question by Mr. Rosenthal: Were you drawing unemployment benefits in the first half of 2010?
Line 18, Answer by DeDe: Yes, yes.
Line 19, Question by Mr. Rosenthal: Would it have been a violation, to your understanding, of receiving those benefits to have received pay?
Line 22, Answer by DeDe: Oh, yes. It is a violation to receive pay without reporting it, yes.
http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/DeDe-watermarked-1.pdf

Are we supposed to believe that DDS went to law enforcement, through her atty, of course, and suggested that if they would help her with a tax problem she would tell them what she knew, if anything, about the investigation of a missing, and possibly murdered, seven year old child? And they said yes?

And this is the same women who was pictured on a flyer released by law enforcement in the early stages of the investigation asking for the public to come forward if they noticed any of the people or the vehicle on June 4, 2010 between 9:45 am and 1:00 pm.

I think they had to have had something connecting her to Kyron's disappearance or I don't think they would have been able to put her picture on the flyer.

And then what--she sort of blackmailed law enforcement into a deal to get her tax problem dropped?

Nah, something is not right.
qzqe4p.jpg

Snipped Quote:
Author: KGW Staff
Published: 4:14 PM PDT July 30, 2013
Updated: 4:14 PM PDT July 30, 2013
DeDe Spicher testified before the grand jury for the criminal case within the past two weeks, according to Rosenthal. Spicher was friends with Terri and her whereabouts were in question the day Kyron vanished. She had previously declined to speak with investigators or testify.
Kyron Horman's mom drops civil suit, criminal investigation continues

ORS 136.619 - Immunity of witness compelled to testify - 2017 Oregon Revised Statutes
Click to expand...
 
Do we know for sure they gave her total immunity? Prosecutors often give partial immunity, meaning immunity from a specific crime. But if you testify to a different crime, that testimony isn't immune from prosecution. So if I was her attorney, I would have told her to stay quiet too.

That being said, there is a statute of limitations on tax assessments. 4 years for personal gross income tax. So I think even if she did commit tax under-reporting that was more than 4 years ago so there is no basis for pleading the 5th.
 
bykerladi said:
Do we know for sure they gave her total immunity? Prosecutors often give partial immunity, meaning immunity from a specific crime. But if you testify to a different crime, that testimony isn't immune from prosecution. So if I was her attorney, I would have told her to stay quiet too.

That being said, there is a statute of limitations on tax assessments. 4 years for personal gross income tax. So I think even if she did commit tax under-reporting that was more than 4 years ago so there is no basis for pleading the 5th.
Click to expand...

Side note, if you want to read some hilarious stories of baiting with immunity, read Mark Bowden's book The Last Stone (about squeezing confessions bit by bit out of Lloyd Lee Welch). Summary: "I won't talk unless I have immunity." "OK, you can have immunity from everything unless you were directly involved." And gradually he reveals just how directly involved he was. I've never laughed and shaken my head so much in a true crime book.
 
bykerladi said:
Do we know for sure they gave her total immunity? Prosecutors often give partial immunity, meaning immunity from a specific crime. But if you testify to a different crime, that testimony isn't immune from prosecution. So if I was her attorney, I would have told her to stay quiet too.

That being said, there is a statute of limitations on tax assessments. 4 years for personal gross income tax. So I think even if she did commit tax under-reporting that was more than 4 years ago so there is no basis for pleading the 5th.
Click to expand...

The attorney asks about receiving unemployment benefits. If DDS was paid for work while receiving unemployment benefits, that's a different crime, but apparently only a fine is involved?

ESDWAGOV - Unemployment insurance - fighting fraud FAQ

Perhaps the immunity was for this?

BTW, where IS Kyron???
 
Laughing said:
The attorney asks about receiving unemployment benefits. If DDS was paid for work while receiving unemployment benefits, that's a different crime, but apparently only a fine is involved?

ESDWAGOV - Unemployment insurance - fighting fraud FAQ

Perhaps the immunity was for this?

BTW, where IS Kyron???
Click to expand...


Actually it would usually be just having to repay the benefits received, sometimes with interest.
 
Ok....one thing I'm still stuck on...why did LE lay out the entire outfit? How did they get the exact same clothes?? Terri kept a list of exactly what he was wearing and where she got it from?? That tshirt came from the CSI experience exhibit, right?? How did they get one of those on short notice?? Did the exhibit FedEx one to the police department Friday night?? Did Terri have two of them?? Sorry....I get stuck on weird stuff. And the picture of the glasses? Is that an old pair of Kyron's? They look like they've been worn for a little bit. They don't look like a try-on pair from the doctor's office. I feel like if LE would release just something that they have held back...it might cause someone to break.
 
So, according to Kaine, he hasn't been informed of the search area being narrowed to 100 acres.

I'm not a betting soul, but if I were my money would be on what Desiree says.

