Kyron Horman's mom's civil suit against Terri Horman

[ami]

Excellent news is you ask me! They have something new!

There are a couple of investigative pieces that are going to open up," Staton told The Oregonian Tuesday. "Our belief is they're going to open up several investigative doors."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/...ounty_sheriff_cites.html#incart_river_default

I would really, REALLY love to believe this. And I'm actually more encouraged that the WS members I trust are excited by this than I am by the news itself!

When I first read this article it actually sounded to me like the same "bla bla bla" they used during the initial divorce proceedings. Yes, this time they hint vaguely about "leads" and "avenues" but to my ears that sounds just like their argument two years ago that kept the divorce moving forward. And there has never been a whiff of anythings that's come from that.

I mean they simply couldn't be more vague. "The case is still evolving" (they've said this for years) and " a couple of investigative pieces... that open investigative doors" --- to me that sounds like they're saying they are still following leads that trickle in (which we already knew) that MIGHT open up new areas of investigation (which sounds like the couple of tips might or might not create more questions to be asked - this has also been true for years). And since the "beginning of the investigation" was when they gathered the low-hanging fruit of information... this stands to reason that that's the best info they have.

I really want to catch all your excitement about this, but instead I find myself pissed and depressed. It seems like Desiree filed the law suit to move the stalled investigation along, and the investigators knew the clock was ticking on them to make an arrest or lose the secrecy of their evidence. They couldn't make an arrest, so they conferred with the judge and used the same "ongoing investigation" argument they used for the divorce - and threw in a vague reference to a vague idea they might have that might or might not open even more stages of ongoing investigation (not even "might lead to an arrest" but just "might open more investigative doors").

I feel more like Desiree's quest to get information and reopen the most critical parts of the case were squashed by the investigators. I wonder how she feels about this.

I would LOVE to be wrong. I would love for them to have a hot lead they are underplaying - a witness that came forward that is yielding all kinds of new information, that they are covering for with vagueness and misdirection. I really want that to be true and your excitement is really encouraging. But just from this article I feel deflated.

 

[nosysw]

I hear what you're saying Ami but this is the line that makes me think they have something more: D.A. Michael Schrunk; "Sealing these documents is in the best interests of justice, will preserve the integrity of the investigation, and will promote the safety of the witnesses involved."

Why would anyone's safety be in jeopardy unless they have provided some pretty damning testimony?

raying:

 

[angelmom]

So, you don't think it could mean they have new evidence now and that's why the civil case is being delayed and the criminal case is moving forward? I guess I'm seeing this as a positive but am I wrong here?

It could. I'm just saying we've seen this song and dance before in the divorce proceedings; got all excited and ready but not a word of new info. I hope I'm wrong.

I never thought you could take the 5th to cover your friends *advertiser censored*. I always thought you take the 5th only when what you answer would incriminate YOURSELF! So DeeDee is in this up to her proverbial neck! What exactly did she do?

I only hope they tell DeeDee that..too bad so sad..either answer or go straight to Jail.

The problem is that she can plead the 5th for fear of incriminating herself on some other (possibly petty) crime. For example, if she wasn't supposed to be working because she was receiving some benefits from the government, she could refuse to testify about her activities for that day. The court doesn't get to ask which crime she is refusing to testify about, and for all we know there is nothing at all.

Why the need to stop the civil trial just cause they are investigating some leads? HMMMMMMM

To be fair, we knew this argument was coming. Despite our desire to see justice done for Kyron, it is still wrong to force someone to give up their 5th amendment rights for the sake of a civil trial. This is an end run around the justice system, and I'm relieved that it isn't working even though I wish the truth would come out.

I hear what you're saying Ami but this is the line that makes me think they have something more: D.A. Michael Schrunk; "Sealing these documents is in the best interests of justice, will preserve the integrity of the investigation, and will promote the safety of the witnesses involved."

Why would anyone's safety be in jeopardy unless they have provided some pretty damning testimony?

raying:

The DA may be referring to some of the child witnesses, whose parents might (understandably) be concerned with their safety if their names were leaked. If my child had been a witness that day, especially if it were to something minor, I can imagine telling the DA that if my child's name were leaked that we would disappear and not testify.

Just think if you had an inkling of doubt about Terri's guilt. Can you imagine the fear of your child's name being made public while the real kidnapper is out there and not being watched by anyone? Farfetched, yes, but something that would keep me up at night if I were that parent.

Like I said, I hope I'm wrong. But this just feels like more of the same to me.

