LA LA - Belle Chasse, WhtMale 16-17, UP88342, hanged, suicide note, Feb'75

[Marilynilpa]

I am in Canada can't open blog!!!!!!

It will be good if any of people, cops who find young man can remember how he looks like. I am sure that picture like that can't be forgotten and compare it with Perry. but my impression is that young man who kill him self wasn't Parry. He was thoughtful, he carefully wrote notes, he afraid what he'll become, cause he expected his sickness will progress.....

Perry was impulsive, making decisions in moment......

Thanks and sorry if I am wrong.....
Whole story breaks my heart..

Sorry about the link, that blog has already been removed. I can't recall exactly what it said, but it was from a Christian website and talked about how to use the suicide as a positive example. I wish I could remember more about it, because it was nicely worded.

I agree with you that this John Doe is probably not Perry. You made a good point - Perry appears to be impulsive, and not the kind to write a four page suicide note before hanging himself. I also doubt if he was as philosophical was John Doe.

 

[Ambercat]

pjclover, thanks for your post. You brought up some good ideas.

I have always wondered if the 16-17 age is accurate. The newspaper articles I've read say he "appeared" to be 16-17 years old. I don't know how long he had been hanging before he was found or what condition his face was in, but I doubt he looked much like he did when he was alive. I think he could have been older, maybe early 20's.

I have a missing person in mind who may be this young man. He was 23 years old when his family last saw him. It is unknown if he is missing willingly or if he was a victim of homicide. He was spending time alone living off the land, and may well have decided to hitchhike cross country. There are other factors that lead me to think he could be this John Doe, but without the police file and/or the burial location of John Doe, there is absolutely no way to make a connection.

Regarding age, if I had a son in his 20's who was missing and I read about the suicide of a 16-17 year old unidentified boy, I'd look into it in spite of the age difference, especially if the description was similar.

On the other hand, if I read the story and that same 20-something son was supposedly hitchhiking across country (remember this is 1975, such things were common!), I'd have no reason to connect the story to him.

I'm sorry, I know that isn't worded that well. I hope I got my point across!

Your suggestion that the parents of John Doe knew or suspected he was their son, but decided to leave the matter alone, is one I hadn't thought about. Maybe they would do this to honor his wishes, or maybe they didn't want the notoriety (shame?) associated with their son's suicide. It's hard to imagine a parent not claiming their child under any circumstances, but everyone is different in their reactions.

I think I know who you mean, but his height is way less than 6' unless it was misreported in the missing persons report (which it really could have been). I have read one LA Times article where his dad was interviewed and I honestly don't think it occurred to him (or if he did he didn't let on because, as of 1996, he was still looking for his son). That being said, if the height estimate is incorrect, I thought of him, too. I searched on NamUs and there were a few young men that I considered, yet either their age, height, and/or eye color were off. That is a good point about how long he was there and it would be really good to know.

 

[bflocket]

I, personally, don't understand why so many on here are questioning his true age. Though I wouldn't be born for a few years at the time he died, I strongly identify with this young man. That is why I believe that he was gay AND had some sort of mental illness (the two are far from being mutually exclusive).
I was "blessed" by being a very smart gay-boy. I live in rural Kentucky and always have and probably always will. Growing up being smart, I never felt like I fit in around here. My parents have an MD and a PhD. I felt like a huge geek because I was smart. I wished my parents farmed or worked on cars instead of being "nerds." When I was younger, I knew there was something profoundly "wrong" with me (even well before sexuality comes into play). I didn't know what it was, and still don't for that matter (a little OCD, a ton of depression/anxiety and no self-confidence whatsoever). I don't know if I am still smart, as I had a really bad head injury (car accident) at 18 which slowed me down considerably.
Sorry for that rant about myself. But it is the reason I feel that he was gay and/or was dealing with some kind of mental illness. It is my lack of self-confidence (not any kind of "strength") that I'm not the same boat as him.
Again, unless there was something in the autopsy suggesting otherwise, there is no reason someone in their mid-late teens could be as eloquent as he was in the note.
And another thing... The South has its blessings and it's curses. Where I live there are actually quite a few Catholics, but many more Southern Baptists (and other prodestants). Many (not exaggerating) families will disown, banish or ignore their gay kids. How else could you explain my state (along with several others) amending their constitution to try and ban "gayness" (marriage, unions, insurance coverage, etc)?

