LA - Officer fatally shoots Alton Sterling outside store, Baton Rouge, 2016

[LietKynes]

Baton Rouge officer fatally shoots man outside store, sparking protests

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/head...hoots-man-outside-store-sparking-protests.ece

BATON ROUGE -- A Louisiana police officer shot and killed a man following a confrontation outside a Baton Rouge convenience store, authorities said.

An autopsy shows Alton Sterling, 37, of Baton Rouge, died Tuesday of multiple gunshot wounds to the chest and back, said East Baton Rouge Parish Coroner Dr. William Clark.

Officers responded to the store about 12:35 a.m. Tuesday after an anonymous caller indicated a man selling music CDs and wearing a red shirt threatened him with a gun, said Cpl. L'Jean McKneely.

SABBM

Since the shooting happened after AS was lying on his back; I'm assuming all shots were to the chest ?
MOO

 

[drjones]

I have headphones on and what I hear at 0.33 is 'He's got a gun,...gun'

http://abcnews.go.com/US/video-emerges-deadly-baton-rouge-police-shooting/story?id=40385136

Nothing about going for a gun or reaching for a gun.

ETA You can see officers (after the shooting) reaching into the pant pocket of AS to remove weapon.

im not sure how you are missing it, it is plain as day to me.

he says "hes got a gun, gun", they both draw their weapons, the other cop (i believe) tells him "you f'n move bro i swear to god", the first cop says "he's going for the gun", shots are fired.

 

[drjones]

SABBM

Since the shooting happened after AS was lying on his back; I'm assuming all shots were to the chest ?
MOO

"after the first shots we lost sight of what happens on both videos, but one officer again yells "get on the ground" and then there are more shots.

it is possible Sterling began to sit up and in doing so exposed his back to the officer we see on the ground when the camera is back on them."

 

[kimlynn]

Did both officers fire their guns?

An article on CNN said one officer fired the shots.The officer that fired the shots hasn't been named.
IMO it was the partner of the one yelling about the gun. IMO

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

RSBM

From the video at www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016...a-gun-when-baton-rogue-police-killed-him.html ; AS was lying on his back --the news reports that he was shot in the back (implying he was running away and thus no threat to anyone) were incorrect.
The media needs to get its' facts lined up before reporting. Somewhat irritating.
:moo:

It was the coroner that said AS was shot multiple times in the chest and back.

http://www.nbc12.com/story/32371223...imes-to-chest-back-2-officers-placed-on-leave

 

[al66pine]

snipping from katydid23 post: ...."But we don't know if he tried to retrieve it or not"

UBMSure we do - a number of citizens have said the shooting victim did not try to retrieve it. See the links so far.
Let's respect WS and get what is written correct, discuss that and use links in our 'fact reporting'? TOS.

"... said the shooting victim did not try to retrieve it." Who said that? Link & quote pls.

I could say 'AS did not try to retrieve the gun' and guess some others on W/S could say the same.
Or I could say 'I did not see AS trying to retrieve the gun' as that is true: being several states away from LA, I did not see him trying to it.
Or I could say 'I did not see vid w AS trying to retrieve gun' as that is also true.

Have we heard (and seen) all the statements from all the witnesses interviewed by LE & MSM? Doubtful imo.
There may be 1, 2, 3, or 10 ppl who claim to be eyewitnesses to the events, who claim AS did not try to retrieve gun.
Did they all have a clear line of view to both of AS's hands? IDK. Maybe so, maybe not.
{{ETA: There may be 1, 2, 3, or 10 ppl who claim to be eyewitnesses to the events, who claim AS did try to retrieve gun. IDK. Maybe or not.}}
Awaiting further info before 'taking a side.'

imo.


____________________________________________________________________________________
Hairsplitting alert:
"... citizens have said the shooting victim did not try to retrieve it." Which citizens said that? Link & quote pls.
Has anyone seen proof that these ppl are US citizens, by birth or naturalization? Seen their US passports?
Not sarc, not snark. The word 'citizens' has meaning and it is not interchangeable w persons or people.
:happydance:Taking off my grouchy (hair-splitting) clothes for the evening, :happydance:donning a comfortable outfit. :happydance:

 

[kimlynn]

im not sure how you are missing it, it is plain as day to me.

he says "hes got a gun, gun", they both draw their weapons, the other cop (i believe) tells him "you f'n move bro i swear to god", the first cop says "he's going for the gun", shots are fired.

