Kyron's doctors appointment

[SmoothOperator]

I'm sorry, Smooth. I had posted that they were discussed in the school responsibility thread. I thought you would look there for that discussion, and see where gliving had quoted them, which began the discussion.

The first is the signed note I mentioned, and the second is the signed check out I mentioned when the student is checked out at the office.




The pdf file was at the link at the time of the discussion, but is no longer on the net, but other policies in effect at that time are also quoted in that same thread.

Thanks much, BeanE....
I knew if anyone knew the source of the info it'd be you, was just waiting patiently for ya to come back online..

And everyone knows how well known I am for my patience...NOT..lol

 

[txsvicki]

From the e-mail she wrote: “I said I was going to look at other exhibits - how do you mess that up? His coat and backpack were still at school. I left the school at 9 and he was seen with a man ‘chaperone’ and 2 girls after I left. There were no men on the chaperone list. That and it was highly chaotic - had to been 300 people running around - no coordination ...” http://www.examiner.com/amber-alert...e-said-kyron-acted-strange-before-he-vanished

BBM.
So, she heard that from someone, or she thinks she heard it or she's making it up. It'd be helpful to know which. I don't why the font is staying italicized!! I can't fix it.

It's odd that Terri would say " I'm going to look at other exhibits" instead of "we're" going to....How could it have been that chaotic and so many people running around if she walked Kryon to the end of his hall and no one saw them. Terri must claim to have heard about a male chaperone. She'd probably know and be able to identify the other kids if she'd seen it herself.

 

[Donjeta]

I don't know, Steadfast. It just occurred to me that if the teacher and/or school was so sure Terri had taken him for a doctor's appt, that it was awfully strange for LE to sink all that money and effort into searching the school and grounds. It tells me the teacher/school were unable to convince MCSO, the FBI, and all those other 20 agencies that Terri had taken Kyron out of the school. It's a curious thing, and it's too late, and I'm too tired to think of what it may mean.

I just thought I'd toss it out there so I wouldn't be the only one to fall asleep tonight noodling about it.

IMO, it makes sense for LE to search the school and its surroundings anyway whether or not the teacher was sure of what Terri had said because neither Terri nor a doctor could produce Kyron. Maybe the teacher was mistaken or lied to cover up for something or Terri lied to cover up for something or something else happened, the fact remains that the school was the last place anybody admitted seeing him and therefore it was the logical starting place for the searches. LE believing the teacher saying Terri said she took Kyron out for a doctor's appointment wouldn't be inconsistent with the searches at the school and the forests because he never got to a doctor's appointment even if he had one. Something could have happened between Terri and Kyron on the way to the school parking lot etc. Terri could have dumped him in the school basement or the forests nearby just as well as a stranger.

I think we can't tell whether or not there was talk about a doctor's appointment from the fact that they searched the school. They would, if they have a child go missing who was last seen at the school. The only thing we can tell from it, IMO is that LE were following normal procedure and being thorough and that there was no evidence to say Kyron actually went to a doctor's appointment.

 

[LillyRush]

Well, overall, I definitely think the doctor's appointment is one of the most confusing things about this case. You (general "you") could say that Terri created the confusion so that the teacher would not wonder where he was and alert anyone. But, at the same time, there is a huge question over whether the teacher would have even alerted anyone based on the procedures that were in place. Plus, why would Terri want to create confusion involving a scenario where the teacher believed Kyron had left with her? Wouldn't that just point the finger right back at her, when normally she (if guilty) would be trying to have people think Kyron was not with her?

Those are the questions that keep popping up for me whenever I try to plug in this scenario that she may have created deliborate confusion regarding the doctor appt. Also, as I said earlier, the way the school spokesperson worded his statement makes me think that even they did not want to publically mention the doctor's appointment without being absolutely certain the teacher heard that and it sounds like she was not so certain herself.

 

[Morag]

Here's a link to the handbook.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5314877&postcount=197"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - How to get yourself & a child out of the school and into a vehicle?[/ame]

 

[Calliope]

Above BBM.. TIA to anyone who has the linky for this above bolded policy of Skylines... Again TIA

I posted the skyline student manual in the reference thread some time ago. I don't recall the specifics, but there was an entire page on security and absenteeism.

 

[Calliope]

Here's a link to the handbook.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - How to get yourself & a child out of the school and into a vehicle?

even better lol

That's the one I posted. If it's not showing up now, that's no doubt because of the changes made this year. glad to see someone saved the file.

 

[Calliope]

Above BBM.. TIA to anyone who has the linky for this above bolded policy of Skylines... Again TIA

Early Release

[#1]Students leaving school prior to dismissal time need a signed note stating the time and purpose. For security purposes, students will come to the office where they will be released to the parent/adult. [#2]Parents must sign their student out from the office. We ask that parents do not go directly to the classroom to pick up their child.