 

[Marilynilpa]

I, personally, don't understand why so many on here are questioning his true age. Though I wouldn't be born for a few years at the time he died, I strongly identify with this young man. That is why I believe that he was gay AND had some sort of mental illness (the two are far from being mutually exclusive).
I was "blessed" by being a very smart gay-boy. I live in rural Kentucky and always have and probably always will. Growing up being smart, I never felt like I fit in around here. My parents have an MD and a PhD. I felt like a huge geek because I was smart. I wished my parents farmed or worked on cars instead of being "nerds." When I was younger, I knew there was something profoundly "wrong" with me (even well before sexuality comes into play). I didn't know what it was, and still don't for that matter (a little OCD, a ton of depression/anxiety and no self-confidence whatsoever). I don't know if I am still smart, as I had a really bad head injury (car accident) at 18 which slowed me down considerably.
Sorry for that rant about myself. But it is the reason I feel that he was gay and/or was dealing with some kind of mental illness. It is my lack of self-confidence (not any kind of "strength") that I'm not the same boat as him.
Again, unless there was something in the autopsy suggesting otherwise, there is no reason someone in their mid-late teens could be as eloquent as he was in the note.
And another thing... The South has its blessings and it's curses. Where I live there are actually quite a few Catholics, but many more Southern Baptists (and other prodestants). Many (not exaggerating) families will disown, banish or ignore their gay kids. How else could you explain my state (along with several others) amending their constitution to try and ban "gayness" (marriage, unions, insurance coverage, etc)?

I agree that this John Doe may have been gay, in fact it's been discussed for a while on this thread. And I know about the South and Southern Baptists - they are strong in Texas, where I am originally from. Not exactly a forgiving lot when it comes to "differences" of any kind.

LE just estimated the age, and decided John Doe appeared to be 16-17. But for those of us to try to match missing persons to unidentified persons, the age can make a huge difference when conducting searches. That's why I'm trying to emphasize that we shouldn't be too hung up on him being 16-17 when he could have been slightly older.

And while I agree there's no reason a 16-17 year old couldn't have written such an eloquent suicide note, I don't believe many of them would have the knowledge to quote Emile Durkheim and generally be so philosophical.

Obviously this is speculation on my part only.

 

[bflocket]

I know that the age of does can't be estimated to a "t." I was just noting that several of the posters questioning his age seemed to be doing it based on "level of education" reasons. Not ALL of the posts suggesting such.
Just pointing out that "kids" (especially gay kids) can be a lot smarter than they're given credit for. In other words, you don't know about their intelligence because there isn't anything out there to verify it (writings, works of art, etc) at the time.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I know that the age of does can't be estimated to a "t." I was just noting that several of the posters questioning his age seemed to be doing it based on "level of education" reasons. Not ALL of the posts suggesting such.
Just pointing out that "kids" (especially gay kids) can be a lot smarter than they're given credit for. In other words, you don't know about their intelligence because there isn't anything out there to verify it (writings, works of art, etc) at the time.

You're right about some posts questioning the age of this young man because of his philosophical statements. I'm one of those posters, actually.

While kids can be smarter than we give them credit for, I just found his reference to Durkheim a little unusual because I don't believe most 16-17 year olds are exposed to him and/or his writings. I figured it might have been someone in their late teens, early twenties who might have studied Durkheim in college.

However, this young man may have studied Durkheim on his own. If he was gay, as some of us speculate, he may have turned to all kinds of philosophers, sociologists, etc. in an attempt to understand himself.

I suppose one reason I've been so interested in this John Doe is that he and I were about the same age at the time he killed himself. He has missed out on so much in this world, things I've experienced but he never will.

