Laura Babcock Murder Trial 11.16.17 - Day 17

[JuneBug67]

I hear what you are saying, family should look out for one another. But I think Dr. Burns had pegged DM as a problem child very early on. DM even lived with his family for some time when he was younger. I personally respect his characterization of DM because he was the only one whole seemed to face the truth and was honest about it. Everyone else was in denial and completely negligent. As we now see, that didn’t help anything.

I don't think anybody would think that Burns has an obligation to look out for Millard at this point, but the over-the-top contempt is self serving to me. I had the same impression at the TB trial. He seemed furious and put out that he had been dragged into any of it and seemed to be taking absurd pains to let everybody know how much he hated his "technical" nephew. There was no trace of sadness or regret at the path his nephew had taken, only concern that he not be tainted by it. Certainly there is no concern for his sister's feelings, calling her only child's life useless and his thoughts drivel on the very public record. 2002 is when he stopped seeing DM for "altruistic reasons", as he previously described their relationship when DM was between 15-17. Asked about being at Maple Gate in 2012 he actually starts making a rather grandiose statement about not being involved in this tragic and diabolical affair. That's bizzarely egocentric. I understand Burns' feelings. I don't understand his corresponding lack of feelings, or his failure to reign it in and be a serious and sober witness. The best way to honour and serve the people lost in these tragedies is not likely to be acting in a way that gets you admonished from the judge. Witnesses who have been this contemptuous of the process and this self concerned in the past have rightly gotten panned by our peanut gallery. This guy gets cheered on? Ugh. The principle remains they same no matter who is testifying.

The overall impression I have had since the TB trial is that the narcissistic and self-absorbed DM didn't fall far from the narcissistic and self-absorbed family tree.

 

[Inspector_North]

So do we think Marlena is next up? You know he's going to cross her. I feel sorry for her.

I do too. But it does seem that SS and RB have had time to deal with their feelings. Be it fear or anger. Let's hope MM has had time to bring "herself" to the stand this time around. MOO

 

[Claroon]

Deer hunting season isn't in July, moron.

If there were dead deer, more likely from coyotes.

 

[Satchie]

If there were deer, more likely from coyotes.

Out in the Ontario countryside, in the summer, coyotes, vulture, etc would dispose of a deer carcass very quickly.

I have to say though, DM has a skill for coming up with semi-plausible lies and sticking with them, when another person might, over time, begin to see the holes in their story.

 

[Inspector_North]

If there were deer, more likely from coyotes.

I was an avid big game hunter, and I can tell you that coyotes would clean up a deer carcass in very short order. It is also very hard to find a dead deer unless you have other signs, like Turkey Vultures and/or Ravens gathering. Without these type of signs you would have to almost trip over the remains, as they are hard to find.

 

[Tealgrove]

Have to think RB warned the Crown if they called him again to testify he would be hostile - that's how I would feel in his shoes.

Imo, RB is a victim in this mess - still. It's so unfair he hasn't been able to move away from this yet - being kept on a string in the name of justice. I feel bad for him, his wife and children. None of them invited this in any way.

Hoping RB can be kept out of the WM trial, with an assurance now, that his testimony won't be required - that would allow him to somewhat start getting over his anger. My armchair assessment only. My fear is he will be called to testify on family relationships etc - he's done enough already.

I don't think he had to warn them. I'm sure they knew.

 

[inbetweendoors]

For those insterested, Burns Testimony from TB trial:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?302554-Bosma-Murder-Trial-03-10-16-Day-23/page8

Shannon Martin ‏@ShannonMartinTV 28s28 seconds ago Toronto, Ontario
During a separation of Millard's parents, his uncle cared for Dellen when he was 15 to 17 years old, on and off #Bosma

molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 18s18 seconds ago
Dubien was Burns's neighbour. He introduced Millard to him after he showed an interest in computers. #Bosma

Colin Butler ‏@ColinButlerCBC 51s51 seconds ago
Burns testified that he introduced Millard to Charles Dubian, a computer repairman and IT professional, who owned a shop near Burns' clinic

Burns says Millard contacted him about a "Mexican street dog" and he was concerned about parasites in the summer of 2012.
by Adam Carter 12:23 PM




Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

So...DM saw RB in July (?) 2012 about Pedo having parasites.
I also noted in MS's TB trial testimony that I was re-reading this morning that he said DM would abuse Pedo for peeing and pooping on his bed (which the judge quickly struck from the record).

What do you think the chances are that Pedo was having accidents on DMs bed due to perhaps poor health and that was the reason for the mattress replacement?