Snipped quote: "I know that recently there were some statements in the media made around honing in or limiting a search area or a few other things that might indicate that maybe there's a light at the end of the tunnel on this thing, and that's not the case," Kaine said. "We are still actively looking for him. To my knowledge, via the briefings I've had, there is no narrowed search area."
Kyron Horman's father says investigation into son's 2010 disappearance 'still very active'
 
I don't understand why he would want to contradict Desiree. So, now TH can breathe a little sigh of relief?? Even if Desiree's comments are made to make TH tighten her butt up and cause a little stress--maybe it makes her trip up. But with Kaine making that comment....she might think she's okay.
 
ReadySet said:
I followed this case so closely for years.

Yes, DDS dad was LE/Sheriff.

Some of the following is from SM and sites elsewhere, so take it as rumor or gossip.
DDS supporters contended that she pleaded the 5th because she had a tax problem she was afraid she would get in legal trouble for. IMO, I don't believe it.
Click to expand...

4. She was offered immunity, and took it because it was the only was to prove she wasn't lying. If she was never involved, and always told the same story- but they insisted she was lying- then by taking immunity, and continuing to tell the same story, she could finally prove she really didn't know anything. Because at that point with immunity on her side, she had no reason to lie.

Just another possibility. Let's all remember that at the end of the day we have no crime scene, trial records, or a single tangible fact from LE that actually tie Terri or DeDe to Kyron's disappearance- and it's not as if they didn't try to find one, or lacked the resources to do so.
 
We don't know why she took immunity, if she really did. I don't believe she took it for taxes, don't buy it, moo.
We don't know what LE has in terms of tying Terri and DeDe to Kyron's disappearance. How would we know? Do you think LE has shared everything with us?
LE can have a lot and still not arrest. So yes, I believe they have a lot that you and I don't know about.

By the way, Terri? Where is Kyron?


Mutzman said:
4. She was offered immunity, and took it because it was the only was to prove she wasn't lying. If she was never involved, and always told the same story- but they insisted she was lying- then by taking immunity, and continuing to tell the same story, she could finally prove she really didn't know anything. Because at that point with immunity on her side, she had no reason to lie.

Just another possibility. Let's all remember that at the end of the day we have no crime scene, trial records, or a single tangible fact from LE that actually tie Terri or DeDe to Kyron's disappearance- and it's not as if they didn't try to find one, or lacked the resources to do so.
Click to expand...
 
ReadySet said:
We don't know why she took immunity, if she really did. I don't believe she took it for taxes, don't buy it, moo.
We don't know what LE has in terms of tying Terri and DeDe to Kyron's disappearance. How would we know? Do you think LE has shared everything with us?
LE can have a lot and still not arrest. So yes, I believe they have a lot that you and I don't know about.

By the way, Terri? Where is Kyron?
Click to expand...


Pardon me,

I’m just realizing I replied to the wrong message. My 4th option was in reply to a member who had cited 3 hypothetical reasons for DeDe to take immunity... I was just throwing another one out there. Their hypothetical assumed that she took immunity, which is why my option did as well.

In regard to your comment that, “We don’t know what LE has in terms of tying Terri and DeDe...”- I agree, but my point is that I don’t think we don’t know enough to make such bold assumptions of guilt.

They don’t have a crime scene, there’s not a trial to cite facts from, and there obviously wasn’t enough evidence to indicate either woman. Everything people have to say about Terri and DeDe is circumstantial, while valid, it’s still incredibly circumstantial- and therefore important to remain open-minded.

I thought this site was for critical thinkers, not a platform to act as judge and juror...?
 
Replying to Mutzman:

Assuming you mean "indict." Just because there has not been an indictment, doesn't mean there is not a lot of evidence. However, there may not be enough for Prosecutor's office to believe trial would be successful. And, their goal may be to actually recover Kyron.

It is important to remain open minded at the beginning of a case. As facts and evidence are brought to light, we no longer need to consider every possibility.

Critical thinking does not preclude drawing conclusions.

I have followed this case from the beginning. I gave TH the benefit of the doubt at first. When she gave up her little daughter in order to protect herself, that was a turning point for me.

This is a site for critical thinking, but it's not a criminal court. It's the court of public opinion.

All IMO
 
Mutzman said:
Pardon me,

I’m just realizing I replied to the wrong message. My 4th option was in reply to a member who had cited 3 hypothetical reasons for DeDe to take immunity... I was just throwing another one out there. Their hypothetical assumed that she took immunity, which is why my option did as well.

In regard to your comment that, “We don’t know what LE has in terms of tying Terri and DeDe...”- I agree, but my point is that I don’t think we don’t know enough to make such bold assumptions of guilt.

They don’t have a crime scene, there’s not a trial to cite facts from, and there obviously wasn’t enough evidence to indicate either woman. Everything people have to say about Terri and DeDe is circumstantial, while valid, it’s still incredibly circumstantial- and therefore important to remain open-minded.

I thought this site was for critical thinkers, not a platform to act as judge and juror...?
Click to expand...
As a famous politician just said "We choose truth over facts". Terri is a mastermind...I guess that it some's truth.
 
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