I don't know about TH; however, I'm 5'1" and would have trouble getting car seats into a truck with or without the kids. Even when I was younger and worked out, I had trouble just getting into most trucks let alone lifting anything into it. I drove a Toyota Celica and easily transported my nieces, nephews, and their stuff in it.
Kyron Horman Discussion Thread 2020 - 2022
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That is the question. Did they check "the weeks prior?" If so, what did she buy? I've watched plenty of missing person/crime shows on Dateline, America's Most Wanted, etc. where they got the store copies of the credit card receipts showing the suspect buying shovels, plastic bags, storage totes, medication to drug the victim, rope, duct tape, etc? I didn't know the stores kept track of the individual purchases until I saw it on tv.
FergusMcDuck
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You can find cached versions of articles that are no longer available at archive.org
Truth Prevails
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Authorities are seeking to identify the person, or persons, who may have been spotted by the truck as it was parked outside the school's front fence in the shoulder of Northwest Skyline Boulevard. Someone possibly moved the pickup and parked it up a gravel path in front of the school's playground while [TMH] was inside the school with her stepson for his science fair.
Underhill said investigators want to identify anybody "in or in immediate proximity to that truck."
"We're looking for additional witnesses," he added, standing in the Brooks Hill Historic Church across from the school in front of blown-up photos of the Horman truck staged at each location.
The appeal to the public comes as investigators continue to try to determine the whereabouts of Terri Moulton Horman and her friend DeDe Spicher during overlapping hours on the day Kyron disappeared. Criminal justice experts say authorities likely are also seeking to support testimony they obtained from witnesses before an investigative grand jury.
Kyron Horman investigators ask public to help track white pickup Terri Horman drove
Investigators also said they are seeking more information on a person or persons who were in, or in the immediate vicinity of the Horman white pickup truck that was parked in the front of Skyline School while Terri Moulton Horman was inside between 8:15 and 8:45 a.m. on June 4.www.oregonlive.com
They already had witnesses who placed the truck on the access road and on the shoulder of Skyline Boulevard on June 4, 2010. They were seeking more.
Did LE do a second presser telling us what they found: no. I wouldn't expect them, too. This is an open and active investigation.
In cases that have gone cold, they will sometimes release new information. The Tara Grinstead case, for example. LE eventually released that they had found the glove with DNA inside of it. That was to make the owner of the DNA sweat a little, not to quench our thirst for details. They eventually solved that case.
At about 37 seconds into the video:
Desiree Young: It's not a stranger who walked into Kyron's school and took him that day. We know who it was.
Grand jury hearing evidence in Kyron Horman case, document reveals
Portland, Ore. — A grand jury continues to hear evidence in the disappearance of Kyron Horman and has met multiple times.
www.kgw.com
arielilane
Justice for Liz Barraza
IMO, On Jun 4, 2010, the day seemed planned out by TH all in order to have an alibi.
www.khou.com
The book described how Terri Horman washed Kyron's jacket and backpack the day he disappeared.
However, TH didn't count on being seen leaving with Kyron, Burner phones awareness, TH and friend can't account for missing time that day, TH story changed multiple times during questioning, and two failed polygraph tests (walked out on third attempt).
I am sure there is more than I've listed here.
Where is Kyron Horman?
- Advised school of dr appt
- Requested to use the white truck
- Prior to leaving the school took photo of Kyron with science project
- Purchases made at Fred Meyer stores
- Driving infant (due to an earache) around
- Goes to the gym (who does that with a sick infant?)
- Post on Facebook
Kyron Horman
A newly released book, "Boy Missing: The Search for Kyron Horman," provides intriguing details into the investigation.
www.khou.com
The book described how Terri Horman washed Kyron's jacket and backpack the day he disappeared.
However, TH didn't count on being seen leaving with Kyron, Burner phones awareness, TH and friend can't account for missing time that day, TH story changed multiple times during questioning, and two failed polygraph tests (walked out on third attempt).
I am sure there is more than I've listed here.
Where is Kyron Horman?
FergusMcDuck
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They already had witnesses who placed the truck on the access road and on the shoulder of Skyline Boulevard on June 4, 2010. They were seeking more.
Did LE do a second presser telling us what they found: no. I wouldn't expect them, too. This is an open and active investigation.
In cases that have gone cold, they will sometimes release new information. The Tara Grinstead case, for example. LE eventually released that they had found the glove with DNA inside of it. That was to make the owner of the DNA sweat a little, not to quench our thirst for details. They eventually solved that case.