It's simply tragic that he continues to be unknown to us except through the final actions of his life.

 

[pjclover]

I, personally, don't understand why so many on here are questioning his true age.

Respectfully snipped.

I can't speak for other posters, but there are several reasons why I believe that the Doe was older than 16-17.

The first is that although I agree that there are many teens who are intelligent and introspective, I teach high school (English and History) and have never come across a 16 year old who quoted Durkheim and wrote with such an eloquent sense of self. That's not to say that there aren't teens with the capability to do so, but in cases like this where we know next to nothing and we're starting from scratch, I try to look at what the most likely scenario is.

My second reason is that there appears to have been a significant attempt to match this Doe up with missing persons. 300 families attempted to identify the Doe, which tells me that LE was trying to find a match from people reported missing. If it wasn't accomplished then, and people working since then haven't matched it with anyone missing, there must be a reason.

The reason could be because the Doe was never reported because they were a legal adult who traveled or lived a transient sort of lifestyle. Even in 1975 it would have been rare for a 16 year old to be given that sort of autonomy - the kind where no one would report them missing. A young adult is a different story. In addition, a difference in age could explain why this Doe hasn't been matched up with anyone missing.

Obviously this is only one theory. He very well could have been 16 or 17. Again, in cases where so little is known, it never hurts to explore a wide breadth of possibilities.

 

[fearless]

Just checking for some discovery!

 

[Old Gray Mare]

Bump - anything new on this haunting case?

 

[dogperson]

pjclover, thanks for your post. You brought up some good ideas.

I have always wondered if the 16-17 age is accurate. The newspaper articles I've read say he "appeared" to be 16-17 years old. I don't know how long he had been hanging before he was found or what condition his face was in, but I doubt he looked much like he did when he was alive. I think he could have been older, maybe early 20's.

I have a missing person in mind who may be this young man. He was 23 years old when his family last saw him. It is unknown if he is missing willingly or if he was a victim of homicide. He was spending time alone living off the land, and may well have decided to hitchhike cross country. There are other factors that lead me to think he could be this John Doe, but without the police file and/or the burial location of John Doe, there is absolutely no way to make a connection.

Regarding age, if I had a son in his 20's who was missing and I read about the suicide of a 16-17 year old unidentified boy, I'd look into it in spite of the age difference, especially if the description was similar.

On the other hand, if I read the story and that same 20-something son was supposedly hitchhiking across country (remember this is 1975, such things were common!), I'd have no reason to connect the story to him.

I'm sorry, I know that isn't worded that well. I hope I got my point across!

Your suggestion that the parents of John Doe knew or suspected he was their son, but decided to leave the matter alone, is one I hadn't thought about. Maybe they would do this to honor his wishes, or maybe they didn't want the notoriety (shame?) associated with their son's suicide. It's hard to imagine a parent not claiming their child under any circumstances, but everyone is different in their reactions.

I know which young man you are referring to, and I agree it's possible he decided to drop out of society and travel the country. He seems to have been anti-establishment as a lot of young people were in the 70s. It appears as though LE thinks it likely he was a victim of Randy Kraft since he disappeared from a known "hunting ground" along a certain highway Kraft was known to troll. I think maybe the young man you are referring to came out of the woods and was walking to the nearest store with a payphone to call for his dad to pick him up, then Kraft came along and offered him a ride.

 

[Marilynilpa]

In the wake of the horrible murders in Newtown, CT, I've been reading up a little on Asperger's Syndrome (AS).

It dawned on me that, perhaps, our unidentified suicide victim may have suffered from AS. Here is one snippet from his suicide note:

"I was born with a definite pervasive melancholy . . .what frustrated me most in the last year was that I had built no ties to family or friends. There was nothing of lasting worth and value. I led a detached existence and I was a parody of a person - literally and figuratively. I didn't tell jokes - I was a joke".

That might indicate he had AS - social awkwardness and an inability to connect with people.