Just something to consider...

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

 

[Woodland]

I don't think anybody would think that Burns has an obligation to look out for Millard at this point, but the over-the-top contempt is self serving to me. I had the same impression at the TB trial. He seemed furious and put out that he had been dragged into any of it and seemed to be taking absurd pains to let everybody know how much he hated his "technical" nephew. There was no trace of sadness or regret at the path his nephew had taken, only concern that he not be tainted by it. Certainly there is no concern for his sister's feelings, calling her only child's life useless and his thoughts drivel on the very public record. 2002 is when he stopped seeing DM for "altruistic reasons", as he previously described their relationship when DM was between 15-17. Asked about being at Maple Gate in 2012 he actually starts making a rather grandiose statement about not being involved in this tragic and diabolical affair. That's bizzarely egocentric. I understand Burns' feelings. I don't understand his corresponding lack of feelings, or his failure to reign it in and be a serious and sober witness. The best way to honour and serve the people lost in these tragedies is not likely to be acting in a way that gets you admonished from the judge. Witnesses who have been this contemptuous of the process and this self concerned in the past have rightly gotten panned by our peanut gallery. This guy gets cheered on? Ugh. The principle remains they same no matter who is testifying.

The overall impression I have had since the TB trial is that the narcissistic and self-absorbed DM didn't fall far from the narcissistic and self-absorbed family tree.

Unfortunately, cannot agree with a single word here - have agreed with many of your thoughts, observations in the past though.

Imo one has to see RB as a victim and drawn into this mess and being kept in it 5 years on - and not a single action on his part invited this mess for him. Let the guy move on - he deserves that as far as I can see. Jmo.

 

[billandrew]

"Dr. Burns" would actually be quite fitting for pet cremation, wouldn't it?

But seriously, despite his heated temperament (no pun intended) on the stand today, the message he delivered is that he believes his nephew is capable of committing the acts he's accused of. It's a very strong message to the jury, IMO.

 

[MorningStar22]

Not the first time. Heck, what are they cooking?

I believe his tactic is to emphasize MS’ lack of involvement. He has no questions for any witness that had little to no involvement with MS, and no testimony about him.

It seems, to my unprofessional self, a more mature approach than to go up and ask “you never discussed this with my client?”, “you never spoke to my client?” etc., a la DM.

 

[Grey-St]

I don't think anybody would think that Burns has an obligation to look out for Millard at this point, but the over-the-top contempt is self serving to me. I had the same impression at the TB trial. He seemed furious and put out that he had been dragged into any of it and seemed to be taking absurd pains to let everybody know how much he hated his "technical" nephew. There was no trace of sadness or regret at the path his nephew had taken, only concern that he not be tainted by it. Certainly there is no concern for his sister's feelings, calling her only child's life useless and his thoughts drivel on the very public record. 2002 is when he stopped seeing DM for "altruistic reasons", as he previously described their relationship when DM was between 15-17. Asked about being at Maple Gate in 2012 he actually starts making a rather grandiose statement about not being involved in this tragic and diabolical affair. That's bizzarely egocentric. I understand Burns' feelings. I don't understand his corresponding lack of feelings, or his failure to reign it in and be a serious and sober witness. The best way to honour and serve the people lost in these tragedies is not likely to be acting in a way that gets you admonished from the judge. Witnesses who have been this contemptuous of the process and this self concerned in the past have rightly gotten panned by our peanut gallery. This guy gets cheered on? Ugh. The principle remains they same no matter who is testifying.

The overall impression I have had since the TB trial is that the narcissistic and self-absorbed DM didn't fall far from the narcissistic and self-absorbed family tree.

I’m not going to lie, you make some fine points.

I certainly understand his anger. I’m going to bet he feels deep frustration and resentment over the fact that he probably had DM all figured out very early on, and probably voiced his concerns with his family, most importantly his sister. To then watch DM continue to fool people throughout young adulthood, only fueled this. Then to have DM contact his daughter from jail? Maddening.

I agree however that his performance on the stand and the notion that he has been so deeply inconvenienced by all of this, is disrespectful to the victims and their families.

 

[zencompass]

I have been looking into the issue of "grommets" since it has been mentioned a few times.

The grommets used in tarps and sailcloth I have do not have any markings identifying the company brand.

The grommets on my jackets and other clothing all identify the company. They all have the particular brand of clothing or apparel "stamped" on them.

I am hoping that there may still be an "identifying brand" mark on the grommets from the incinerator.

Just thinking out loud (and checking all of my grommets!)

 

[andreww]

So do we think Marlena is next up? You know he's going to cross her. I feel sorry for her.

