Laura Babcock: Dellen Millard & Mark Smich charged w/ Murder in the First Degree #2

[SnooperDuper]

Where is the compassion for the victims, though? If DM is wrongly accused, who is responsible for the deaths of LB, WM and TB?

Isn't it a travesty of justice then that no work is being done to find their killers?

Or have the killers been found, and processed by the justice system?

If DM is not the killer, why is he remaining silent? Does he not want justice for LB, WM and TB? Should he not talk and finger the true culprit so that this matter can come to an end as quickly as possible?

Doesn't DM care about the people in his life whose lives have been lost? Why does he not want justice for them?

 

[Arnie M]

Where is the compassion for the victims, though? If DM is wrongly accused, who is responsible for the deaths of LB, WM and TB?

Isn't it a travesty of justice then that no work is being done to find their killers?

Or have the killers been found, and processed by the justice system?

If DM is not the killer, why is he remaining silent? Does he not want justice for LB, WM and TB? Should he not talk and finger the true culprit so that this matter can come to an end as quickly as possible?

Doesn't DM care about the people in his life whose lives have been lost? Why does he not want justice for them?

Well said Snooper . Thank you.

 

[Tamarind]

Where is the compassion for the victims, though? If DM is wrongly accused, who is responsible for the deaths of LB, WM and TB?

I don't believe that I have read any posts here that have declared no compassion for any victims.

Isn't it a travesty of justice then that no work is being done to find their killers?

It would be an equal travesty to convict the wrong people. Travesty of justice come in many shapes and forms IMO. As with those who have been exonerated after years in jail, the real perpetrators are either still at large, have confessed or have been since found.

Or have the killers been found, and processed by the justice system?
If DM is not the killer, why is he remaining silent? Does he not want justice for LB, WM and TB? Should he not talk and finger the true culprit so that this matter can come to an end as quickly as possible?

Answers have been given to these questions before, I believe.

How would I know how he truly feels, I don't know him ! I do think he would care about his own father and about LB, thats my opinion. If he is not responsible for TB then I imagine he cares a great deal about what actually happened. Again JMO

Doesn't DM care about the people in his life whose lives have been lost? Why does he not want justice for them?

How do we know he doesn't want justice?

 

[SnooperDuper]

I don't believe that I have read any posts here that have declared no compassion for any victims.

It would be an equal travesty to convict the wrong people. Travesty of justice come in many shapes and forms IMO. As with those who have been exonerated after years in jail, the real perpetrators are either still at large, have confessed or have been since found.

Answers have been given to these questions before, I believe.

How would I know how he truly feels, I don't know him ! I do think he would care about his own father and about LB, thats my opinion. If he is not responsible for TB then I imagine he cares a great deal about what actually happened. Again JMO

How do we know he doesn't want justice?

Why should I believe in DM's integrity? Why should I believe that DM is not lying about his involvement? What do we know about DM's character that shows that he has any integrity at all?

 

[Tamarind]

Why should I believe in DM's integrity? Why should I believe that DM is not lying about his involvement? What do we know about DM's character that shows that he has any integrity at all?

Why should I not believe the accused s pleas?

A trial should help you understand a little more IMO. I know I am waiting to hear more.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Why should I not believe the accused s pleas?

A trial should help you understand a little more IMO. I know I am waiting to hear more.

Based on conviction rates, of course we should not believe the accused's pleas.

A trial will not tell me why DM killed, or why he lied about it.

 

[Tamarind]

Based on conviction rates, of course we should not believe the accused's pleas.

A trial will not tell me why DM killed, or why he lied about it.

We have no idea what the trial will reveal. People can believe whatever they like or whatever they feel makes sense to them... I know I do.

 

[SnooperDuper]

We have no idea what the trial will reveal. People can believe whatever they like or whatever they feel makes sense to them... I know I do.

Would you welcome DM into your family at this point? If you had a daughter, based on what you know about the guy, would you allow her to marry him?

This is what I am getting at when I ask about DM's integrity. Is he a good enough person that you would welcome him into your family with open arms?