Might be the power of suggestion (lol) but I hear it now after listening three more times. It is kind of mixed in with other noise with all that was going on.
Dam* shame that this happened no matter how you view it. IMO

 

[scmom]

Wonder when/if the rest of the video will be released?

Baton Rouge police say they have dash-cam video, body-cam video and store surveillance video of the police shooting death of a black man outside a convenience store.

http://www.wbrz.com/news/new-video-angle-discovered-in-alton-sterling-shooting

 

[Betty P]

new video. warning - this one is more graphic than the other one.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...a-gun-when-baton-rogue-police-killed-him.html

Just wanted to point out that in the linked article, the store owner states the victim was a friend of his, that he didn't brandish a gun and that there was no altercation until the cops began tasering him. Perhaps if the police had remained calm and discussed their concerns, things wouldn't have escalated. Perhaps they should have interviewed the store owner before escalating the situation.

Officers Blane Salamoni and Howie Lake were reportedly responding to a 911 call about a man threatening someone with a gun before they arrived, but Muflahti said no one was waving a gun, certainly not Sterling.

“He didn’t even tell me about anything, he usually tells me,” Muflahi said. “He’s not that type of person. It would have been a very big problem to pull his gun out.”

Muflahti walked out the front door when he saw the officers talking to Sterling and said there was no “altercation,” as police claimed, until the cops tasered and tackled Sterling. That’s when Muflahti took out his phone and started recording.

The store owner was there and witnessed everything. He knew the victim, was friends with him.

ETA: What I would like to know is why they felt they needed to wrestle with the victim. If they arrived and the victim was there peacefully doing business, not brandishing a gun, what was the problem? Talk to the store owner, see what he says. Maybe conclude the person who called 911 was a disgruntled customer or someone trying to rob the victim.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I can never understand why, after one bullet, LE can't just step back. A bullet must hurt so find it impossible to believe the person that has been shot will be inclined to reach for a gun without the officer(s) noticing and being able to react accordingly.

I struggle with this one too. Don't get me wrong, I understand why the law is the way it is, and I know that in many, many cases suspects are in fact merely injured and those of course do not become the high-profile cases. I also get that an officer at a distance firing at a moving target who misses on the first shot may be dead if he hesitates before firing the second. I get that in a close-quarters struggle the suspect may go for the officer's gun, and that puts the officer in danger, and that all of these situations develop very, very rapidly. Still, I can't help but feel as you feel when I watch that video - that perhaps firing only one shot may have allowed them to avoid taking a life, and to calling an ambulance instead of a coroner. But I get to make that judgment watching it multiple times from the safety and comfort of my home, which I recognize is different from Mr. Sterling and the officers interacting with one another in real time.

 

[animlzrule]

Another deadly consequence of the militarization of our police force and their seeming inability to assess the appropriate threat level during a situation is that violent crime in the U.S. has been decreasing for decades now, and the majority of the people in the news who have been killed by police have been guilty of petty or misdemeanor crimes: traffic violation, selling cigarettes, selling CDs, disrespectful speech etc. In my town a burglar was shot and killed a few days ago because he was threatening a police officer with a pitchfork! You can't tell me that there were several other options the police officer had available before shooting. If nothing else, run back to your car! Call for back up! Apparently lethal force is a quick "go to" now. It baffles me that there is a segment of society that is reflexively resistant to holding bad police officers accountable for their actions. And why aren't the "good cops" acknowledging that there is a problem here???? They are stoking distrust and disrespect in these already fragile communities by sticking up for bad cops. As a law abiding white woman, I realize that I have very little chance of finding myself in a situation in which I am a victim of a fearful, poorly trained and poorly disciplined police officer. But I admit, I do look at them differently than I used to. I used to think police officers were methodical, professional, rational and worked the job with integrity. I have been wrong for many years for not realizing that many police officers are scared bullies with badges.