 

[Donjeta]

To be fair, we knew this argument was coming. Despite our desire to see justice done for Kyron, it is still wrong to force someone to give up their 5th amendment rights for the sake of a civil trial. This is an end run around the justice system, and I'm relieved that it isn't working even though I wish the truth would come out.

But that's not what this argument is about, is it? It's not Terri's attorneys arguing that it's wrong to to try to make her give up her 5th Amendment rights, (they did that already but apparently it didn't work), the motion that the judge granted has to do with the prosecutors arguing that they don't want their evidence given away at the civil trial just yet.

 

[angelmom]

But that's not what this argument is about, is it? It's not Terri's attorneys arguing that it's wrong to to try to make her give up her 5th Amendment rights, (they did that already but apparently it didn't work), the motion that the judge granted has to do with the prosecutors arguing that they don't want their evidence given away at the civil trial just yet.

I think it's both. Terri's lawyers are trying to stop it, and the DA has weighed in as well.

I think the judge's hands are really tied, just like with the divorce. It is a loser either way. If the divorce and/or the civil case goes forward and Terri loses, what happens later if they find out she really is innocent and they have kept Baby K from her, cost her thousands in legal fees and damages, etc? Some might say "well she could have saved herself all of that if she talked" but she is following her lawyer's advice.

If she wins and they find out later that she really is guilty, they will have given Baby K back to a child killer and possibly ruined their chances of a guilty verdict at a criminal trial.

Since they obviously don't even have enough to charge her, I don't know how anyone can say FOR SURE what happened. That makes any forward motion a total crap shoot until the criminal case is more defined. Which the DA doesn't seem anxious to do. And that alone tells me they don't have anything substantial.

 

[sarah7855]

I think it's both. Terri's lawyers are trying to stop it, and the DA has weighed in as well.

RSBM.

Terri's lawyers tried and failed to stop it. This lawsuit was filed June 1st. It's almost six months later. If the state and MSCO wanted to stop it, why wait this long? We are hearing that they are investigating "new leads" and "furthering old leads" and are keeping the motions to abate the civil proceedings sealed in part to protect wintesses. I really feel that either someone cut a deal or LE just broke something wide open.

Of all the cases I've followed at WS, every last one of them, this is the one I want resolution in more than anything. Please, please let this be it. lease:

 

[loves2bmom]

This statement also adds to my thinking this is good news. Why would DY's attorney file a motion to abate the civil case unless they were told LE has something that will move the criminal case forward.


Desiree Young's attorney filed a motion to abate the civil proceedings Monday. Judge Henry Kantor signed to abate the case until Nov. 26, 2014, according to Multnomah County records.

http://www.kptv.com/story/20200850/deputies-confirm-new-developments-in-kyron-horman-case

 

[loves2bmom]

Also, Judge Kantor is supposed to release some sort of statement today explaining his ruling. Since the motions are all sealed, I don't expect to glean much from it but will keep an eye out if it's released.

 

[sarah7855]

This statement also adds to my thinking this is good news. Why would DY's attorney file a motion to abate the civil case unless they were told LE has something that will move the criminal case forward.


Desiree Young's attorney filed a motion to abate the civil proceedings Monday. Judge Henry Kantor signed to abate the case until Nov. 26, 2014, according to Multnomah County records.

http://www.kptv.com/story/20200850/deputies-confirm-new-developments-in-kyron-horman-case

Huh. All the other articles say it was MSCO and the DA that filed for the abatement. Wonder if it's true that DY's attorney filed the motion or if it's misreporting? If it was her attorney, then it definitely says that yes, this is going to be big.

 

[loves2bmom]

Huh. All the other articles say it was MSCO and the DA that filed for the abatement. Wonder if it's true that DY's attorney filed the motion or if it's misreporting? If it was her attorney, then it definitely says that yes, this is going to be big.

It could very well be poor reporting...wouldn't be the first time. :furious:

But I think we might know more when the ruling is released today. DY did say to the reporter that she too is hopeful that the new leads are what they've been praying for.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

My apologies if this has been asked/answered: How will the Judge's ruling affect the December 14 hearing on whether or not DeDe can be forced to testify in the civil case? Is that hearing likely to be postponed?

 

[Chili Fries]

It could be Dede trying to cut some kind of deal, but I wonder if somebody other than Dede who knows something saw how bad Dede looked when her deposition went public and how serious this thing was getting, and thought - that could ruin my life, I better tell the cops what I know.