Students can be released to individuals on the District’s signed registration card only. A written note is required if a person other than the child’s parents are picking up a student from school. Photo identification will be required.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Early Release

[#1]Students leaving school prior to dismissal time need a signed note stating the time and purpose. For security purposes, students will come to the office where they will be released to the parent/adult. [#2]Parents must sign their student out from the office. We ask that parents do not go directly to the classroom to pick up their child.

Students can be released to individuals on the District’s signed registration card only. A written note is required if a person other than the child’s parents are picking up a student from school. Photo identification will be required.

Whatever the policy was at that time, it seems to me that Kyron was never "signed in" on the teacher's roll, therefore he did not need to be signed out.

I can walk with one of my children into their schools and walk back out again without signing them in or out as long as they never go to class. And from what the teacher says, Kyron was ever in class that day.

 

[Calliope]

Whatever the policy was at that time, it seems to me that Kyron was never "signed in" on the teacher's roll, therefore he did not need to be signed out.

I can walk with one of my children into their schools and walk back out again without signing them in or out as long as they never go to class. And from what the teacher says, Kyron was ever in class that day.

And from what Terri says (along with statements by at least two other students and possibly an adult volunteer), he was present inside the school when that final bell rang at 8:45. I've seen nothing from anyone (LE, the school, Terri, OR the parents) that indicates Kyron left the building before the start of school. If the teacher didn't take roll until 9:45-10 am, after the children had toured the exhibits, IMO that does NOT let the school or the teacher off the hook. Students were expected to be in class at 8:45 to get into groups and start their tours. School started when that final bell rang.

 

[BeanE]

Whatever the policy was at that time, it seems to me that Kyron was never "signed in" on the teacher's roll, therefore he did not need to be signed out.

I can walk with one of my children into their schools and walk back out again without signing them in or out as long as they never go to class. And from what the teacher says, Kyron was ever in class that day.

Hi ThoughtFox. What about the children who arrived on buses at around 8:30 that day, without parents. Let's assume roll wasn't taken in any classes that day until 10. That leaves a time period of an hour and a half.

Let's say one of those children who arrived on a bus had a doctor's appointment that day, and needed to be picked up at about 9:15. Would they not need to be signed out? Would a parent (or nanny or aunt) have been able to simply locate the child on their tour and remove them from the school?

It's the children who arrived on buses (or walked to school or were simply dropped off etc) that I have a hard time resolving if no check out was necessary.

 

[SurfieTX]

I'm going to give Terri the benefit of the doubt and assume that someone told her that Ms. Porter thought she was taking Kyron with Kitty to the doctor (I'm still not sure which kid would have had the appointment based on that statement, but I guess it doesn't matter).

Where would Ms. Porter have gotten that impression? Clearly, she assumed BOTH kids were going to the doctor's office, not just Kyron.

Secondly, when did Terri speak to Ms. Porter to tell her she was going to look at exhibits? Terri could not have done that when she waved Kyron goodbye from down the hallway. Plus, as was mentioned in previous articles/case reviews, Kyron's teachers said he never checked in to class at all, all day. Therefore, he never was a part of any group touring the exhibits with his class.

So, Terri must have spoken to Ms. Porter when she and Kyron were touring after they took his backpack/jacket into class, and snapped the picture in front of the project.

Ms. Porter sees Kyron, Terri and ?baby K?, they speak at some point about something to and including Terri stating that she is going to be looking at more exhibits. Ms. Porter goes back to her class, Kyron never checks in, and Ms. Porter assumes he went with Terri and baby K to an appointment.

Perhaps the paperwork was on her desk, she glanced at it, and made that assumption? One has to remember that Terri was a regular volunteer at the school. Ms. Porter would understandingly assume that Terri would have checked him out as they were leaving as per protocol. She trusted Terri as a fellow educator and as a parent. Therefore, she would understandingly not cross-reference his absence with the front office.

As another astute poster here has pointed out (Steadfast, I think), the conversation between Ms. Porter and Terri is going to be forever etched in Ms. Porter's mind. It would be really interesting to hear Ms. Porter's testimony and recollection of that day.

 

[Etilema]

Hi ThoughtFox. What about the children who arrived on buses at around 8:30 that day, without parents. Let's assume roll wasn't taken in any classes that day until 10. That leaves a time period of an hour and a half.

Let's say one of those children who arrived on a bus had a doctor's appointment that day, and needed to be picked up at about 9:15. Would they not need to be signed out? Would a parent (or nanny or aunt) have been able to simply locate the child on their tour and remove them from the school?

It's the children who arrived on buses (or walked to school or were simply dropped off etc) that I have a hard time resolving if no check out was necessary.

But this case is different because he never left the custody of his parent. He was seen with his stepmother in the morning, and was never turned over to the school's responsibility.

JMO

 

[debs]

But this case is different because he never left the custody of his parent. He was seen with his stepmother in the morning, and was never turned over to the school's responsibility.