Also, sometimes people with AS become obsessed over something. Perhaps this John Doe was obsessed over finding out why he was "different". That might explain his interest in the writings of Emile Durkheim, a philosopher and psychologist.

People with AS often have high intelligence, which could explain how someone so young (16 or 17 years old) was able to write such a philosophical suicide note.

I'd be interested in reading your comments on this topic.

 

[belfastgirl73]

In the wake of the horrible murders in Newtown, CT, I've been reading up a little on Asperger's Syndrome (AS).

It dawned on me that, perhaps, our unidentified suicide victim may have suffered from AS. Here is one snippet from his suicide note:

"I was born with a definite pervasive melancholy . . .what frustrated me most in the last year was that I had built no ties to family or friends. There was nothing of lasting worth and value. I led a detached existence and I was a parody of a person - literally and figuratively. I didn't tell jokes - I was a joke".

That might indicate he had AS - social awkwardness and an inability to connect with people.

Also, sometimes people with AS become obsessed over something. Perhaps this John Doe was obsessed over finding out why he was "different". That might explain his interest in the writings of Emile Durkheim, a philosopher and psychologist.

People with AS often have high intelligence, which could explain how someone so young (16 or 17 years old) was able to write such a philosophical suicide note.

I'd be interested in reading your comments on this topic.

My nephew (19) has Asbergers and yes, he does find it difficult to connect with people. He says it is because he really doesn't quite understand "feelings"! He is very smart, very handsome and very kind and gentle, but upon meeting and talking to him you would know almost immediately he is a little "different". He does seem to have deeper thoughts and question things a lot more than most people his age would and he can get very depressed because he knows and feels he is "different".

 

[Onaliv]

Was Norman Lamar Prater ever looked at a possible match? Missing from Dallas Texas the year prior.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Was Norman Lamar Prater ever looked at a possible match? Missing from Dallas Texas the year prior.

I don't know if he was specifically looked at. I do know that information about this suicide victim was circulated around the U.S. in an attempt to identify him, to no avail.

I'm from Dallas, Texas originally and I recall the name Norman Prater - I'll look up his info and see if he might be a match.

Thanks for posting your info. This unknown young man deserves his name back.

ETA: Here is a link to Norman Prater: http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/mpch/m...='M6/26/200611:17:14AM'&Person=Missing Person

 

[Ambercat]

Was Norman Lamar Prater ever looked at a possible match? Missing from Dallas Texas the year prior.

Unfortunately, Norman Prater has the same problem as Angelo “Nick” Gatti – [if the height given in missing persons reports is correct] they are both far under the height estimate of 6’. Norman is estimated to be about 5’8” tall and Angelo is estimated to be about 5’3”. I have always wondered if Norman could be Wilmington John Doe because he looks a lot like the PM photo that used to be on the LA county website (not so much like the reconstructions, though) and his height, weight, hair color, and timing seem to match. According to Daniel Machian (regarding John Doe Wilmington http://doenetwork.org/cases/1155umca.html, https://identifyus.org/en/cases/4465)–

I was contacted by Norman Prater’s mother in 2008 regarding this case. She was shown a facial photo of the decedent (1973-02574) and stated that the decedent was NOT her son, missing person Norman Prater.

I have sort of mixed feelings about the rule-out, in one sense, I would say that she is his mom so she would know then part of me says that I wish that he could be ruled out via dentals, DNA, or something that just to be absolutely certain. I wonder if she was one of the many family members who contacted Plaquemines Parish referred to in the newspaper articles?

I looked again at the young men who went missing prior the suicide victim in Belle Chasse being found. Narrowing it down to young white male fitting the description given by Marilynilpa, I wonder if Donald Siskar https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/14240/19, Derran Rogers https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/4614/18, and Michael Burnett https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/5895/3 have been looked into?

 

[marion]

In the wake of the horrible murders in Newtown, CT, I've been reading up a little on Asperger's Syndrome (AS).