My hope when this civil case was announced was that it could spur the criminal investigation into action. Here's hoping again that we are seeing meaningful repercussions.

 

[ami]

I hear what you're saying Ami but this is the line that makes me think they have something more: D.A. Michael Schrunk; "Sealing these documents is in the best interests of justice, will preserve the integrity of the investigation, and will promote the safety of the witnesses involved."

Why would anyone's safety be in jeopardy unless they have provided some pretty damning testimony?

raying:

They might well have provided damning testimony. I haven't posted here in a while, but as far as my take on the case: I fully believe that Terri is guilty. I believe there is evidence that MCSO has that has convinced them that she's guilty, and I believe that it's not quite enough to ensure a conviction, yet, but that they hope and believe that at some point they will have enough, and that they will convict her. I also think that they are desperately trying to keep the evidence that they have under wraps, and that they are therefore really invested in wanting the divorce and civil suit kept on the back burner so their aces aren't shown before they have the final puzzle piece (to mix metaphors - sorry! lol)

I was in a gloomy mood before my coffee when I wrote my post this morning, but what I was trying to express is that even given all that I wrote above, I'm not sure they have that critical piece of evidence yet, or even that they are significantly closer to it. I PRAY I'm wrong. I'm afraid the critical piece they're looking for is - horribly - where Kyron's remains are located. Then they have "a body" and they know they are charging her with murder and they have some kind of evidence of how, when, where, maybe even who and how many were responsible. I'm afraid that another winter will come and if they do have leads, they won't be able to follow them easily.

And I sort of feel like this delay came because Dede was put on the stand and maybe MCSO feels she's the weak link and they want to cut her a deal, and they wouldn't be able to if she reveals too much (even inadvertently) on the stand in the civil case. I actually hope it's something like that, honestly - a live witness who can speak and reveal something solid. But I'm just not convinced (yet) that the delay is because of a late-breaking crack in the case. That it's more of just a stall, hoping against hope that at some point in 2013 or 2014 they will find something that finally leads somewhere prosecutable.

Rambling, sorry....

 

[matou]

"

http://www.kgw.com/news/Kyron-Horman-civil-suit-delayed-for-criminal-case-181040821.html

Witnesses? so do the new leads mean more than one person talked?
How many people are involved in this?

Maybe the witnesses are kids? r.e. "the safety of the witnesses involved" JMO That statement really makes me think something real is happening in this case now.

 

[Chili Fries]

Maybe the witnesses are kids? r.e. "the safety of the witnesses involved" JMO That statement really makes me think something real is happening in this case now.

Since LE thinks Terri tried to hire someone to kill Kaine as well as disappear Kyron, they are probably worried about any child or adult who is providing info/possibly testifying in a criminal case.

 

[shorty42404]

I read over this article and caught this:

"Kantor allowed the request, but did amend it to state that the motion could be subject to an additional request to have it unsealed."

http://www.koinlocal6.com/mostpopular/story/Judge-approves-motion-to-delay-civil-lawsuit/WP6-BrL9jk6kn8KtQTcUaQ.cspx

How could it be unsealed if the civil case is delayed?

 

[Indy Anna]

Video with article:

Deputies confirm new developments in Kyron Horman case
http://www.kpho.com/story/20200850/deputies-confirm-new-developments-in-kyron-horman-case

 

[JoCoKSEyes]

Maybe the witnesses are kids? r.e. "the safety of the witnesses involved" JMO That statement really makes me think something real is happening in this case now.

If anyone needed further proof that this case is bigger than Terri, there it is. My opinion is that we will have an organized crime / drug cartel / human trafficking connection before this is all said and done.

 

[Shadowboy]

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/..._county_judge_briefly.html#incart_flyout_news

"In a one-paragraph order signed Wednesday, Kantor said he delayed the civil lawsuit until Aug. 1, unless there's an appropriate motion to vacate it."
(edit)
"Kantor wrote that he made his decision after conferring privately with attorneys for Desiree Young, who brought the civil suit, attorneys for Kyron Horman's stepmother Terri Moulton Horman, with state prosecutors and also with a witness in the case. His order does not identify the witness in the case."

 

[loves2bmom]

I'm very confused about the dates now. MCSO and DA delayed it for 9 months so that matches the Aug. 1st date mentioned in Kantor's ruling. So what's the 2 year delay "supposedly" filed by DY's attorney? I was hoping to get some clarity on that today. Wish Rosenthal would make a statement.