At about 37 seconds into the video:
Desiree Young: It's not a stranger who walked into Kyron's school and took him that day. We know who it was.
Grand jury hearing evidence in Kyron Horman case, document reveals
Portland, Ore. — A grand jury continues to hear evidence in the disappearance of Kyron Horman and has met multiple times.
So, this quote is interesting for what it says:
It confirms that Terri parked at the shoulder of the road, as I have read but been unable to confirm from a reliable source until now. But the second sentence, "someone possibly moved" doesn't really scream certainty to me. All it tells me is that there was a white truck on the access road, it may or may not have been Terri's.
But the LE are looking for a person - not Terri - seen by the truck and they don't think it was Dede Spicher:
And in the interview transcribed here by @BeanE, MVP of the early threads, the questioner implies the person seen was a man:
So, this tells me there is a stranger the MCSO were looking for, a stranger whose connection to Terri - if any! - was unclear. And at least some people were under the impression that it was a man.
The first bullet point contradicts the others. If she's advised the school of a fake appointment that day, everything she does after is irrelevant.
Kyron Horman
A newly released book, "Boy Missing: The Search for Kyron Horman," provides intriguing details into the investigation.
The book described how Terri Horman washed Kyron's jacket and backpack the day he disappeared.
If the jacket and backpack were left in the school, why would they need to be washed? They wouldn't have been present for any abduction or murder.
She likely wasn't.
That only were bought weeks after Kyron's disappearance.
Account for, yes, prove, no. Both have given accounts of what they did during the time, and neither has been contradicted (unless you count Dede not hearing the call to lunch, which I don't).
That's not a fact.
I'd put that on the level of an ominous tarot reading.
Wherever he is, I'm pretty certain he will never be found unless the investigation unshackles itself from Terri.
FergusMcDuck
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I keep going back to two passages from the Rebecca Morris book, passages I think have implications that the writer didn't see. First this:
Immediately, it shows that the FBI weren't necessarily on board with the Terri-did-it POV. But more importantly, the bolded part goes to the core of the early finger-pointing towards Terri. On June 10th, almost a week after the abduction, the search took an unexplained leap to Sauvie Island, after having stayed in the vicinity of the school:
A week later, the blog Willamette Week revealed the reason why:
In the following weeks other media began to repeat this info:
Here's a screenshot of a mail showed by KPTV, from a friend of Terri's:
Now go back and read the passage from the Morris book. Basically what happened was this:
* The MCSO, struggling with properly interpreting cell phone data, think Terri's phone ping means she was on Sauvie Island a few days into the investigation.
* When questioned, Terri denies being on Sauvie Island. She was driving on Hwy 30, across from the island, but didn't cross the bridge.
* The police, already suspicious (perhaps due to step-mother syndrome or Desiree's accusations), have now caught her in a lie (they think). They start searching Sauvie Island and soon the info is leaked to the public.
* Later they get professional assistance that show they were wrong - the cell tower (which isn't even on the island) services the entire area, including Hwy 30 - meaning there was no contradiction between cell phone data and Terri's account.
* However, at this point, the investigators have sunk a lot of cost in the Terri option. They've got the gardnener, the truck sightings based on posters with Terri in them - so this one slips away...
It's very similar to the Meredith Kercher case like that. Early suspicion based on poor hunches and misinterpretations, after which LE are pressured into getting more evidence (which in the Kercher case included dodgy DNA testing) to support their original theory, which keeps it alive even after the original hunches/misinterpretations get cleared up.
Immediately, it shows that the FBI weren't necessarily on board with the Terri-did-it POV. But more importantly, the bolded part goes to the core of the early finger-pointing towards Terri. On June 10th, almost a week after the abduction, the search took an unexplained leap to Sauvie Island, after having stayed in the vicinity of the school:
A week later, the blog Willamette Week revealed the reason why:
In the following weeks other media began to repeat this info:
Here's a screenshot of a mail showed by KPTV, from a friend of Terri's:
Now go back and read the passage from the Morris book. Basically what happened was this:
* The MCSO, struggling with properly interpreting cell phone data, think Terri's phone ping means she was on Sauvie Island a few days into the investigation.
* When questioned, Terri denies being on Sauvie Island. She was driving on Hwy 30, across from the island, but didn't cross the bridge.