 

[Tamarind]

Would you welcome DM into your family at this point? If you had a daughter, based on what you know about the guy, would you allow her to marry him?

This is what I am getting at when I ask about DM's integrity. Is he a good enough person that you would welcome him into your family with open arms?

I wouldn't welcome anyone into my family without getting to know them first, so I don't see how the question is relevant. I don't know anything about him other than what is in newspapers and blogs, so I have limited information to go on and that information is obviously biased IMO.

I wouldn't welcome someone who is judgmental and unable to wait for a trial before convicting someone, into my family or my personal space to be honest, but that's just me. If DM is a good person, lets hope it becomes apparent when trial is here. MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

I wouldn't welcome anyone into my family without getting to know them first, so I don't see how the question is relevant. I don't know anything about him other than what is in newspapers and blogs, so I have limited information to go on and that information is obviously biased IMO.

See, that doesn't make sense to me. If all we know about this person is negative things, why would you think positively of them as a result?

I wouldn't welcome someone who is judgmental and unable to wait for a trial before convicting someone, into my family or my personal space to be honest, but that's just me. If DM is a good person, lets hope it becomes apparent when trial is here. MOO

No private citizen is able to convict someone: that is a job for the state. We can only "hope" that DM is not what he appears to be, but sometimes you just have to call it as it is.

 

[Tamarind]

See, that doesn't make sense to me. If all we know about this person is negative things, why would you think positively of them as a result?

Simply because I choose to make my own decisions, opinions and beliefs based on what sits well with me. I don't need to be spoon fed what to believe or be brainwashed by media to be able to form my own opinion about something. Just as I never used to believe workplace gossip and chose to work for myself to avoid the negativity.

No private citizen is able to convict someone: that is a job for the state. We can only "hope" that DM is not what he appears to be, but sometimes you just have to call it as it is.

They can convict in their mind, and taint views if they keep repeating that someone is guilty. Not everyone has the willpower to ignore repeated calls for ''off with their heads", I will call it as it is (whichever way that may be) when I have had chance to weigh up any facts / evidence or lack of, at a trial. MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

Simply because I choose to make my own decisions, opinions and beliefs based on what sits well with me. I don't need to be spoon fed what to believe or be brainwashed by media to be able to form my own opinion about something. Just as I never used to believe workplace gossip and chose to work for myself to avoid the negativity.

We need other people to fact-check our own realities.

Although non-specific concepts of madness have been around for several thousand years, the psychiatrist and philosopher Karl Jaspers was the first to define the three main criteria for a belief to be considered delusional in his 1913 book General Psychopathology.[1] These criteria are:

certainty (held with absolute conviction)
incorrigibility (not changeable by compelling counterargument or proof to the contrary)
impossibility or falsity of content (implausible, bizarre or patently untrue)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusion

They can convict in their mind, and taint views if they keep repeating that someone is guilty. Not everyone has the willpower to ignore repeated calls for ''off with their heads", I will call it as it is (whichever way that may be) when I have had chance to weigh up any facts / evidence or lack of, at a trial. MOO

 

[Tamarind]

We need other people to fact-check our own realities.

No we don't.

Although non-specific concepts of madness have been around for several thousand years, the psychiatrist and philosopher Karl Jaspers was the first to define the three main criteria for a belief to be considered delusional in his 1913 book General Psychopathology.[1] These criteria are:

certainty (held with absolute conviction)
incorrigibility (not changeable by compelling counterargument or proof to the contrary)
impossibility or falsity of content (implausible, bizarre or patently untrue)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusion

I think the point is missed entirely, that's just my opinion of course.
But, no-one posting here who agrees with presuming innocence has ever claimed they are right with absolute conviction, on the contrary they have always stated that they presume innocence which basically clearly states that until such time as they may not presume innocence, that is their presumption.

I have a feeling that those wanting the death penalty for someone who has yet to have a fair trial will change their minds, even if another person confesses, but again that's my opinion.