 

[Betty P]

I struggle with this one too. Don't get me wrong, I understand why the law is the way it is, and I know that in many, many cases suspects are in fact merely injured and those of course do not become the high-profile cases. I also get that an officer at a distance firing at a moving target who misses on the first shot may be dead if he hesitates before firing the second. I get that in a close-quarters struggle the suspect may go for the officer's gun, and that puts the officer in danger, and that all of these situations develop very, very rapidly. Still, I can't help but feel as you feel when I watch that video - that perhaps firing only one shot may have allowed them to avoid taking a life, and to calling an ambulance instead of a coroner. But I get to make that judgment watching it multiple times from the safety and comfort of my home, which I recognize is different from Mr. Sterling and the officers interacting with one another in real time.

The best thing to do is not get in a struggle if it's not necessary. Avoid the struggle, avoid the danger. Officers need to learn more about when to escalate a situation and when to ask a few questions, issue a citation if necessary, leave a business card and walk away. From what the store owner says, it doesn't sound as if LE needed to escalate the situation.

Here's a hypothetical:

Let's imagine Biff, a supporter of Donald Trump, decides to set up a campaign table in front of his friend's store. He's got some bumper stickers he's selling, some t-shirts and caps. He's carrying a gun in his pocket. He has some prior arrests from college - marijuana possession, ecstasy possession, disturbing the peace that time he and his buddies got loaded after the big football game. Maybe he's even got a sexual assault charge against him from that time he raped a girl at a frat house party.

Anyway, some guy walks by and says he doesn't like Donald Trump. Biff says to move along, get lost. Let's him know he's got a gun on him if this radical gives him any trouble. The crank goes off and calls 911 and tells the dispatcher he was threatened by a guy who brandished a gun. LE shows up. There's Biff, sitting at his Trump table in his polo shirt, with his gun in the pocket of his kahkis. He doesn't cause a fuss, doesn't raise his voice.

Would LE escalate the situation and start tazing Biff? Would they wrestle him to the ground and shoot him dead?

 

[Everyday Grace]

My thoughts, opinion, etc. on a fine point about the term "gunshot wound(s)".

Based upon my understanding and experience in reading autopsy reports, FWIW.

"Gunshot wound to the back" does not necessarily translate to "shot in the back."

Gunshot wound(s) to the back could include exit wound(s).

Was AS shot in the back?

Cannot be determined as fact that he was, or wasn't, based solely upon the statement issued by the coroner.

IMO. JMO. MOO.

 

[LemonCloud]

I don't understand. Maybe I missed something, and besides I'm not completely caught up, but if two cops are on top of him to restrain him, how did he have a free hand to reach for his gun? It looked like they had him pinned down pretty good.

Eta: I'm not saying it did/didn't happen. It just can't see it. And I could do with glasses!

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Just wanted to point out that in the linked article, the store owner states the victim was a friend of his, that he didn't brandish a gun and that there was no altercation until the cops began tasering him. Perhaps if the police had remained calm and discussed their concerns, things wouldn't have escalated. Perhaps they should have interviewed the store owner before escalating the situation.

snipped by me

My first concern was wondering about the call that was made and how specific the description was. My understanding is that the person who called LE described a man in a red shirt selling CDs outside of this certain store. That's pretty specific. So I do believe that the caller and the store owner are both talking about Mr. Sterling even if the caller didn't identify him by name.

Clearly the caller's account differs from the store owner's. This doesn't mean either one is being untruthful. This could have been something that happened very quickly, and even if the store owner was present in his store I doubt he spends his whole day starting at Mr. Sterling. It's also possible that the caller could have seen or heard something and interpreted it wrongly. (I say this because I'm not clear if the caller was the person allegedly threatened or if they merely witnessed a threat to someone else. I think if the caller felt threatened that is less likely to have been misinterpreted than if the caller merely witnessed an interaction between two other people.)

Of course, one of them could be being untruthful, but I won't assume that when so far there is nothing to support that. We don't really have enough information at this point to have any way of guessing, if in fact one of them was being untruthful, which one that would be.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

The best thing to do is not get in a struggle if it's not necessary. Avoid the struggle, avoid the danger. Officers need to learn more about when to escalate a situation and when to ask a few questions, issue a citation if necessary, leave a business card and walk away. From what the store owner says, it doesn't sound as if LE needed to escalate the situation.