I was at the court at lunch and didn't see her. She could have been with lawyers though.

 

[winter2017]

The Uncle has raised some very accomplished children one being a dr. I feel very sorry for him being dragged into this.
It must be horrible to have to not be able to move on, hopefully after this trial he can.
I think personally DM suffered a form of child abuse. I have said he was a product of bad parenting and that means letting him do anything he wanted and being very spoiled, is a form of neglect and that is child abuse.
The parents were responsible to teach him and set boundaries that will help him become a functional adult.
I don't think they did it and allowed him to have anything he wanted. That is a form of neglect.
They did not intentionally plan to do harm to him , they had problems of their own, at least things I have read.
<modsnip>
They were so dysfunctional themselves that they could not be good parents.
Child abuse can cause mental problems and DM has mental problems.

 

[Claroon]

Has the date of SS's visit to the barn to refill the propane been sorted out? It's now been confirmed that the Croatia trip was in August of 2012, and that would mean something was possibly stinking in the SN500 for a month. Was DM back in Canada when he asked him to refill? I would assume so since it was for "another" deer shot by hunters in August [shake head], and how would he know from Europe?

Well he didn't say "all of August" just "most of August" and dates weren't confirmed

Good afternoon Robert, Millard starts. Asking about summer of 2012, and the Euro trip that his son and daughter were taking. Son going back to medical school, "and I joined them on their European trip," #Millard says, and Burns agrees. It was actually most of Aug, Millard says

"Perhaps," it was most of August, Burns says.

 

[Sillybilly]

I&#8217;m not going to lie, you make some fine points.

I certainly understand his anger. I&#8217;m going to bet he feels deep frustration and resentment over the fact that he probably had DM all figured out very early on, and probably voiced his concerns with his family, most importantly his sister. To then watch DM continue to fool people throughout young adulthood, only fueled this. Then to have DM contact his daughter from jail? Maddening.

I agree however that his performance on the stand and the notion that he has been so deeply inconvenienced by all of this, is disrespectful to the victims and their families.

IMO, Dr. Burns' anger is fuelled not so much by publicity or inconvenience to him or his family, but moreso from his more intimate knowledge of DM as an individual, his prior relationship with DM, and in knowing what the jury may not know ... that not only is his nephew currently on trial for Laura's murder, but has already been found guilty for the incinerator death of Tim Bosma and will face trial in the death of his own father.

IMO, Dr. Burns' thoughts are with the victims and their families, and he wants so badly to see his nephew brought to justice for each and every one of the victims that DM is accused of killing.

Could be wrong (it's happened before )

 

[Typhoo1961]

Does he not realize deer hunters take their meat?

They do indeed. My good friend in Arkansas recently sent me photos of the 2 deer they got. Huge amount of meat!

 

[Satchie]

I’m not going to lie, you make some fine points.

I certainly understand his anger. I’m going to bet he feels deep frustration and resentment over the fact that he probably had DM all figured out very early on, and probably voiced his concerns with his family, most importantly his sister. To then watch DM continue to fool people throughout young adulthood, only fueled this. Then to have DM contact his daughter from jail? Maddening.

I agree however that his performance on the stand and the notion that he has been so deeply inconvenienced by all of this, is disrespectful to the victims and their families.

True, except I can't believe RB, or anybody in the family, or other people associated with DM, thought/anticipated that DM was going to or was murdering people.

We all have lots of drama in our lives, work, friends, families, about who said or did what, about values and norms and who is a success or failure, but never, ever, does the suspicion that someone in our family like DM (or MS) is a murderer ever come into our heads!

 

[JuneBug67]

I&#8217;m not going to lie, you make some fine points.

I certainly understand his anger. I&#8217;m going to bet he feels deep frustration and resentment over the fact that he probably had DM all figured out very early on, and probably voiced his concerns with his family, most importantly his sister. To then watch DM continue to fool people throughout young adulthood, only fueled this. Then to have DM contact his daughter from jail? Maddening.

I agree however that his performance on the stand and the notion that he has been so deeply inconvenienced by all of this, is disrespectful to the victims and their families.

I agree with all of this. Thanks for taking the time to consider my unpopular point.

 

[Typhoo1961]

Hoping RB can be kept out of the WM trial, with an assurance now, that his testimony won't be required - that would allow him to somewhat start getting over his anger. My armchair assessment only. My fear is he will be called to testify on family relationships etc - he's done enough already.

I don't see RB testifying at the WM trial but I do see MB testifying at it. She has to as she was quite involved in that one.