It dawned on me that, perhaps, our unidentified suicide victim may have suffered from AS. Here is one snippet from his suicide note:

"I was born with a definite pervasive melancholy . . .what frustrated me most in the last year was that I had built no ties to family or friends. There was nothing of lasting worth and value. I led a detached existence and I was a parody of a person - literally and figuratively. I didn't tell jokes - I was a joke".

That might indicate he had AS - social awkwardness and an inability to connect with people.

Also, sometimes people with AS become obsessed over something. Perhaps this John Doe was obsessed over finding out why he was "different". That might explain his interest in the writings of Emile Durkheim, a philosopher and psychologist.

People with AS often have high intelligence, which could explain how someone so young (16 or 17 years old) was able to write such a philosophical suicide note.

I'd be interested in reading your comments on this topic.

This case makes me incredibly sad and I can only hope this man was eventually identified (or maybe not, as he wished). He reminds me so much of a friend who committed suicide a couple summers ago. It sounds exactly like something my friend would've written.

This friend struggled with mental illness and addiction. He often told people he was bipolar, although I'm not 100% sure if it was true or not. I do know that toward the end he was diagnosed with a touch of Aspberger's, although I honestly don't think anyone really knew what was wrong with him. A mutual friend says he was a sociopath. I can definitely see both.

He told me how he was ALWAYS different from the other kids at school, even as a small child, always the odd one. I can't remember exactly what the example was he used but it had something to do with the bathroom at school, like being the only kid to walk out of the bathroom at school with his pants down maybe. He "was the joke." Yet, he couldn't explain why he did it.

He was well liked but the few of us who knew him well, knew it was mostly a show and he HATED himself for it but he couldn't change it. He disappeared on several occasions for a few months at a time in the years before his death, worrying his parents to death, although when I read his mother's posts on his Facebook page now they absolutely break my heart and sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't be better for him to be missing than dead. Oddly enough, Belle Chasse is only an hour or so away from his home and I know that general area (the New Orleans area) was one of the places he disappeared to.

While I never saw him get extremely violent, I do think he was capable of it and I did see him get so angry at times I thought he was going to get violent.

He was incredibly intelligent. He was definitely NOT gay, although I do think he often felt guilty about certain sex acts/fantasies. He was 24 when he passed away and was 19 when I met him. His problems seemed to get worse the older he got, the more people he took advantage of and the more guilt he carried.

I truly believe that most mental illness can be dealt with through counseling, medication, etc. However, his death was inevitable. I was not surprised at all when I heard about it. He came from a well-to-do family and his parents sent him to some of the best doctors/institutions in the country but nothing helped, even though i think he would've done just about anything to make the pain go away and I guess he ultimately did. I just don't think this was a case of someone not wanting to realize he had a problem and deal with it. He KNEW very well he had some problems and tried to work them out, but there was no escaping it. There was no hope and as much as I hate to say it, I find solace in the fact that he's no longer tormented by the demons in his head.

I swear he could've written just about every word in the note, except for maybe the Durkeim stuff although I'm sure he knew who he was. I tend to see the UID in this case as being a little older too.

 

[marion]

I will also say this about my friend. He never felt like he belonged here and was actually thousands of miles away living in another state in the northwest when he passed away. I don't want to give out too much detail because his case is so unique that it would be somewhat easy to figure out if anyone is local. There were a couple of places in the country he always talked about moving too. Both of them are rather remote and serene.

I have to wonder if this wasn't somewhat the case with the UID.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I'm bumping this up in hopes someone might read this and come up with some new ideas.

I think I've done everything I can to identify this young man, but I still hold out hope that some day someone will have just the right piece of info that make everything fall into place.

 

[Ambercat]

I know that I made a big deal about the height of the UID not matching up, but recently, I noticed missing person Joseph Spears who went missing from Gulfport, MS in 1973 and wonder if he could be the unidentified young man?

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/20957/175
Is Gulfport far from Belle Chasse?

 

[joeytes]

Is there a link to this UID?

I do not see it in NAMUS or in the Doe Network.