Here's a hypothetical:

Let's imagine Biff, a supporter of Donald Trump, decides to set up a campaign table in front of his friend's store. He's got some bumper stickers he's selling, some t-shirts and caps. He's carrying a gun in his pocket. He has some prior arrests from college - marijuana possession, ecstasy possession, disturbing the peace that time he and his buddies got loaded after the big football game. Maybe he's even got a sexual assault charge against him from that time he raped a girl at a frat house party.

Anyway, some guy walks by and says he doesn't like Donald Trump. Biff says to move along, get lost. Let's him know he's got a gun on him if this radical gives him any trouble. The crank goes off and calls 911 and tells the dispatcher he was threatened by a guy who brandished a gun. LE shows up. There's Biff, sitting at his Trump table in his polo shirt, with his gun in the pocket of his kahkis. He doesn't cause a fuss, doesn't raise his voice.

Would LE escalate the situation and start tazing Biff? Would they wrestle him to the ground and shoot him dead?

I'm not clear - why would officers act differently in that situation based on the information you gave? Parts of that actually sound fairly similar to what occurred here, but there are things here we don't know as well. For all we know right now, the officers may very well have calmly walked up to him to initiate a discussion. Or at least for all I know. If I missed info to the contrary please feel free to point me in the right direction.

 

[Betty P]

Store owner being interviewed on CNN

He says the victim did not have his gun out, also says the victim was not trying to reach in his pocket for the gun.

Says it all escalated very quickly. By the time he came out of his store, LE was already throwing the victim on the hood of a car and on the ground.

Says the victim was confused and didn't know what was going on. Kept asking LE what do you want? what's going on?

Store owner says he recorded it on his cell phone then hid the phone so police wouldn't take it away. They did confiscate the video from his store camera

Reporter asked him if he was scared, worried about his safety. He said not really, he's protected by the truth and it will come out. He did seem a little scared, though.

 

[bluesneakers]

Issa Rae Starts Scholarship Fund For Alton Sterling’s Children

Actress Issa Rae has started a scholarship fund for the children of Alton Sterling, a 37-year-old black man who was shot and killed by police in Baton Rogue, Louisiana, early Tuesday morning.

[video=twitter;750748072095784961]https://twitter.com/IssaRae/status/750748072095784961[/video]

 

[MzOpinion8d]

What do you mean by 'assess' the situation? They were sent to detain and question this man. They gave direct orders, he would not comply. They assessed the situation, knew he was not going to follow their orders, so they had to physically restrain him. That is what they were sent to do.

I don't think bullets are typically used as restraint devices.

 

[bluesneakers]

The best thing to do is not get in a struggle if it's not necessary. Avoid the struggle, avoid the danger. Officers need to learn more about when to escalate a situation and when to ask a few questions, issue a citation if necessary, leave a business card and walk away. From what the store owner says, it doesn't sound as if LE needed to escalate the situation.

Here's a hypothetical:

Let's imagine Biff, a supporter of Donald Trump, decides to set up a campaign table in front of his friend's store. He's got some bumper stickers he's selling, some t-shirts and caps. He's carrying a gun in his pocket. He has some prior arrests from college - marijuana possession, ecstasy possession, disturbing the peace that time he and his buddies got loaded after the big football game. Maybe he's even got a sexual assault charge against him from that time he raped a girl at a frat house party.

Anyway, some guy walks by and says he doesn't like Donald Trump. Biff says to move along, get lost. Let's him know he's got a gun on him if this radical gives him any trouble. The crank goes off and calls 911 and tells the dispatcher he was threatened by a guy who brandished a gun. LE shows up. There's Biff, sitting at his Trump table in his polo shirt, with his gun in the pocket of his kahkis. He doesn't cause a fuss, doesn't raise his voice.

Would LE escalate the situation and start tazing Biff? Would they wrestle him to the ground and shoot him dead?

Hypothetically I think the encounter with Biff might look something like this:

Armed man shot, injured by San Diego police in Mission Bay

Or this:
Joseph Houseman, ‘Open Carry’ Advocate, Gets His Rifle Back After Tense Police Standoff

Maybe this:
Police: Man arrested after shooting BB gun toward officers

Or:
Texas man arrested after pointing gun at New Castle Police officers

Etc.