* The police, already suspicious (perhaps due to step-mother syndrome or Desiree's accusations), have now caught her in a lie (they think). They start searching Sauvie Island and soon the info is leaked to the public.
* Later they get professional assistance that show they were wrong - the cell tower (which isn't even on the island) services the entire area, including Hwy 30 - meaning there was no contradiction between cell phone data and Terri's account.
* However, at this point, the investigators have sunk a lot of cost in the Terri option. They've got the gardnener, the truck sightings based on posters with Terri in them - so this one slips away...
It's very similar to the Meredith Kercher case like that. Early suspicion based on poor hunches and misinterpretations, after which LE are pressured into getting more evidence (which in the Kercher case included dodgy DNA testing) to support their original theory, which keeps it alive even after the original hunches/misinterpretations get cleared up.
I agree especially with the FBI profile. What information does the book give about the "white truck?" I'm especially interested in the timing of the different sightings of the truck both in the parking lot and on the access road. Could there have been TWO different white trucks at Skyline that morning? White trucks and white vans are both very common. Witnesses thought they saw a man in a white truck parked where? Could Terri have left and a second truck was assumed to be Kaine's?
FergusMcDuck
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The second passage is this:
The fabled Terri-hates-Kyron emails, which were only spoken of in abstract for years, were finally revealed - not the whole text, but what they were about. Basically, two women Desiree had little reason to like - the stepmothers to her two sons - were talking about the difficulty of raising stepsons. The bolded is the only quote Desiree gives, though. When she says "how much they disliked their stepsons" or "coming between her and Kaine", there are no quotes.
When she first talked about the mails, she was harsher:
From Desiree and Kaine on Dr Phil, Kaine denies seeing the emails, contrary to Desiree's version.
Desiree confirms in the Morris book that they are the same emails:
The obvious interpretation of all this - to me - is that Desiree is reading a lot into this email exchange from two women she dislikes talking about her sons (and quite likely about her), giving it a spin that makes it unrecognisable to Kaine.
In other words, I don't think the emails ever said Terri hated Kyron and wanted to hurt him.
The fabled Terri-hates-Kyron emails, which were only spoken of in abstract for years, were finally revealed - not the whole text, but what they were about. Basically, two women Desiree had little reason to like - the stepmothers to her two sons - were talking about the difficulty of raising stepsons. The bolded is the only quote Desiree gives, though. When she says "how much they disliked their stepsons" or "coming between her and Kaine", there are no quotes.
When she first talked about the mails, she was harsher:
From Desiree and Kaine on Dr Phil, Kaine denies seeing the emails, contrary to Desiree's version.
Desiree confirms in the Morris book that they are the same emails:
The obvious interpretation of all this - to me - is that Desiree is reading a lot into this email exchange from two women she dislikes talking about her sons (and quite likely about her), giving it a spin that makes it unrecognisable to Kaine.
In other words, I don't think the emails ever said Terri hated Kyron and wanted to hurt him.
FergusMcDuck
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Closest I can find are these:
Not much in the way of details, certainly not timing.
But I agree. I think once Terri left, Mystery Man parked his white truck on the access road (perhaps after having initially parked in the lot, but I don't think that's necessary). He was the person seen in the truck, and in the school.
Adding to this, Terri claimed she last saw Kyron headed toward his classroom. She doesn't say she saw Kyron enter his classroom. I remember something about Kyron going down to see a specific science project (electrical?). I wonder if he went after Terri last saw him. If someone saw Terri turn away, then saw Kyron change direction, he would know Kyron was alone and vulnerable.
FergusMcDuck
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What I suspect is that the whole exhibit tour - that was supposed to take up the whole time from 8:45 to 10:00 - was rather chaotic and unorganized. Imagine dozens of groups of kids herded by non-teacher adults throughout the entire school. Perhaps Kyron's group left the classroom before he made it there, and he left to catch up. Perhaps when he made it there the groups had barely begun to organize, and he decided to take another round before getting back. Neither is all that distant from things I did at his age. That there is uncertainty about Kyron being seen after 8:45 is hardly strange - in all that chaos, could anyone be certain of the time they saw him and if it definitely was Kyron?
I still think the teenager in the gym (where Terri said she never went), Kyron's friend TP and the unknown witness that put Kyron at the south entrance at 9:00 are credible and paint an interesting picture.
Yes, I've never understood how those 9:00 witnesses were dismissed apparently with no reason given.