Claiming that someone is delusional when they presume innocence of an untried accused is quite offensive in my opinion. I could claim same of those who wield pitchforks, but I am conscious of the outcome of attacking others like that on a public forum such as this.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I think the point is missed entirely, that's just my opinion of course.
But, no-one posting here who agrees with presuming innocence has ever claimed they are right with absolute conviction, on the contrary they have always stated that they presume innocence which basically clearly states that until such time as they may not presume innocence, that is their presumption.

I have a feeling that those wanting the death penalty for someone who has yet to have a fair trial will change their minds, even if another person confesses, but again that's my opinion.

Claiming that someone is delusional when they presume innocence of an untried accused is quite offensive in my opinion. I could claim same of those who wield pitchforks, but I am conscious of the outcome of attacking others like that on a public forum such as this.

There is NO death penalty in Canada! There hasn't been an execution in Canada since 1962.

 

[Sillybilly]

Stop the bickering back and forth about personal beliefs. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and belief and if it doesn't agree with yours, state your case (as everyone already has) and MOVE ON !! This constant petty bickering becomes tiresome to others and drives people away from the discussion.

:tyou:

 

[swedie]

I wonder if DM or MS or CN will eventually plead guilty to their charges before or during their trials? It does happen.

Interesting true crime story I'm reading right now, written by Ann Rule. Like DM, Joey Pedersen was accused of murdering his own father. He had murdered three other people, his stepmother who he didn't even know and two other victims he didn't know. DM is accused of two other murders besides his father; his ex lover LB and TB, DM had no connection to according to LE.

I see some similarities between the two cases/people. It'll be interesting to find out the motive for DM allegedly murdering his father. Some believe money was the driving force. In Joey's case, he claims it was because he was abused as a child. It will be quite interesting to eventually get facts on DM's early life to see what made him tick and turn into an allegedly serial killer. On the outside, he seemed to have his life paved out so easily and nicely for him, but for some warped reason in his head, he took risks knowing that he could eventually get caught and end up spending the rest of his life in prison. Wonder if he thinks the thrill it was all worth it now? You just never know what goes on inside psychopath/sociopaths' heads. ALL MOO.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2011/10/raised_in_chaos_david_joey_ped.html

 

[MsSherlock]

<modsnip>

IMO, it was clear from DP's first "Court House Steps Sermon" that DM was denying everything. DP even seemed to be an advocate for DM's outstanding character leading us to believe that DM was set up and would be quickly applying for bail. But DM has a nasty little habit of lying- when SL asked him about the calls to LB, he lied. He lied when he told senior/key Millardair employees that WM died from a bleed. He got kicked out of school for cheating. Chances are he lied when he spoke to AS about the state of his dad's finances. IMHO, it would defy logic to think that DM isn't lying thru his teeth now. DM is a pathological lier and chances are he'll continue to try to lie,deny and manipulate his way out of this little mess. Ain't gonna happen!! As for MS & MWJ- they're just losers who will probably accomplish more in jail than they ever would on the outside. MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

I wonder if DM or MS or CN will eventually plead guilty to their charges before or during their trials? It does happen.

Interesting true crime story I'm reading right now, written by Ann Rule. Like DM, Joey Pedersen was accused of murdering his own father. He had murdered three other people, his stepmother who he didn't even know and two other victims he didn't know. DM is accused of two other murders besides his father; his ex lover LB and TB, DM had no connection to according to LE.

I see some similarities between the two cases/people. It'll be interesting to find out the motive for DM allegedly murdering his father. Some believe money was the driving force. In Joey's case, he claims it was because he was abused as a child. It will be quite interesting to eventually get facts on DM's early life to see what made him tick and turn into an allegedly serial killer. On the outside, he seemed to have his life paved out so easily and nicely for him, but for some warped reason in his head, he took risks knowing that he could eventually get caught and end up spending the rest of his life in prison. Wonder if he thinks the thrill it was all worth it now? You just never know what goes on inside psychopath/sociopaths' heads. ALL MOO.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2011/10/raised_in_chaos_david_joey_ped.html

I'm not sure about that one, because JP had a lot of turmoil in his life early on and significantly more trouble with the law before he murdered.