JMO

I just dropped off Princess PeePee at school. I watched her walk onto school property and came home. School has not yet started but she is on school property and I reasonably (though not as blithely innocent anymore) consider her in the custodial care of those at the school. Should I have walked her down to the hallway toward her classroom, and because it's always a good thing to build a child's independence, determine to watch her walk down the hall by herself without me tagging along, watching her go, turn and wave, I would still consider her on school property and in their care. The minute I turn to go back the way I came, I'm also making an assumption that I've turned over that care to the school to keep her safe. If there is a predator in that school prior to me making this blithe decision to let her be a little independent, I do blame the school should something befall her, even if I've just left. Until roll is taken is not the time when the custodial care of the school takes place. It is that moment as parents and grandparents when we turn the custodial care over, even if it is never written down or spoken about. It's that moment when we drop them off at school and tell them to have a good day, and watch them wave goodbye to us.

We all have done it.

 

[Nana46]

But this case is different because he never left the custody of his parent. He was seen with his stepmother in the morning, and was never turned over to the school's responsibility.

JMO

I think I agree somewhat.....confusing yes,lol. He was/never turned over to their responsibility ONLY if SM did not take him...if he disappeared in any other way then maybe yes school was responsible....but if she took him I can't see how they are responsible for what she (possibly) did....IMO
I am so very sick of this case because he is gone and nobody can find him:furious:If I am this angry just imagine how DY and KH feel. Crapola.

 

[Aedrys]

It's odd that Terri would say " I'm going to look at other exhibits" instead of "we're" going to....How could it have been that chaotic and so many people running around if she walked Kryon to the end of his hall and no one saw them. Terri must claim to have heard about a male chaperone. She'd probably know and be able to identify the other kids if she'd seen it herself.

Yep, and the only time we heard about this male chaperone and two girls was in her email to a friend. It seems like it just dropped into thin air like Kyron after that. I'm guessing the friend didn't have a good reaction to it, or Terri realized how stupid it would be to claim that when it can be verified by talking to all families there and every little girl that was there. The police could rapidly figure out that there was no mystery chaperone not on the chaperone list. It was a lie that didn't work out. And of course she used third person so that it was someone else's fault and not her own that it came up in the first place. I don't think anyone else told her about this. I think she made it up so that she could give LE some mysterious man who might be a perv to look at instead of her. When it didn't wash with the friend, she knew it wouldn't be good to tell to LE. So she dropped it.

 

[Aedrys]

I think I agree somewhat.....confusing yes,lol. He was/never turned over to their responsibility ONLY if SM did not take him...if he disappeared in any other way then maybe yes school was responsible....but if she took him I can't see how they are responsible for what she (possibly) did....IMO
I am so very sick of this case because he is gone and nobody can find him:furious:If I am this angry just imagine how DY and KH feel. Crapola.

ITA. And we have no clue if she ever turned over responsibility to the school. Just because she said she did doesn't mean she did. Roll wasn't taken until much later, so we have no idea if he was there or not, which is very, very frustrating. It's just impossible, with what we know, to say who had responsiblity of him that morning. Now, the school did have a responsibility to report him absent, but that doesn't mean that they definitely knew he was there and left with TMH or someone else. He never made it to class. The school can't say where he was at all that morning besides touring exhibits before class even started.

 

[jadejazzkayla]

But this case is different because he never left the custody of his parent. He was seen with his stepmother in the morning, and was never turned over to the school's responsibility.

JMO

as bean has said, many students were brought to school on buses or they walked or they were driven to school and let out at the student drop off area.

then there were many parents or guardians who accompanied their student inside the school.

I haven't seen a discussion on what the school's policy is or what the proper procedure is for these people to turn their child over to the school's responsibility.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Hi ThoughtFox. What about the children who arrived on buses at around 8:30 that day, without parents. Let's assume roll wasn't taken in any classes that day until 10. That leaves a time period of an hour and a half.

Let's say one of those children who arrived on a bus had a doctor's appointment that day, and needed to be picked up at about 9:15. Would they not need to be signed out? Would a parent (or nanny or aunt) have been able to simply locate the child on their tour and remove them from the school?

It's the children who arrived on buses (or walked to school or were simply dropped off etc) that I have a hard time resolving if no check out was necessary.

Arriving on the bus is a totally different situation, it seems to me. Of course it is possible that a child could arrive on a bus and their parent might arrive separately and also just walk out with them, given the circumstances, so that's actually proof that Terri could have walked back out with Kyron.

The school wasn't on a regular schedule that day. Terri knew that--all the parents knew it.

The teacher says Terri told her about an appointment Kyron had that day. Any parent might have done the same - it doesn't rule out that Kyron left the school with his step-mother.

I personally feel the school is responsible for some of this confusion - but I think someone took advantage of a lax system that day.

 

[debs]

The school uses the words "The teacher THOUGHT he went with his step mother..." I'm very interested in what Ms Porter THOUGHT as well. Because she, and the attendance clerk didn't THINK to follow up and just make sure Kyron was where they THOUGHT he should be.