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What if the person that abducted Kyron wasn't an adult?
www.fox6now.com
Would another child probably older than Kyron be noticed among all of the visitors?
A witness claimed to have seen a man in a white truck talking on the phone. What if he had an accomplice inside the school possibly a teenager previously abducted.
Milwaukee boy abducted, teen girls arrested: police
The boy's mother told FOX6 that she was trying to help the teens who are now accused of taking her son.
A witness claimed to have seen a man in a white truck talking on the phone. What if he had an accomplice inside the school possibly a teenager previously abducted.
ReadySet
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Questions I've asked but I've never seen answered on this thread:
Why was a description of the "man" who allegedly took Kyron from the school never put out?
Is there any other case where an innocent parent suspected of disappearing a child stopped talking and got an attorney?
If Terri knew Kyron better than anyone, didn't she think of something after the first three and a half weeks, that may have been helpful to LE?
If the school was guilty of being "sloppy" "disorganized" and "careless," why did not one parent at Kyron's school sue the school/district?
Why was a description of the "man" who allegedly took Kyron from the school never put out?
Is there any other case where an innocent parent suspected of disappearing a child stopped talking and got an attorney?
If Terri knew Kyron better than anyone, didn't she think of something after the first three and a half weeks, that may have been helpful to LE?
If the school was guilty of being "sloppy" "disorganized" and "careless," why did not one parent at Kyron's school sue the school/district?
FergusMcDuck
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Good question, because we do know the police were looking at least one unidentified person - yet never even gave out said person's gender. I'd place it among the many errors of this investigation; misjudging the balance between giving pertinent details to the public and keeping important details close to the chest.
If there isn't, there should be. There is already a stigma against suspects getting lawyers, perpetuated in true crime communities, that's rather worrying, and only serves to encourage poor law enforcement. It's saying the ends justify the means.
If she knew him better than anyone she likely gave them all pertinent information immediately. If LE was missing information, they could always contact her lawyer.
Because the parents placed all the blame on Terri, to what I assume was the great relief of the school, which objectively did wrong here. Who else would have a case?
ReadySet
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Or, there was no strange man that was unaccounted for, and the idea that there was a suspect zero is a distraction from the truth.
IMO, innocent parents don't stop talking because they want to help LE find their child. They weigh their own interests against the child's interests and decide to keep talking.
It's not unusual for parents to think of something weeks or months later that they think may be helpful to LE. An interaction, a person, a place associated with the child. LE wouldn't know this information was missing unless Terri told them.
I find it difficult/impossible to believe that every single parent at that school was so overwhelmingly swayed by what the parents said that they would put their children's safety and well being aside. I don't believe it.
Truth Prevails
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Good point. As the man was purportedly seen by "witnesses", a description should have been available. However, he always remained an undescribed "unknown man". Who witnesses saw. But no approximation of height, weight, hair color, clothing description, etc., etc. was given.
Snipped quote: The fliers have been appearing around Kyron's stepmother's Roseburg neighborhood. They show age progression photos that say Kyron was last seen with an unknown man.
...
The information references a mysterious man who might be connected to Kyron's disappearance.
Kaine Horman hopes people will ignore Roseburg fliers featuring Kyron
{p}The fliers have been appearing around Kyron's stepmother's Roseburg neighborhood. They show age progression photos that say Kyron was last seen with an unknown man.{/p}
kpic.com
And, alternately, there is this:
Snipped quote: As to whether anyone had been ruled out in Kyron's disappearance, Staton responded, "A number of people have been ruled out; we are unable to discuss the specifics of these individuals."
Sheriff says thousands of tips on Kyron case still coming in
Investigators 'hope' that the missing boy is still aliveThe Multnomah County Sheriff's Office has received 3,300 tips in the search for 7-year-old Kyron Horman and continues to follow those leads every day, Sheriff Dan Staton said Friday in an e-mailed response to questions submitted by reporters.
FergusMcDuck
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Sure, but it doesn't change that the police was actively looking for a strange person - and didn't distribute a description of them.
And I think that it is wrong to encourage this false dichotomy. It's the kind of pressure that leads innocent people to prison. It's not their own interests versus the child's interests, it's their own versus LE's interests - which is far from always the same as the child's.
And it's not unusual for them to not be able to think of something else, as well.
But it wasn't just the parents, was it? It was law enforcement. It was media. Essentially everyone ganged up on Terri and by implication, exonerated the school. At that point, what would another parent even sue over? Their kids are safe, after all.
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