I think Phillip Markoff https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Markoff is similar. PM found his victims on Craigslist. He came from a family with money and had a good education. He killed with a gun. He owned all the latest technology toys, and was undone by them.

 

[swedie]

<modsnip>

IMO, it was clear from DP's first "Court House Steps Sermon" that DM was denying everything. DP even seemed to be an advocate for DM's outstanding character leading us to believe that DM was set up and would be quickly applying for bail. But DM has a nasty little habit of lying- when SL asked him about the calls to LB, he lied. He lied when he told senior/key Millardair employees that WM died from a bleed. He got kicked out of school for cheating. Chances are he lied when he spoke to AS about the state of his dad's finances. IMHO, it would defy logic to think that DM isn't lying thru his teeth now. DM is a pathological lier and chances are he'll continue to try to lie,deny and manipulate his way out of this little mess. Ain't gonna happen!! As for MS & MWJ- they're just losers who will probably accomplish more in jail than they ever would on the outside. MOO

MsSherlock...can you prove DM lied? Might just be that everyone and their Great Aunt is lying. Everyone but DM and DP.

Makes no matter IMO who's lying and who's telling the truth because it will all come out during the trials (if there are any), and the evidence will speak for itself, the truth will be known as to who the murderer(s) is/are. The Crown may not even have to open their mouths...just show the evidence. But of course the Crown will speak, that would make for a pretty bizarre trial hehehe.

Has it every occurred to some folks that maybe some people just may know what some of that evidence against the accused is? I guess it's not a witch hunt or ready to walk someone to the gallows, or those wielding pitchforks at the charged then is it? And it wouldn't be just their opinions either would it?. It would be them trying to explaining the obvious without giving away the facts and evidence compromising the PB. I don't know if and who may know what the evidence is, but I can tell you one thing; these trials cannot come quick enough. I suppose the victims' loved ones feel the same way. As for the accused/charged, it may not really concern them too much as they likely know what their future looks like.

ALL MOO.

 

[Tamarind]

IMO, it was clear from DP's first "Court House Steps Sermon" that DM was denying everything. DP even seemed to be an advocate for DM's outstanding character leading us to believe that DM was set up and would be quickly applying for bail. But DM has a nasty little habit of lying- when SL asked him about the calls to LB, he lied. He lied when he told senior/key Millardair employees that WM died from a bleed. He got kicked out of school for cheating. Chances are he lied when he spoke to AS about the state of his dad's finances. IMHO, it would defy logic to think that DM isn't lying thru his teeth now. DM is a pathological lier and chances are he'll continue to try to lie,deny and manipulate his way out of this little mess. Ain't gonna happen!! As for MS & MWJ- they're just losers who will probably accomplish more in jail than they ever would on the outside. MOO

I believe he (DP) said he (DM) was 'not guilty'. Thats a much different thing than lying.

I also believe that anyone, not just DM would not say they had received numerous calls from someone if those calls were never answered. I never look to see how many times someone has called, I simply notice that I have missed a call or if I have in fact answered a call. So this is misleading and in my opinion is rumour mongering to say DM was lying. This has been addressed before several times here from what I can see.

We have no idea what DM was advised to say to employees - people sometimes feel uncomfortable to say suicide as it still carries a degree of stigma IMO.

Many kids help each other in school, it happens everywhere. Cheating does not make someone a murderer.

I don't see any chance that he lied about finances. MillardAir was obviously stretched financially IMO, it had just been involved in the building of a major hangar construction.

Where is the evidence/proof that DM is a pathological liar? Stating things that are unsubstantiated does not make them true

JMO MOO

It isn't logical in my opinion to create scenarios that don't exist, so I don't tend to take that route. I think the eventual facts and maybe some words from the accused will put all the rumours etc ( re lying/pathological ) to rest. But that JMO.